Forums » Suggestions
I was thinking about all the weapons within VO and just started wandering off in thoughtand ended up thinking, "hey i wonder if any one would like the idea of a "sniper rifle" so to speak." So yeah hows about some type of sniper rifle? Something with a very very high velocity, no auto aim, high damage, high range, high battery consumpsion, large port, MKI you can get around lvl 4 or 5 heavy weapons and combat (4,-,4,-,-) or (5,-,5,-,-)
Feedback?
Feedback?
It's called the Rail Gun.
Name: (S) Rail Gun
Fires high-velocity xithricite rounds
Damage: 1400
Velocity: 400
Energy: 110/blast
Delay: 1.6s
Ammo: 48mm Xithricite
Capacity: 30 rounds
Mass: 800 kg
Volume: 1 cu
Extra Info: No auto-targeting
Name: (S) Rail Gun
Fires high-velocity xithricite rounds
Damage: 1400
Velocity: 400
Energy: 110/blast
Delay: 1.6s
Ammo: 48mm Xithricite
Capacity: 30 rounds
Mass: 800 kg
Volume: 1 cu
Extra Info: No auto-targeting
also
Name: (S) Rail Gun mk II
Fires high-velocity xith rounds
Damage: 1400
Velocity: 400
Energy: 100/blast
Delay: 1.8s
Ammo: 48mm Xithricite
Capacity: 30 rounds
Mass: 900 kg
Volume: 1 cu
Extra Info: No auto-targeting
And
Name: (S) Rail Gun mk III
Fires high-velocity xith rounds
Damage: 1600
Velocity: 400
Energy: 110/blast
Delay: 1.6s
Ammo: 48mm Xithricite
Capacity: 30 rounds
Mass: 800 kg
Volume: 1 cu
Extra Info: No auto-targeting
Name: (S) Rail Gun mk II
Fires high-velocity xith rounds
Damage: 1400
Velocity: 400
Energy: 100/blast
Delay: 1.8s
Ammo: 48mm Xithricite
Capacity: 30 rounds
Mass: 900 kg
Volume: 1 cu
Extra Info: No auto-targeting
And
Name: (S) Rail Gun mk III
Fires high-velocity xith rounds
Damage: 1600
Velocity: 400
Energy: 110/blast
Delay: 1.6s
Ammo: 48mm Xithricite
Capacity: 30 rounds
Mass: 800 kg
Volume: 1 cu
Extra Info: No auto-targeting
yeah i realize the rail gun is there but im talking a gun with like 600-700 velocity
Viper2560: The problem is that such a gun would not likely be used as a sniper weapon. If you make a weapon accurate at a great distance with velocity alone, it will be even more accurate at shorter range. I'm not saying the problem is impossible - I have some ideas about what might work - but merely making a gun fast is a problem.
If it has a massive cooldown (e.g., 15-30 seconds), it could be be balanced.
if it had a velocity of 600-700 i'd suggest it should be a L slot weapon. This should keep it on ships that dont fare too well close up.
myko is correct. That is one of the things which would have to be true.
As for the 15-30 second cooldown, before such a weapon would be useful it would have to be able to destroy a significant portion of the target's hull in a single hit to be useful at all. But, such a one diminsional first-strike weapon is likely to create alot of problems because the target can't do alot about it. Either the weapon hits or it doesn't, and that's all up to the guy pulling the trigger.
As for the 15-30 second cooldown, before such a weapon would be useful it would have to be able to destroy a significant portion of the target's hull in a single hit to be useful at all. But, such a one diminsional first-strike weapon is likely to create alot of problems because the target can't do alot about it. Either the weapon hits or it doesn't, and that's all up to the guy pulling the trigger.
Charged Railgun?
Even if it went 1000 m/s, a shot from 3 km would take 3 seconds to reach its target. That's a lot of time for dodging.
Yes, but a shot from 150m would take .15s to reach its target. That's not a lot of time for dodging. In fact, at that range its almost to the point that the target is effectively not moving during the travel time.
