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The problem is manyfold.
A)The valks really high accelleration -as well- as its high armor.
B) Weapons mass balance.
C) engine imbalance
I think that A is overdone for the valk, the valk can out-accelerate anything, which means that it will always get away.
B) suffers as well, since except the rumours about Aon, I've only seen NeutronIII valks, a weapon that has a mass disrespectancy to anything in the game.
A)The valks really high accelleration -as well- as its high armor.
B) Weapons mass balance.
C) engine imbalance
I think that A is overdone for the valk, the valk can out-accelerate anything, which means that it will always get away.
B) suffers as well, since except the rumours about Aon, I've only seen NeutronIII valks, a weapon that has a mass disrespectancy to anything in the game.
How about missiles that can reach 200m/s?
That'd bring turbo down to match the weapons, without making normal flight even more time consuming. Could also make the cargo in CtC much heavier, thus slowing down whoever picks it up.
That'd bring turbo down to match the weapons, without making normal flight even more time consuming. Could also make the cargo in CtC much heavier, thus slowing down whoever picks it up.
rockets can already reach 290m/s .. thats not the problem . the problem is that noone can -use- rockets because they are so heavy that your ship is unable to turn.
Add to that, that in order to use rockets , you need to do slight speed/angle aligns in order to get it "right" , so the weight kills acceleration, which kills rocket precision, which kills rockets even more.
Not only are you a sitting duck if you equip them, you cant turn and shoot because your ship doesn't move fast enough :/
Add to that, that in order to use rockets , you need to do slight speed/angle aligns in order to get it "right" , so the weight kills acceleration, which kills rocket precision, which kills rockets even more.
Not only are you a sitting duck if you equip them, you cant turn and shoot because your ship doesn't move fast enough :/
I am glad this generated so much discussion. It brings forth many many different options when everybody states their opinion.
Somewhere back in their I read an idea about making the cent faster. This could actually be a good thing. If the centurion was actually faster then the valk it would fill a lot of holes. The speed layout of ships IMO should look like this anyhow...
Centurion>>Valk>>Vult>>Hog>>Maruader>>Atlas>>Wraith>>Hornet>>etc etc
not sure about all of them but the first 3 make sence to me anyhow.
The Centurion would then be a cheap, fast, low level ship. It would still only have 6500 armor so a valk or vult would destroy it easily, but lower level players could still compete.
Dunno but it may be worth discussing further.
Somewhere back in their I read an idea about making the cent faster. This could actually be a good thing. If the centurion was actually faster then the valk it would fill a lot of holes. The speed layout of ships IMO should look like this anyhow...
Centurion>>Valk>>Vult>>Hog>>Maruader>>Atlas>>Wraith>>Hornet>>etc etc
not sure about all of them but the first 3 make sence to me anyhow.
The Centurion would then be a cheap, fast, low level ship. It would still only have 6500 armor so a valk or vult would destroy it easily, but lower level players could still compete.
Dunno but it may be worth discussing further.
So not to reduce the abillitys of the valk, but to make another Itani Ship more powerfull (Special Itani Cent) seems not to be the last truth for me...
We need a special day in a year, where every Itani has to fly Proms instead of Valks and vice versa. That should give some hints.
Allthough I think, that no Itani will be online that day.
But back to topic:
- The Mass system of Weapons should be balanced better.(tach III is really too light)
- There are people out there, who would like to have a special Pack of Rockets instead of an Energyweapon. What about a special Flare to win every 2. week?
- Weapons were tested and fixed over years. Why to bring this new Tach III now, and make all this balancing useless? Find another benefit for the cargowar.
- Although I see myself as a trader and I _love_ this infini-boost: throw it away.
We need a special day in a year, where every Itani has to fly Proms instead of Valks and vice versa. That should give some hints.
Allthough I think, that no Itani will be online that day.
But back to topic:
- The Mass system of Weapons should be balanced better.(tach III is really too light)
- There are people out there, who would like to have a special Pack of Rockets instead of an Energyweapon. What about a special Flare to win every 2. week?
- Weapons were tested and fixed over years. Why to bring this new Tach III now, and make all this balancing useless? Find another benefit for the cargowar.
- Although I see myself as a trader and I _love_ this infini-boost: throw it away.
The infiniboost is only temporary while they make each ship have its own engine. So I've been told, at least.
I play on my Serco chars as much as Itani ones. Though I do prefer Itani better usually.
The prom is a powerful ship that could use a little more hull, it is more then a match for a valk 1vs1 depending on pilots of course.
I never thought of the Itani cent when replying to the suggestion, but I have yet to see a Serco make an idepth suggestion on how to fix the problem. Whine yes, complain yes, actually discussion on how to fix, not so much.
The prom is a powerful ship that could use a little more hull, it is more then a match for a valk 1vs1 depending on pilots of course.
