Please do something to replace the command-line chat UI with something visual. It's hopeless to expect people to memorize (or print out and keep handy!) a bunch of cryptic commands. All that private message, join/leave/create group/guild whatever. It really keeps the social aspect of the game only accessible to a bunch of Unix old-timers. Never thought I'd write that sentence. :-)

a1k0n promised to add some menu functionality. Its just not high priority right now.

Yea, not as high a priority as balancing weapons and ships, fixing missions, adding all the content that will keep players coming back for more, but as andreas said, it should be added eventually.

Memorize a bunch of cryptic commands? Hmm, lets' see. /guild you need once in a blue moon. /group you might use regularly, /buddy occasionally. All three of those print out help if you enter them without anything following them.

Has education really gone so far downhill that people can't remember and type three words?

It's true, the chat GUI is a bit clunky. Much of it is modeled after irc, which is quite familiar to a large portion of the world, but it isn't as user-friendly as it could be for those who are unfamiliar. I might argue that such a communication system might easily exist in the Vendetta universe - stripped down with few niceties, but the point is that it ought to be a bit eaiser. The trick will be to improve the GUI without cluttering it horribly. We'll get there.

I would like to see MORE command-line functions, not fewer. Amazing as it may seem, some of us like to type better than use a mouse.

I have to agree w/Soltis: command line-based actions can actually be executed more quickly than dragging a mouse across a screen to click buttons. PLUS, retaining command-line functionality may actually make better sense from a usability standpoint if your hands are already on the keyboard from typing a previous chat message. Not all usability problems are solved with a mouse and a GUI.

I would like to see both. More command line functions and a GUI that players could use if they wanted to.

However, I must point out that no matter what, activating the GUI is almost going to HAVE to be a keypress, since while flying with the mouse you cant very well click on buttons and icons, and once you have activated the GUI you wont be able to control your ship until you exit out of it.

I agree with TheMiller! I guarantee that after a week of playing this game you will have all the basic functions memorized. It's really not that hard, though it would be nice for some people if you could press a key " " and unactivate your mouse from controlling the ship, then click on some menu and select your commands. For some it works perfect the way it is :)

/givemoney Devs 2c

Spellcast and Soltis are exactly right. It would be nice (ie. eye-candy) to have everything configurable via gui, but don't dare replace everything with a gui. Unless there is a sufficiently powerful key bind/alias interface, that is. Otherwise, many things would be impossible to set up (or at least much more difficult).

So augment the interface, but don't replace it.

Oh, and how hopeless is it to expect someone to print this page out? http://vendetta-online.com/manual/app_commands.html Seriously, only the top 5 of those would you need to "memorize" unless you are configuring your binds and aliases.

I've played MUDs for years and I still find the current interface pretty coarse and difficult to navigate. If you're gonna have a text based system you at least need a splash list of useful commands (like help, command, rules, etc) to point someone in the right direction.

maybe a hierarchical menu-based system navigated with hotkeys, like UT2004's or NWN's "voicechat" menu??

-press *randomkey* to bring up menu

-press 1 to access "group functions"

-press 3 to access "send group invite to target"

The boys and I had a similar discussion yesterday. Oddly enough, we all thought the current system was precise, simple, and neat. Not to mention oldschool. It had that feel of a no *BS* barebones system that actually worked.

I think the newer generation of gamers expect shiny context boxes and "helpful" popups allover the hud (just check out any new RPG). Condensing critical functions to menu's and context boxes sometimes clutters things up and makes them less functional in the end. Once you get used to text commands it becomes second nature. But taking your attention to a bunch of frustrating windows'ish boxes, which get sticky and awkward sometimes, can really be a drag. So many times in RPG's when i wanted to perform a function in the heat of combat, i just wanted to type the bloomin' thing out. Not hunt around in a maze of menu's, or even worse, try and right click a fast moving target to bring up its context menu (try doing that on a pinprick target moving at max deflection).

I think a few might agree that VO has a nice feel to it. Its extremely light (doesnt slow down average PC's and doesnt need a 6gb client) and neat. You want to group? type it out! simple as that.

Agree - implement a simple menu system by hitting a key. I dunno, f10 or something which brings up a control centre. Then you can access the 5 major areas (combat, group, weapons, blah, and ect). Then you can navigate further down the trees by pressing a number and eventually arriving at your command. Why do i like the command-centre-press-numbers-to-navigate system? because after a while you memorize the menu paths. So if you want to group you hit f10-3-1-1. If anybody used that system before it grows on you. Its easy to use, simple, and it also lets you explore all available options when situation permits.

Ofcourse, the command line system should always be in place.

One thing i do not want to see happen to this neat little package is it becoming corrupted with too many extra features and a hud which looks like... dog's dinner. Its a rare luxury to be able to play something that runs so slick and handsome in this day and age, rather than be assaulted by obese programming and attacked by feature'itis.

A consideration.

Can such a menu be made as transparent as possible?

