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On the flipside I too probably won't be subscribing initially unless something is changed to encourage PvP combat. I just don't think it would be a fun game to play. I still have hope though, since even after initial release there'll be add-ons.
Otherwise I admire all the work and effort the devs put into Vendetta throughout this whole entire time. I only regret not having donated more money along the way.
Looking back to "the good old days", quite honestly I still have to go with 3.1.x being the most fun version of Vendetta. Not because it lacked role playing elements, but because:
1. First and foremost, the ships and weapons were pretty well balanced, even if they lacked variety.
2. Each race was more unique in the availability of ships, even if each class throughout all races performed the same.
3. There were tons of people to play with, albeit yes this was due to the low sector count.
4. CTF is still a fun idea I think, especially without uber NPCDEFs to ruin it. (I especially liked weaving in and out of all the fire from stationary turrets and having to deal with Whistler's l-mines.)
5. And the teamwork. I don't know what it is but there was something about the community back then which involved more teamwork and comradery. Some of it transferred into 3.2.x, but it quickly faded thereafter.
If a "lite" version of Vendetta, similar to 3.1.x, was offered today, I'd DEFINITELY pay to play a game like that. And again, not because it was deathmatch oriented, but because of the features listed above (and the simplicity of the earlier versions).
Anyway, I'm hoping they'll be able to please both audiences (PvP vs non-PvP) by the time of initial release. But I'm feeling a little skeptical at this point. It's going to take some time to build up a big enough community to fill the void that exists. I think Vendetta still has a long way to go before they reach the level that the devs originally intended the game to be like.
Thankfully there'll be expansion packs and updates to fix some of that. That just might bring in more people later on. So if you're disappointed with the initial release, don't give up. Keep your eye on Vendetta's progress and see if it'll suit your playing style more as it evolves.
I also encourage the devs to keep the public posted on any major updates which occur to Vendetta even after release. Listing some of the improvements and features that are planned for the future may help bring in players who are eagerly awaiting for more content.
Otherwise I admire all the work and effort the devs put into Vendetta throughout this whole entire time. I only regret not having donated more money along the way.
Looking back to "the good old days", quite honestly I still have to go with 3.1.x being the most fun version of Vendetta. Not because it lacked role playing elements, but because:
1. First and foremost, the ships and weapons were pretty well balanced, even if they lacked variety.
2. Each race was more unique in the availability of ships, even if each class throughout all races performed the same.
3. There were tons of people to play with, albeit yes this was due to the low sector count.
4. CTF is still a fun idea I think, especially without uber NPCDEFs to ruin it. (I especially liked weaving in and out of all the fire from stationary turrets and having to deal with Whistler's l-mines.)
5. And the teamwork. I don't know what it is but there was something about the community back then which involved more teamwork and comradery. Some of it transferred into 3.2.x, but it quickly faded thereafter.
If a "lite" version of Vendetta, similar to 3.1.x, was offered today, I'd DEFINITELY pay to play a game like that. And again, not because it was deathmatch oriented, but because of the features listed above (and the simplicity of the earlier versions).
Anyway, I'm hoping they'll be able to please both audiences (PvP vs non-PvP) by the time of initial release. But I'm feeling a little skeptical at this point. It's going to take some time to build up a big enough community to fill the void that exists. I think Vendetta still has a long way to go before they reach the level that the devs originally intended the game to be like.
Thankfully there'll be expansion packs and updates to fix some of that. That just might bring in more people later on. So if you're disappointed with the initial release, don't give up. Keep your eye on Vendetta's progress and see if it'll suit your playing style more as it evolves.
I also encourage the devs to keep the public posted on any major updates which occur to Vendetta even after release. Listing some of the improvements and features that are planned for the future may help bring in players who are eagerly awaiting for more content.
my vote: Definitely keep player list.
Especially with the sectors as they are now, but also once there are more players it's helpful to see who's in your sector.
Especially with the sectors as they are now, but also once there are more players it's helpful to see who's in your sector.
Dont make such a big deal about little things.
hm... just to add my 2¢:
the compromise ctishman offered was actually quite realistic. let the list be limited to your radar range. pirates could lurk just beyond that (near the storm exit point, e.g.) and you still wouldn't know right when you enter the storm because there are probably bots around, throwing off your attention.
the compromise ctishman offered was actually quite realistic. let the list be limited to your radar range. pirates could lurk just beyond that (near the storm exit point, e.g.) and you still wouldn't know right when you enter the storm because there are probably bots around, throwing off your attention.
okay.. As commented ingame yesterday.. this is one of the silliest ideas yet.