How many times do I have to say that the problem with really fast weapons is not how they work at long ranges, but how they work at ranges we currently use?
How many times do I have to say that the problem with really fast weapons is not how they work at long ranges, but how they work at ranges we currently use?
"How many times do I have to say"
Ok Mommy, I'll take my muddy shoes off next time! Please just dont hit me again!
Ok Mommy, I'll take my muddy shoes off next time! Please just dont hit me again!
There could be a minimun distance from the player it is being used on or a mininum distance from all players.
Also, if it was to have a charge (as mentioned earlier), starting the charge will send out a pulse that notifies all players in the area that somebody is charging a sniper (but it will not tell who that person is).
that would defeat the purpose of using a sniper style weapon.
I've been trying to not post at length but, ok.
I agree with harvestmouse. One way to do this is have something like a 'charged' railgun, except for it to work, it must charge velocity as well as damage and it must have a minimum charge (or it doesn't fire at all).
But there are lots of other ways to do things.
I've thought along time about the 'minimum distance' weapon, however, I've yet to hear an implementation that I really like. One way to do this is have a really fast 'torpedo' that doesn't arm until it gets to say 300m. Before that time, getting hit by the torpedo is a dud that does minimal damage. After that time, getting hit results in a big boom. The big problem with this implementation is suspension of disbelief issues. If we can make a rocket go 300m/s, why can't we make all the rockets go 300m/s? I've always considered it a can of worms not worth opening.
Another possibility is to have fast guided weapons. A fast guided weapon wouldn't need to be as fast as a fast unguided weapon in order to be accurate. On the other hand, a fast unguided weapon takes no skill to use. 'Smart weapons' make for dumb games. The best way to handle this I think is to make the weapon insanely unmanueverable and maybe give it a small proximity fuse. The general idea being that if you dodge at the last moment, you are pretty much safe. But, this is the sort of thing you have to implement and try out before you know if it works the way you want it too.
Another possibility is the 'drone' concept - a weapon which starts out kinda slow but starts accellerating just like a ship The problem here though is that since it does start out slow, any sort of manueverable craft can get out of the way long before it gets fast enough to be really dangerous. Guided versions are likely to be little different than the fast guided munitions above. Unguided versions still require an unaware target and insanely good aim. In the case of fighter weapons, basically we are talking about only slightly longer range than equivalent non-accelerating weapons. Still, this gives us some 'medium ranged' weapon ideas - small accelerating rockets and the like.
Another possibility is 'sand paper' weapons, so named because they can hit consistantly and often, but only take off a very small ammount of hull with each shot. Such weapons are fair if the target can successfully close with an opponent using 'sand paper' weapon, and quickly even things up with several well placed shots with a heavier weapon. For example, the advanced gatling is something of a 'sand paper' weapon, but whereas the advanced gatling is mostly good at 'knife fighting' the sort of weapons I envision would be true 'saber dancing' weapons with railgun like auto-aim arcs and velocity (and very very low damage per shot). The nice thing about 'sand paper' weapons is that if they prove too strong, I know the perfect scissors to counter them.
'funny' weapons which do something other than damage the target could possibly be quite fast as well.
Another possibility is a weapon which changes characteristics in flight. For example, a two stage rocket which starts out as a fast unguided weapon, but then switches over to being a slower guided weapon when it gets near the target. It might only be good for long range harrassment, but we don't even have that at present.
The last thing you have to take into account is whether we even should implement sniper weapons for fighters. The idea that good sniper weapons ought to be limited to less agile ships is a very good one, but as long as we are thinking along those lines its worth pointing out that maybe we should limit really standoff weapons to capital ships (or at least rather big ships) entirely The idea here is that maybe we should think of fighters as being something like light infantry, and capital ships as something like artillery that they must defend. We have to be careful in designing sniper weapons that we don't squeeze design space out of capital ship weaponry. Afterall, if you could just sit back in a small fighter and snipe at things from several kilometers away why would you bother building capital ships at all?