IE, make it ignore the qwer/asdf, space, zxc keys, and still pass those through to the game? This would let a player momentarily lift the hand from the mouse, and touch a few keys with his "free" hand, while still navigating enough to get the bots away from them.

Just a consideration, as I often find myself both requesting, querying, and other tasks in the middle of combat. :)

I think you all need to learn that change is a good think, this cry for the "oldschool" is just not correct. Take a look at the way that other MMORPGs are progressing. This game has a lot of work to do before it will be a contender with the top three (EQ2/WoW/Horrizons) of which all three have amazing interfaces.

While there should always be a way to do things text based, there is a greater need in my opinion to have things more easily accessable via a mouse click. At the moment there are not that many commands that need to be used, but that is more because of the lack of complexity in the ships and weapons and a cry from the beta's and the oldschool vendetta players calling for less commands, less interface, less costomization which to me is a big mistake. I for one have become quite expectant to find crafting, good combat mechanics, and great quest systems from MMORPG's, at the moment, this game is more of a PvP Quake/Doom arena with a few cargo runs thrown in to make it feel as if it is a RPG based game. I have yet to really fine the RPG in all of this other then the forced cultural hatered set up by the backstory which only fuels the PvP FPS aspect of the game. If your going to stay competative, make the GUI better, add things like hotkey macros, mouse clickable menus and better group window buttons for "inviting" "leaving" groups. You might try opening up the GUI to us all, allow us to manipulate the interface as we like. All the before mentioned games allow you to move your chat windows around as well as most other parts of the GUI.

Don't get me wrong, I see great potential in this game and have not played another since downloading this one. Unfortunately, the more I read the comments from some of the more outspoken people on the suggestions board the more I worry that the game will move backwards instead of forwards, and you will end up with people leaving to play games that can develope faster and more content. I hope this is not the case and I am mistaken.

guys do you relly think people are going to flock to the game because of content and missions if they cant figure out how to equip a weapon on the ship?

i know many people do not form groups, because the /group create , /group invite name is so unfreidnly to users. the first problem is how do you type into the box... second is what command do you use, third is how do you type in peoples names who have spaces in them, fourth is figuring out that you need to be on channel 100 to ask questions instead of channel 1, ...

do you think people are gonna be driven away by lack of missions, or by the fact that they have to jjump through a million hoops to even do the basic missions already there?

johnhawl218, i agree with you totally. additionally, customization is key.

@ananzi
I agree, there are other things that will make the newbie leave much quicker then the GUI or the mission content. There is a learning curve to all new games and MMO's are notorious for having a longer period to adjust to all the new commands. I found it quite strange that the Dev's decided to implement the "Mentoring" system and pawn all the basic beginner info responsibility onto us the players. Do you know anyone with mentoring points? I don't!! BUT, If you follow the tutorial in the beginning and actually READ some of the messages in the zoning screens and find your way to channel 100 (if!!) most minor interface issues can get resolved quite quickly, which then leads you back to content and stuff like that. I do agree with you whole heartedly though that there are too many hoops that you have to jump through just to get going in the game, and a lot of that could be eleviated right at the beginning with a bit more info in the beginning tutorial for how to access channels and other commands like /group /join /guild etc.

You have a very good argument for a GUI, however you dont address the point that this game is a twitch based game and the mouse is used for controlling the facing of the ship, not running a GUI.

""If your going to stay competative, make the GUI better, add things like hotkey macros, mouse clickable menus and better group window buttons for "inviting" "leaving" groups""

This sentence in particular leaves me asking, -Ok and what is my ship doing while i'm running the mouse all over the screen clicking menu's and buttons?-

I'm not arguing against a GUI mind, I am playing devils advocate here.

"I've played MUDs for years and I still find the current interface pretty coarse and difficult to navigate. If you're gonna have a text based system you at least need a splash list of useful commands (like help, command, rules, etc) to point someone in the right direction."

'thing is, you don't have to type out each command -every- time you need them :). a lot of the commands like accelerate, decelerate, straf, mouselook on, sector chat, group chat, guild chat... etc, are already bound in. I remember F1 is help, and gives you a list of "what button to press for what."

johnhaw1218 and teh*fink:
I'm not quite sure what aspect of customization you mean--do you mean you wish there were more ships/weapons/batts... that sort of thing? because I find the commands rather customizable.

VO is nice because it is customizable with mere text and some clicking from the F1 menu and options, if you want (I don't change much from the original defaults).
I'm definitely not oldschool (wish I were, but I'm newish to computers) and I appreciate the straightforwardness. The manual explained everything I needed to know. Instead of looking for elusive buttons and menus, I had one console/box for typing, and a keyboard to poke at.

"i know many people do not form groups, because the /group create , /group invite name is so unfreidnly to users. the first problem is how do you type into the box... second is what command do you use, third is how do you type in peoples names who have spaces in them, fourth is figuring out that you need to be on channel 100 to ask questions instead of channel 1, ..."
After I read the manual, I was enlightened. (but before reading the manual... yea it was a little confusing)