Forums » Suggestions
A simple solution to the issues with high damage, high speed weapons would be to limit the amunition capacity, increase mass and reduce cycle time:
Name: (S) Corvus Upgraded Rail Gun
Fires ultra high-velocity armor piercing xith rounds
Damage: 2400
Velocity: 800
Energy: 180/blast
Delay: 2.4s
Ammo: 32mm Xithricite
Capacity: 4 rounds
Mass: 2400 kg
Volume: 1 cu
Extra Info: No auto-targeting
Hard to use at close range due to high mass and low repeat rate, but deadly against a running or charging foe at medium to long ranges. Plus it would be eay to add within the current engine.
Name: (S) Corvus Upgraded Rail Gun
Fires ultra high-velocity armor piercing xith rounds
Damage: 2400
Velocity: 800
Energy: 180/blast
Delay: 2.4s
Ammo: 32mm Xithricite
Capacity: 4 rounds
Mass: 2400 kg
Volume: 1 cu
Extra Info: No auto-targeting
Hard to use at close range due to high mass and low repeat rate, but deadly against a running or charging foe at medium to long ranges. Plus it would be eay to add within the current engine.
I like that a LOT Knight!! especially the off axis spin and backwards movement from recoil!!!
simon: Are you crazy!?!? It's much harder to aim with high mass ships! Trying to hit somebody who's turboing away 600m in the distance would be impossible with a 2400kg railugn!
Knight: Instakill weapons = Unbalanced = Useless = Not Fun.
Knight: Instakill weapons = Unbalanced = Useless = Not Fun.
johnhaw1218: I don't know who first came up with the idea of recoil, but a quick check of the search finds an entry in July 2003 in which Phaserlight tiredly mentions that its a frequently repeated idea. In any event, we've argued about the actual effects before. On a slow cycling weapon I doubt that the practical effects of recall will be all that much. The main purpose would seem to be reducing the weapons effectiveness in chasing targets. It's actaul impact on sniping is pretty low. Heck, sending the firing vessel rocketing backward might actually be a _benifit_ to a sniper.
The rest of Knight's attempts at nerfs have been argued over before as well. I agree with rogue. There just isn't a point. Extreme things are called unbalancing for a reason, and heaping minor annoyances on them is not necessarily going to end up with a balanced weapon.
This is completely easy to explain to someone who plays Magic the Gathering. I'm not sure how easy it will be to explain otherwise, but... Suppose you come up with an extremely powerful effect. If the effect is powerful enough to be 'broken', at any casting cost which is fair for the effective, the card is too expensive to be used in a competitive deck. On the other hand, undercost that card (or provide a way to get around the cc) and you have broken the meta-game. Hense, there are some effects for which there is no good cost.
The rest of Knight's attempts at nerfs have been argued over before as well. I agree with rogue. There just isn't a point. Extreme things are called unbalancing for a reason, and heaping minor annoyances on them is not necessarily going to end up with a balanced weapon.
This is completely easy to explain to someone who plays Magic the Gathering. I'm not sure how easy it will be to explain otherwise, but... Suppose you come up with an extremely powerful effect. If the effect is powerful enough to be 'broken', at any casting cost which is fair for the effective, the card is too expensive to be used in a competitive deck. On the other hand, undercost that card (or provide a way to get around the cc) and you have broken the meta-game. Hense, there are some effects for which there is no good cost.
"_Sure, but letting someone potentially hostile within 150 m of you is a bad idea, anyway... _"
Tyrdium: are you playing the same game as the rest of us? Most of vendetta combat takes place in the 150-200m range.
Tyrdium: are you playing the same game as the rest of us? Most of vendetta combat takes place in the 150-200m range.
"Tyrdium: are you playing the same game as the rest of us? Most of vendetta combat takes place in the 150-200m range."
Blah, sorry, that's not what I meant. If I'm trading and I see someone coming towards me, I'm going to run. Quickly. As for close-quarters combat, that could be lessened by giving it a huge delay and low ammo capacity (and perhaps high mass). It'd be a good weapon, just very hard to balance.
And no, I'm playing Shattered Galaxy and World of Warcraft. ;-)
Blah, sorry, that's not what I meant. If I'm trading and I see someone coming towards me, I'm going to run. Quickly. As for close-quarters combat, that could be lessened by giving it a huge delay and low ammo capacity (and perhaps high mass). It'd be a good weapon, just very hard to balance.
And no, I'm playing Shattered Galaxy and World of Warcraft. ;-)
nice...this is exacally what i wanted, many ideas from all over.
Its all seeming to come together too.
A sniper style weapon is going to have its advantages and disadvantages so dont make it so pitiful that its gunna be absolutly useless at close range. and a recoil affect does seem right just dont make it blow u 2000m backwards...Energy or ammo should b argued about though. If ammo its gotta be heavy. If energy, then its gotta be a almost complete drain, but do maximum damage.
Its all seeming to come together too.