I agree with harvestmouse. One way to do this is have something like a 'charged' railgun, except for it to work, it must charge velocity as well as damage and it must have a minimum charge (or it doesn't fire at all).
But there are lots of other ways to do things.
I've thought along time about the 'minimum distance' weapon, however, I've yet to hear an implementation that I really like. One way to do this is have a really fast 'torpedo' that doesn't arm until it gets to say 300m. Before that time, getting hit by the torpedo is a dud that does minimal damage. After that time, getting hit results in a big boom. The big problem with this implementation is suspension of disbelief issues. If we can make a rocket go 300m/s, why can't we make all the rockets go 300m/s? I've always considered it a can of worms not worth opening.
Another possibility is to have fast guided weapons. A fast guided weapon wouldn't need to be as fast as a fast unguided weapon in order to be accurate. On the other hand, a fast unguided weapon takes no skill to use. 'Smart weapons' make for dumb games. The best way to handle this I think is to make the weapon insanely unmanueverable and maybe give it a small proximity fuse. The general idea being that if you dodge at the last moment, you are pretty much safe. But, this is the sort of thing you have to implement and try out before you know if it works the way you want it too.
Another possibility is the 'drone' concept - a weapon which starts out kinda slow but starts accellerating just like a ship The problem here though is that since it does start out slow, any sort of manueverable craft can get out of the way long before it gets fast enough to be really dangerous. Guided versions are likely to be little different than the fast guided munitions above. Unguided versions still require an unaware target and insanely good aim. In the case of fighter weapons, basically we are talking about only slightly longer range than equivalent non-accelerating weapons. Still, this gives us some 'medium ranged' weapon ideas - small accelerating rockets and the like.
Another possibility is 'sand paper' weapons, so named because they can hit consistantly and often, but only take off a very small ammount of hull with each shot. Such weapons are fair if the target can successfully close with an opponent using 'sand paper' weapon, and quickly even things up with several well placed shots with a heavier weapon. For example, the advanced gatling is something of a 'sand paper' weapon, but whereas the advanced gatling is mostly good at 'knife fighting' the sort of weapons I envision would be true 'saber dancing' weapons with railgun like auto-aim arcs and velocity (and very very low damage per shot). The nice thing about 'sand paper' weapons is that if they prove too strong, I know the perfect scissors to counter them.
'funny' weapons which do something other than damage the target could possibly be quite fast as well.
Another possibility is a weapon which changes characteristics in flight. For example, a two stage rocket which starts out as a fast unguided weapon, but then switches over to being a slower guided weapon when it gets near the target. It might only be good for long range harrassment, but we don't even have that at present.
The last thing you have to take into account is whether we even should implement sniper weapons for fighters. The idea that good sniper weapons ought to be limited to less agile ships is a very good one, but as long as we are thinking along those lines its worth pointing out that maybe we should limit really standoff weapons to capital ships (or at least rather big ships) entirely The idea here is that maybe we should think of fighters as being something like light infantry, and capital ships as something like artillery that they must defend. We have to be careful in designing sniper weapons that we don't squeeze design space out of capital ship weaponry. Afterall, if you could just sit back in a small fighter and snipe at things from several kilometers away why would you bother building capital ships at all?
So basically you want a weapon, that you can use to kill other people easily, without ever giving up your position or having any weakness?
Great Idea, THUPER!
Great Idea, THUPER!
@Celebrim
I like your all of your possibilities, they all have there merits in one form or the other. As it pertains to sniper style weapons, I still think that they should be long range, non-auto targeting, high velocity, high damage.
To make it so that they can not fire rapidly, put a large recoil on the weapon, say 5sec and drains your battery completely. At the same time, perhaps the weapon should take up more then one weapons slot designating the ship that has it equiped a sniper, and have little else to defend it's self. Also increase the weight of the ammo or weapon or both making the sniper a slow vessel, even if it's in a valk/porm/vult/hog.
