As it stands now, (and has always been) the Valk is pretty much unbeatable using any other ship with equally skilled fighters. The Serco Prom can take it out well but takes more time to train with.

The major problem is in CTC the valk has a large armor, speed, and weapon advantage over any other combat ship in the game.

The valk can jump in take out a convoy with tach III's, grab the cargo and be gone before most players have a chance to defend it.

I think an easy way to make the valk less uber without nerfing it totally is to add a bit to the mass. 500-800kg to start should be enough to slow it down, it may need more added if thats not enough.

The second major advantage of the valk is the current tri-neutron III configuration. The neut III are much to light for their effectiveness. The neut III either need to be heavier or less effective, which ever. Slowing down the fire rate by 15% or adding on to the mass would help.

As it stands now the Serco don't have much of a chance once the Itani new pilots learn how to use a valk. The serco's best fighter is the Serco- Vult and that is no match for the Valk. One could instead add to the Serco Vult to make it better able to match the valk.

The vult could be given less mass or more acceleration whatever. If it could keep up with the valk it would stand a far better chance of hurting it.

I have to disagree with your assesment of Valk vs. Vult (at least in the context of a dogfight), but I have no idea what the average player consensous is.

I find that a vulture's narrow profile fits my fighting style much better than the potato shaped valk. The 3rd weapon suffers from diminishing returns (you know, 2 is much better than 1, 3 is a little better than 2, 4 is not much better than 3).

Adding to the wieght of the Neut III's would hurt the vult more than the valk. The vult with less armour has to rely on not being hit. While that is a strategy for the valk as well, it can take more knocks and still be in the fight.

As far as catching someone running away, I can't seem to do that with anyship vs anyship. Adding acceleration to the vult wont help as it only takes seconds to reach top speed in any fighter. I think this would be better solved with engine energy drain tweaking so we can't all turbo so dang far.

How bout add a CTF style penalty to taking the cargo like you have to be 6000 out instead of 3000 to jump. Of course this would make little difference to anyone with a FC.

I say no turbo when you have the cargo. Is there an issue with this? It was one of the CTF things that really encouraged team play and armadas both of which are cool things. It would prevent the easy escape that we all have now and practically require the cargo to be escorted.

Durgia,

I'll gladly pit my vult against your valk:)

Well the valk was un catchable before the infi turbo was in, while this is problem it is seperate from the issue.

I prefer fighting in vults as well, but that does not make much difference. The valk is faster, has more weapons and more armor. It is superior to every ship in the game.

Adding mass to the Neut III would not hurt the vult more then the valk. It would hurt it some, but not as much as having 3 of them. Just like tri-gauss and tri-flares are too heavy now, dual gauss still works farely well though.

Dog fighting is not so much the issue here as its not done as often in CTC. It is usually hit and run which the valk is insanely better at then the vult.

If the vult had faster accelleration the valk would not be able to escape as easily. As it is now the valk leaves all other ships in the dust. Having at least 1 ship that could keep up with it is neccissary.

Goatwarrior, I use a vult for most of my flying unless I am outnumbered in which case I switch to a valk.

I didn't think about 3 neut III's vs. 2, you're right that does make a difference. I still feel the vult is harmed more by loss of agility than the valk, I don't know if it's enough that having 3 vs 2 makes a difference.

As to the acceleration, that only helps if you have faster acceleration than the valk and can catch it before it reaches top speed. You can go from 0 to 200 in 1 sec and you'll still never catch the Atlas that's already going 200. Remember that valks couldn't catch valks before inf turbo either. That's why I suggest the no turbo CTF penalty; It would solve the whole problem wouldn't it?

Also I don't think it's inf turbo so much as the ability to turbo to jumping distance without having to stop. You can do that just as easy with a heavy bat as an FC.

The fact that a basic Valk requires level 8 combat and can only be bought in Itani space, I feel, offsets some of its advantages.

I was involved in a very fun CTC round a few days ago. I loaded up my valk for combat and assaulted the Serco convoy alone against two Serco Vultures and a Prom. I was able to kill the two vultures and damage the prom badly, but the vultures were obviously homed close by, becaue they were able to rejoin the fight quickly. If I had died, it would have been 10 mins before I could get back to the action. It was only with the help of another Valk (thanks Sputnik) after I got myself in a bit of trouble (heavy damage) that I waas able to escape with the cargo.

something needs to be done about the mass of the weapons, and the engine situation before worrying about imposing any additional restrictions on the CTC cargo carriers. I feel that a balance in the engine system and a reworking of the mass of some of the weapons would solve the whole problem. not just the problem as it relates to CTC.

The acceleration does help though. Right now if the Valk grabs cargo and is going 65m/s then turbos away to 3000m with a vult going 65m/s right behind it which also turbos following it. The valk will reach the warp out range long before the vult.

No matter what you do you will never catch a ship doing 200m/s but that is not what I want.

If the vult can keep up to the valk, so it can warp out directly behind the valk into new sectors it would help a lot. That goes the other way too. If the vult can not be caught so fast it would help too.

The problem with acceleration is not in the 200m/s its in how long it takes both ships to hit 200m/s

Imposing certain things on CTC will not help the game play any. It just creates artificial barriers.

This thread http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/7405 discusses a few CTC related ideas. One of the suggestions I have made is to vastly increase the mass of the cargo from 500kg to 5000kg. This way, any ship carrying the cargo is unable to fight effectively and barely able to run. Even a valk could only carry 2 crates effectively. Even then, its mass would quadruple.

Just as a bit of over view of what I think

Valk + mass would make it around the same speed as the vult.