A sniper style weapon is going to have its advantages and disadvantages so dont make it so pitiful that its gunna be absolutly useless at close range. and a recoil affect does seem right just dont make it blow u 2000m backwards...Energy or ammo should b argued about though. If ammo its gotta be heavy. If energy, then its gotta be a almost complete drain, but do maximum damage.
Sniper weapon is a perfect idea. It should be used from beyond the radar range (more than 3000m) against somebody who is camping near wormholes. The time between pulling the trigger and a shot may be long enough to prevent it from using at short distances, but the velocity of charge and its power should be significant to make it usefull at long range.
Current rail gun is too slow to be usefull.
Current rail gun is too slow to be usefull.
zhuk: Again, you want a weapon that no one can be prepared for, that will instantly kill them. There is no place for a weapon like that.
Furthermore, if you've ever used rails, you'll realize that they're plenty bloody fast, could you elaborate on why they're too slow to be useful? Cuz I've been using them and fighting against them a fair amount recently.
Furthermore, if you've ever used rails, you'll realize that they're plenty bloody fast, could you elaborate on why they're too slow to be useful? Cuz I've been using them and fighting against them a fair amount recently.
well I played around with the rail gun a bit last night and all I could tell was that it sucks. For the amount of acuracy that you have to have for the amount of damage and delay between shots, it's pretty much useless. Either make it stronger or make it shot faster (not velocity).
lol. Amarus and tramshed have been using them to great effect for the last few days, they take a LOT of practice, but they can be very strong.
Rails are plenty powerful if you know what you are doing. The only real problem with the current ones is that they are two energy hungry to use in multiples. A single rail just doesn't provide enough deterence. You need two or three or (god help you) even four of them to get the best effect. There was a time before they were nerfed when rails were the dominate weapon in the game. The nerf consisted almost entirely of increasing the energy, so there is no need to play with any other numbers.
Shapenaji:
"Again, you want a weapon that no one can be prepared for, that will instantly kill them."
Yes, this is how sniping works. You see target, target do not see you. It would require some patiense since you need to wait until camper stop moving for few seconds to make an accurate shot from X000 meters. If you miss a shot you better run or you dead, since you are armless at close distance. I did not get, why is it bad?
What distance can you successfuly use current rails from?
"Again, you want a weapon that no one can be prepared for, that will instantly kill them."
Yes, this is how sniping works. You see target, target do not see you. It would require some patiense since you need to wait until camper stop moving for few seconds to make an accurate shot from X000 meters. If you miss a shot you better run or you dead, since you are armless at close distance. I did not get, why is it bad?
What distance can you successfuly use current rails from?
"What distance can you successfuly use current rails from?"
Arolte once pegged me on the run with a quad-rail from greater than 900m.
I once killed a player in midflight with a pair of sunflares from around 1000m. (Hint: Don't run straight toward the nearest dock or you might find something waiting for you about the time you get there.)
"Yes, this is how sniping works."
Generally speaking, most combat a combat infantryman is likely to experience will occur at about 100-150 yards. If he's a professional, he'll probably be reasonably accurate with his weapon out to about 400 yards. A sniper is a specialist who takes shots from about 400 yards out to about 800 yards as a practical extreme range (though kills out to much further have been recorded with specialized weapons). My point being that a sniper in the real world is only engaging the target at about twice the normal range of more generalized combat troops and does so at considerable risk. In both cases, one shot can be expected to be lethal. For reasons I can't fathom, you think it would be cool to have a weapon that lets you engage a target at 20 times the usual range, do 20 times the normal damage, and incur no risk.
"I did not get, why is it bad?"
If you don't get it at this point, I can't explain it to you.
Arolte once pegged me on the run with a quad-rail from greater than 900m.
I once killed a player in midflight with a pair of sunflares from around 1000m. (Hint: Don't run straight toward the nearest dock or you might find something waiting for you about the time you get there.)
"Yes, this is how sniping works."
Generally speaking, most combat a combat infantryman is likely to experience will occur at about 100-150 yards. If he's a professional, he'll probably be reasonably accurate with his weapon out to about 400 yards. A sniper is a specialist who takes shots from about 400 yards out to about 800 yards as a practical extreme range (though kills out to much further have been recorded with specialized weapons). My point being that a sniper in the real world is only engaging the target at about twice the normal range of more generalized combat troops and does so at considerable risk. In both cases, one shot can be expected to be lethal. For reasons I can't fathom, you think it would be cool to have a weapon that lets you engage a target at 20 times the usual range, do 20 times the normal damage, and incur no risk.
"I did not get, why is it bad?"
If you don't get it at this point, I can't explain it to you.
"If you don't get it at this point, I can't explain it to you."
Faire enough, I did not ask you to do that.
Faire enough, I did not ask you to do that.
Yeah bt see the point of a sniper weapon would be to kill someone in one hit. But usually you can only get off one shot. Maybe if you get lucky and the person doesnt spot you right after the shot wizzes by them you can get off a second shot. But thats the fun and risk of being a sniper. You've got one shot and almost no possibility of a second chance. It's gunna take some serious skill to be able to hit someone who can move in an infinant three demensions. If you are even the slightest bit off target ur pretty much skrewed unless u can run like hell outta there. Because this is gunna be so hard to hit someone i dont think it could be used as an "uber weapon" that can kill anyone long or close range.