If you look at it from a real snipers point of view, it's suppost to be a one shot one kill style weapon. If they miss there shot they better run. Snipers can be solo but are much better utilized in a group situation that allows them to have backup when needed. This weapon style should not be something that you just fly around with to kill everyone, it's very specialized for certain styles of combat such as ambushes, assasinations, and long-range combat in a large battle situation.
I dont' think that adding a sniper style weapon would take away from the capital ships arsenal. Capital Ship weapons will be many times stronger, faster and more destructive then anything that an "infantry" style ship can ever have, all the numbers just need to be increast proportionally to match the cap ships.
I like your all of your possibilities, they all have there merits in one form or the other. As it pertains to sniper style weapons, I still think that they should be long range, non-auto targeting, high velocity, high damage.
To make it so that they can not fire rapidly, put a large recoil on the weapon, say 5sec and drains your battery completely. At the same time, perhaps the weapon should take up more then one weapons slot designating the ship that has it equiped a sniper, and have little else to defend it's self. Also increase the weight of the ammo or weapon or both making the sniper a slow vessel, even if it's in a valk/porm/vult/hog.
If you look at it from a real snipers point of view, it's suppost to be a one shot one kill style weapon. If they miss there shot they better run. Snipers can be solo but are much better utilized in a group situation that allows them to have backup when needed. This weapon style should not be something that you just fly around with to kill everyone, it's very specialized for certain styles of combat such as ambushes, assasinations, and long-range combat in a large battle situation.
I dont' think that adding a sniper style weapon would take away from the capital ships arsenal. Capital Ship weapons will be many times stronger, faster and more destructive then anything that an "infantry" style ship can ever have, all the numbers just need to be increast proportionally to match the cap ships.
"Yes, but a shot from 150m would take .15s to reach its target. That's not a lot of time for dodging. In fact, at that range its almost to the point that the target is effectively not moving during the travel time."
Sure, but letting someone potentially hostile within 150 m of you is a bad idea, anyway...
Sure, but letting someone potentially hostile within 150 m of you is a bad idea, anyway...
why not make it a energy weopon with a static core. the gun takes up both L and a S slot it does 2000 damage at 500m. 4000 at 1000m and so on. it traveles at 700m/s
now for the 150 m = instant hit.
when fired it takes at least 300 m to start charging. and it takes 200 m just to reach full power. not only that but when the gun is fired, it pushes the ship fireing it 700m/s BACKWARD and rotate 1º in ither left up down or right per 50m so that the ship totaly loses sight of the target. it also requires a full load of power JUST LIKE A WORM HOLE. if fired WITHOUT FULL POWER IT ONLY DOES 10% of original damage so at 500m it would only do 20 damage, not what i call a devastating blow. it also has a limited aim. (5 shots).
so in other words. when you shoot this you get BLASTED AWAY, if you have something behind you and you hit it BOOM you dies, s it can only be used in and oped space, next you have to ZOOM because the is no aim, at all, all you see is a box for you targert. you lose all energy, and you get spun into oblivian. (mk1 and mk2 have less recoil because they have better desin. (mk1 =500 recoil and .75º and mk 2 is 300 recoil with .25º)
now for the 150 m = instant hit.
when fired it takes at least 300 m to start charging. and it takes 200 m just to reach full power. not only that but when the gun is fired, it pushes the ship fireing it 700m/s BACKWARD and rotate 1º in ither left up down or right per 50m so that the ship totaly loses sight of the target. it also requires a full load of power JUST LIKE A WORM HOLE. if fired WITHOUT FULL POWER IT ONLY DOES 10% of original damage so at 500m it would only do 20 damage, not what i call a devastating blow. it also has a limited aim. (5 shots).
so in other words. when you shoot this you get BLASTED AWAY, if you have something behind you and you hit it BOOM you dies, s it can only be used in and oped space, next you have to ZOOM because the is no aim, at all, all you see is a box for you targert. you lose all energy, and you get spun into oblivian. (mk1 and mk2 have less recoil because they have better desin. (mk1 =500 recoil and .75º and mk 2 is 300 recoil with .25º)