I never thought of the Itani cent when replying to the suggestion, but I have yet to see a Serco make an idepth suggestion on how to fix the problem. Whine yes, complain yes, actually discussion on how to fix, not so much.
The Itani Cent could use more maneuverability. It has a larger profile, higher mass and lower hull than any Vulture variant. The only reason I use it is because it doesn't wingbug.
See my other thread about the suggestions to fix it. and here to.
As for your skills with the prom, have you even played the prometheus in a pvp situation since the Mass disrespectancy was implemented?
*sigh*
As for your skills with the prom, have you even played the prometheus in a pvp situation since the Mass disrespectancy was implemented?
*sigh*
I am Serco. The idea is a for an interceptor. The existing Cent is the closest thing to that from a firepower, armor, and model basis, but not in its relatively heavy mass. The Itani variant is a minor issue. The big issue is license level penalities. That issue could be addressed by having no penalities in unreg space (a true noob is not likely to go there) and not have penalities for killing anyone above 2/2/-/-/-. Interceptions would still be hard even with an interceptor due to the 200 m/s turbo speed cap.
Advantages
* Serco would gain a ship that can out accel a Valk
* Noobs would be have a better ship that lets them survive noob-hood and can get into PvP earlier
* Cents would have a role in mix ship PvP fights intercepting more massive ships and harassing enemy groups with hit and run attacks
Disadvantage
* Itani Cent would have better accel then the best stock Cent variant, not a big deal since Serco need the Cent to counter Valks, Valks can already out accel existing Serco ships
* License level penalities issues need to be resolved
Advantages
* Serco would gain a ship that can out accel a Valk
* Noobs would be have a better ship that lets them survive noob-hood and can get into PvP earlier
* Cents would have a role in mix ship PvP fights intercepting more massive ships and harassing enemy groups with hit and run attacks
Disadvantage
* Itani Cent would have better accel then the best stock Cent variant, not a big deal since Serco need the Cent to counter Valks, Valks can already out accel existing Serco ships
* License level penalities issues need to be resolved
Durgia posted:
-The prom is a powerful ship that could use a little more hull, it is more then a match for a valk 1vs1 depending on pilots of course.-
No it isnt. I love my prometheous, Its my absolute all time favorite ship, And before they added mass to weapons i would have agreed with that statment 100%.
As it stands now, the prometheous has no chance. Its advantage was always the ability to mount a heavy weapon with 2 small weapons to give it a wide range of combat options, specifically the AGT and whatever s-ports seemed useful at the time.
Now however unless the pilot of the valk does something absolutely silly like mount 3 gauss or 3 sunflares, the mass gain the prom gets from mounting the 3 weapons needed to make it useful is so much higher than the mass added to the valk that you cant even keep an AGT locked on the target.
Add to the extra slowdown in accelleration and you cant even run from a valk. In the time it takes to accelerate an AGT-dualgem prom up to 200m/s a valk can catch you, unload a full volley of n3 STOP TURBOING, recharge the FC, catch you again and fire again. I know, i've had it happen to me.
-The prom is a powerful ship that could use a little more hull, it is more then a match for a valk 1vs1 depending on pilots of course.-
No it isnt. I love my prometheous, Its my absolute all time favorite ship, And before they added mass to weapons i would have agreed with that statment 100%.
As it stands now, the prometheous has no chance. Its advantage was always the ability to mount a heavy weapon with 2 small weapons to give it a wide range of combat options, specifically the AGT and whatever s-ports seemed useful at the time.
Now however unless the pilot of the valk does something absolutely silly like mount 3 gauss or 3 sunflares, the mass gain the prom gets from mounting the 3 weapons needed to make it useful is so much higher than the mass added to the valk that you cant even keep an AGT locked on the target.
Add to the extra slowdown in accelleration and you cant even run from a valk. In the time it takes to accelerate an AGT-dualgem prom up to 200m/s a valk can catch you, unload a full volley of n3 STOP TURBOING, recharge the FC, catch you again and fire again. I know, i've had it happen to me.
That's more a bug with the N3's obscenely low weight than it is with the prom...
well its true I have not used a prom since the mass update, so that statement is a bit outdated. But it could be fixed by adding more hull to the prom without any more mass.
HEY I GOT AN IDEA! How about we get batteries that will allow a ship like the prom/rag to fire it's weapons for more than 10 seconds? I mean unload a volley of small weapons and large weapons and your batteries gone. This makes you MUCH more dependant on maneuverability. So once you take the ship with the potential for a ton of fire power... . and give it a worthy battery, I think this will balance it all out just fine :)
/givemoney Devs 2c
/givemoney Devs 2c
I'm still having a hard time with this argument.
I think the main issue is weapon mass and infiniboost.
I don't think the valk needs any specific nerfing (or at least not to a big extent).
Maybe 100-200kg difference, but anymore and I really don't see it being worthwhile.
I'm going to point out that 2 of the valk variants are only 500HP more than the serco vult armor wise, and 700-800kg of mass doesn't seem like much when you take into account the extra weapon port. Of course most people aren't using the third weapon port due to mass (myself included).