After reading this whole thread, I have come to the conclusion that you all want to make it easer to kill or not be killed, just matters which side of the frence your on.
1. This is not a FPS game PVP yes, you can't hide behine a tree bush or hide in a window to kill any one, we play in space.
What I see in the game and here is people not willing to find out what each weapon in the game can or will do for them or how they work in each ship, I have tryed every large weapon and most every small, with just about every ship combo I can , and found that if you put the right weapon and ship together, you can have lots of fun, you need to take the time to work on your skill not make things easer.
This is a space enviroment, everything effects how missiles/lasers/plasma/projectials and rail guns fire and react, it is called Gravity, that is where the skill comes in, learning the weapon and how it will work or better yet how you can make it work for you, durning Beta all I used was missiles, and thats all, when game went live I had to force myself to use Beams type weapons, I like both type, in closing Learn what your Weapons can do for you and Hone your SKILLS in each and don't relay on just being able to use just 1 type of weapon.
And to help with Q/A I have +700 faction with all but 3 nations, so ships and weapons I have tryed all.
kills 4800+ deaths 133 so I have died lots trying out the differnt combos, and I had fun doing it.
People just want it given to them these days, and not work for it.
and if I get flamed than you must be one of the give it to me gang, lol
Syberfly Out, I live for the One, I die for the One.
1. This is not a FPS game PVP yes, you can't hide behine a tree bush or hide in a window to kill any one, we play in space.
What I see in the game and here is people not willing to find out what each weapon in the game can or will do for them or how they work in each ship, I have tryed every large weapon and most every small, with just about every ship combo I can , and found that if you put the right weapon and ship together, you can have lots of fun, you need to take the time to work on your skill not make things easer.
This is a space enviroment, everything effects how missiles/lasers/plasma/projectials and rail guns fire and react, it is called Gravity, that is where the skill comes in, learning the weapon and how it will work or better yet how you can make it work for you, durning Beta all I used was missiles, and thats all, when game went live I had to force myself to use Beams type weapons, I like both type, in closing Learn what your Weapons can do for you and Hone your SKILLS in each and don't relay on just being able to use just 1 type of weapon.
And to help with Q/A I have +700 faction with all but 3 nations, so ships and weapons I have tryed all.
kills 4800+ deaths 133 so I have died lots trying out the differnt combos, and I had fun doing it.
People just want it given to them these days, and not work for it.
and if I get flamed than you must be one of the give it to me gang, lol
Syberfly Out, I live for the One, I die for the One.
Alastair Reynolds in his book 'Absolution Gap' introduces the concept of relativistic weapons. The specific one I'm thinking of he calls a 'hypometric weapon'. It would need to be a L port weapon, as he describes it as 'moving in a shaft, a corkscrewing, meshing, interleaving gyre of myriad silver blades'. It has to be spun up to fire once, 'As the weapon rotated up to speed, it became a silent columnar blur of moving parts, a glittering whirlwind.'
The faster the rotation, the more power it requires, and the further it's effect will be projected, and the larger it's 'damage sphere' will be. What it actually does in the book probably wouldn't work too well in VO, at it makes a sphere of space/time wink out of existance....
One other side effect of the weapon is it's unpredictability - the nearer to the weapon you try to aim it, the more unpredictable it becomes (meaning it might end up winking /you/ out of existance!), but the further the distance, the more predictable the results. This might deal with the concern about a high velocity weapon being used at short distances.
Perhaps something along these lines would work for the 'sniper weapon' idea?
The faster the rotation, the more power it requires, and the further it's effect will be projected, and the larger it's 'damage sphere' will be. What it actually does in the book probably wouldn't work too well in VO, at it makes a sphere of space/time wink out of existance....
One other side effect of the weapon is it's unpredictability - the nearer to the weapon you try to aim it, the more unpredictable it becomes (meaning it might end up winking /you/ out of existance!), but the further the distance, the more predictable the results. This might deal with the concern about a high velocity weapon being used at short distances.
Perhaps something along these lines would work for the 'sniper weapon' idea?
Name: (S) The Eliminator
Kills people in 1 shot
Damage: 10000
Velocity: ~c
Energy: 550/blast
Delay: N/A
Ammo: 400mm Xithricite
Capacity: 1 rounds
Mass: 3000 kg
Volume: 1 cu
Extra Info: No auto-targeting
I think this is what everybody wants... the golden gun. you want something that will even the odds between you and the 1 random pirate that you come upon. Jeez, thank god the devs aren't considering this.
Kills people in 1 shot
Damage: 10000
Velocity: ~c
Energy: 550/blast
Delay: N/A
Ammo: 400mm Xithricite
Capacity: 1 rounds
Mass: 3000 kg
Volume: 1 cu
Extra Info: No auto-targeting
I think this is what everybody wants... the golden gun. you want something that will even the odds between you and the 1 random pirate that you come upon. Jeez, thank god the devs aren't considering this.