The valk would have more armor and the vult would still have its slim profile. They would be more equal in that respect.

The valk would still have 1 more port and possibly be a bit faster, it is a special after all and should be better then the vult, just not insanely so.

OK I see your point now. I guess I just didn't think the acceleration difference was as big as you say but I'll take your word for it.

>Imposing certain things on CTC will not help the game play any.
>It just creates artificial barriers.

I don't agree with that though. The entire game is artificial outside its own framework, and I can think of a hundred plausible (within the games context) explinations for disableing turbo while you have the cargo.

My main push for the disabled turbo I'll admit is because I think it is more fun that way (I disagree that it would add nothing to game play I think it would encourage more escorting and less running away), that I also think it would solve the ctc problem you describe is incedental to me so I'll leave this thread alone now =)

They could cut the mass on the Centurion to turn it into a true interceptor. The better variants could have a little more accel then a Valk. A Centurion could force the Valk to turn and fight letting the Vulture catch up.

One issue would be this change would give noobs more power. I don't know what the difference between license level has to be to cause the Valk driver to be penalized for killing a lower level pilot.

Adding more weight to the valk would totally nerf it. Its already not much lighter than a vult, but offers a lot more area to hit. Increasing the weight of N3 is something one could consider though ...

"Adding more weight to the valk would totally nerf it. Its already not much lighter than a vult, but offers a lot more area to hit."

i agree with the above. the moment you nerf the valk then we'll hear whining about the vult.. infact i've been hearing complaints about the vulture's thinness COMING FROM PEOPLE IN A VALKYIRE! and i agree FULLY agree. the valkyire in it's current state is perfectly balenced, all varents. it's the size of a wraith in a potato shape. the vulture is a peice of wide paper that is hard as hell to it, valkyire or not.

"to vastly increase the mass of the cargo from 500kg to 5000kg. This way, any ship carrying the cargo is unable to fight effectively and barely able to run. Even a valk could only carry 2 crates effectively. Even then, its mass would quadruple."

i also agree with the above for -all- ships. slow them down when they have CTC cargo. currently the valkyire rune is able to carry 8 units.

i am surprized i am not hearing whines about eldrad's axia bus.

after the valkyire gets nerfed we'll hear whines about the vulture. once the vulture is fixed we'll hear whines about UIT's maud. ''but but its a freighter!!! it shouldn't move quicky! and have 48 units!! it shouldn't have 3 small ports!''. after that we'll hear about wraith because it has 2 small ports, and a large port while the centuar is slower, with 2 large and 1 light. after that we'll hear whines about the itani border guardian. (lets nerf it again!)

the list GOES on.

i hear word that engines are going to be reintroduced, perhaps some ship modfications will make you all happy with the equipment you select. but as it stands now, the ships themselvs i beleive are well balenced except the promethious.

the promethious is a large brick, and moves like a large brick. this could be compensaited by more armour, but with the same mass. a vulture/valkyire/border guardian/bus/centurion/maud can do cricles around it. however i hear that player controlled turrets are coming. this problem could easilly be solved by throwing -low- weight turrets on it.

as for weapons i agree with Spellcast completely. something needs to be done about their weight. you guys whined about gauss cannons so now they're 1200kg, sunflares, 1200kg.. why not make the valkyire 90000kg? oi.....

I agree that the CTC cargo should be heavier.
That would make a better way of dealing with hit-and-run issues than disabling turbo.

I do, however, think that there are atleast 10 good (ingame) reasons for turbo shutdown. Such as:

"The radiation from the cargo makes the turbo-inducers unstable. The computer detects this and disables the turbo so the ship won't tear itself apart."

Disabling Turbo would kick it too far the other way. You would be easy prey for players and bots. Nobody would want to run cargo. It would be suicide.

The issue here is that Valk have less mass so has better acceleration then anything the Serco have available. This is were a lightly armed, lightly armored, and low mass interceptor would help.

the valk is just a great ship. there's going to be ships that are great. i can do decently against a valk with three neut mkIII's in a vult with two neut mkII's. you also need to consider that people piloting valks appear to be pretty decent themselves, so that becomes a factor, as it should be.

I disagree that the valk needs more mass at present.
If the weapons mass is lowered for everything to be more in balance with the Neut IIIs (N-III) I will re-evaluate my position.

At this time, in order to win fights I fly a valk with a single gauss cannon, that means my valk weighs in at 4200kg (the same as a dual N-III serco vult).
It might be just me, but I have a very hard time hitting a vulture with N-III.
When I was using a vulture, N-III fights were pretty even, but the valk is a much bigger target, and I seem to take many more hits even with less mass.

Also... In regards to CTC the valk's mass is not the immediate problem, and nerfing it would be treating the symptom, not the disease.
When my single N-III valk rune is filled with convoy cargo it weighs 7200kg, 3000 heavier than a serco vulture, and I can still get away. So mass, and thrust is not the issue, It's the top speed.

No turbo for CTC carriers: While this worked for CTF in the old universe, I can't imagine how hard (read: impossible) it would be to get cargo halfway across the universe at almost 1/4 the speed of your pursuers.

-Cam-

*edit: I forgot to mention something...
I botted FOREVER to get my valk, I don't know what level the Serco vult is obtained at, but I do know it's much lower than a valk.
In my mind levels should give you at least some advantage. There are lots of pilots out there who could easily beat my valk with a vulture (I bet Eldrad could beat me in his bus) and if all my leveling and hard work can't at least give me a slight advantage... then what's the point?

I think the valks are fine, I've never flown one, but being serco ive fought a few and didnt notice any advantage other than it can take a few more hits than my serco guardian vulture.