I agree the centurion should be the lightest ship. My understanding is that due to it's small width it can't have a lower mass because there's a bug with roll speed. (something like that, please correct me if I'm mistaken).
Again I'm going to state that we're going about things in the wrong order.
Balance the weapon mass
Scrap infiniboost
Then come back and see if the valk is still indeed TOO much.
I think the main issue is weapon mass and infiniboost.
I don't think the valk needs any specific nerfing (or at least not to a big extent).
Maybe 100-200kg difference, but anymore and I really don't see it being worthwhile.
I'm going to point out that 2 of the valk variants are only 500HP more than the serco vult armor wise, and 700-800kg of mass doesn't seem like much when you take into account the extra weapon port. Of course most people aren't using the third weapon port due to mass (myself included).
I agree the centurion should be the lightest ship. My understanding is that due to it's small width it can't have a lower mass because there's a bug with roll speed. (something like that, please correct me if I'm mistaken).
Again I'm going to state that we're going about things in the wrong order.
Balance the weapon mass
Scrap infiniboost
Then come back and see if the valk is still indeed TOO much.
Thought I;d add my 2 cents; I'm currently resorting to flying a Hog MkIV. Why? Bcos its the only rocket platform that is barely useable. The Jackhammers have the same mass as a single Sunflare, yet do more damage, travel faster, and fire at a higher rate. It's also the only ship that you can (nearly) aim with when using rockets, yet it gets totally owned by a even a newbie pilot in a Valk or a Vulture packing Neutron IIIs. Something tells me this is wrong. Neutron III's need more mass added, no question about it. The small port rockets need to be lighter or upped in speed or perhaps damage to be useable, as a single rocket is too slow to hit anyone unless they are stationary, and inflicts only minor damage considering they have a very limited ammo. As Spider said, to use rockets effectively you need to be able to make fine adjustments to your ships orientation and speed, with the current mass associated with the rockets, they are esentially *nerfed*. The fact that Sunflares require such high levels adds insult to injury. Compare any small port rocket to Gems and see how much they suck, remembering the levels at which you obtain them too.
The engine/battery setups are ludicrous at present. Any ship can pretty much outrun any other ship. Once someone is running, unless they are an idiot, they are gone. This is a result of infi-boost, no variation in engines top-speed, being able to sector warp at anytime > 3km, load times. I also have a theory that the chaser is always at a disadvantage due to the sector loading mechanism; The first person to jump into an empty sector will load the sector quicker than the second person jumping in... at least thats what i think happens anyway, because 99% of the time i jump just behind a player and they end up flying 2km ahead of me by the time I've loaded the sector...
These issues are far from new, isn't it about time they were addressed, or at least just a reply to say "We got no intention of changing these things" if thats the case...
Oh, and it'd be nice if Serco could obtain a Valk or something at least competitive...
The engine/battery setups are ludicrous at present. Any ship can pretty much outrun any other ship. Once someone is running, unless they are an idiot, they are gone. This is a result of infi-boost, no variation in engines top-speed, being able to sector warp at anytime > 3km, load times. I also have a theory that the chaser is always at a disadvantage due to the sector loading mechanism; The first person to jump into an empty sector will load the sector quicker than the second person jumping in... at least thats what i think happens anyway, because 99% of the time i jump just behind a player and they end up flying 2km ahead of me by the time I've loaded the sector...
These issues are far from new, isn't it about time they were addressed, or at least just a reply to say "We got no intention of changing these things" if thats the case...
Oh, and it'd be nice if Serco could obtain a Valk or something at least competitive...
since it's about CTC, I don't think the topic should be just "valk vs. players in other ships"
have to consider the transports--aren't they totally fried in seconds against a n3 valk :)
have to consider the transports--aren't they totally fried in seconds against a n3 valk :)
Well I did have a seperate idea about ships and adding a new design or 10. I will mention it here because it is relative to Icarus's post..
All the non-special ships we have now should be made by UIT then sold to both nations.
Serco and Itani both should have 5 of their own ships that only people in high standing with their gov can use.
Adv. Fighter, Adv. Bomber, Adv. Cargo ship, Adv. Mining Ship, Noob ship.
Sercos Adv fighter would be almost as good as the valk, Itanis adv bomber would be almost as good as the prom etc. Make the ships different so each race has slightly different pros and cons.
All regular ships could still be bought of course.
All the non-special ships we have now should be made by UIT then sold to both nations.
Serco and Itani both should have 5 of their own ships that only people in high standing with their gov can use.
Adv. Fighter, Adv. Bomber, Adv. Cargo ship, Adv. Mining Ship, Noob ship.
Sercos Adv fighter would be almost as good as the valk, Itanis adv bomber would be almost as good as the prom etc. Make the ships different so each race has slightly different pros and cons.
All regular ships could still be bought of course.