So far, I also know that piracy would be far too hard to achieve without this, since it goes both ways.
I'm with icarus on this, Don't remove it, dont limit it. Its great when you're hunting people down or looking for them. I may well change my opinion when the universe is more populated though.
So far, I also know that piracy would be far too hard to achieve without this, since it goes both ways.
I'm with icarus on this, Don't remove it, dont limit it. Its great when you're hunting people down or looking for them. I may well change my opinion when the universe is more populated though.
I had actually thought about the ramifications over the weekend. Spider beat me to the post.
Just exactly how will removing the list benifit PvP? You "PvPers" will be at the exact same disadvantage as the non-PvPers. You will have no idea who is in any given sector. Border Patrol missions (for instance) will become that much harder due to having to search through every bot in the sector to find the NPC pilot necessary to achieve the mission goals rather than bringing up the list and clicking on the pilot name periodically to reveal them on radar.
Unless you are planning on station or warp hole camping, I just don't see request this benefiting anyone.
[sarcasim]Station camping Sir? Warp hole camping? Who Sir, me Sir? Oh no, I'm much too honorable to ever resort to such a base, lame, no skill tactic as station or warp hole camping. But I would like to see the 5 second invulerability after undocking and warping removed as it isn't very realistic.[/sarcasim]
Right.
Just exactly how will removing the list benifit PvP? You "PvPers" will be at the exact same disadvantage as the non-PvPers. You will have no idea who is in any given sector. Border Patrol missions (for instance) will become that much harder due to having to search through every bot in the sector to find the NPC pilot necessary to achieve the mission goals rather than bringing up the list and clicking on the pilot name periodically to reveal them on radar.
Unless you are planning on station or warp hole camping, I just don't see request this benefiting anyone.
[sarcasim]Station camping Sir? Warp hole camping? Who Sir, me Sir? Oh no, I'm much too honorable to ever resort to such a base, lame, no skill tactic as station or warp hole camping. But I would like to see the 5 second invulerability after undocking and warping removed as it isn't very realistic.[/sarcasim]
Right.
Paedric, while you are correct that removing the list gives the same disadvantage to pirates as it does to traders, your sarcastic comment is actually going to be a good pirate tactic.
Lets break this down for a minute and stop thinking like we did WAY back when in the 18 sector universe, where every sector had wormholes that you had to stop at in order to recharge your battery and jump.
With the new navigation system there are effectively an infinite number of paths that players can take in a system. There are only going to be a few places where you will be basically assured of running into other players on a regular basis, the wormhole areas.
A smart pirate will set up around one of these choke points, probably one of the unminitored ones inbetween a couple of the grey, unaligned systems somewhere. Setting up inside one of the nations would be silly, they are gaurded so you wouldnt get very far there. thats why they are gaurded.
The other alternative is to set up inside a storm when you find one. Basically the trick is to set up at a choke point. somewhere that potential targets will come to you, not the other way around.
Now before everyone starts getting all moralistic and ethical on me here, and saying that that isn't fair because its a game and thats not a honorable tactic, I'd like to point out one thing.
this is what real pirates did here on earth. The ocean is a big place when you are on a sailing ship, so they set up shop around the straits of magellen, the cape of good hope, the rock of gibralter, near the florida keys, etc etc. places that ships HAD to pass through.
Removing the player list, (or at least limiting it to radar range) will add some spice to this game by allowing ambushes and the like.
as for setting up around a station, well since almost all of the stations now have defbots, that would be pretty silly wouldnt it.
Lets break this down for a minute and stop thinking like we did WAY back when in the 18 sector universe, where every sector had wormholes that you had to stop at in order to recharge your battery and jump.
With the new navigation system there are effectively an infinite number of paths that players can take in a system. There are only going to be a few places where you will be basically assured of running into other players on a regular basis, the wormhole areas.
A smart pirate will set up around one of these choke points, probably one of the unminitored ones inbetween a couple of the grey, unaligned systems somewhere. Setting up inside one of the nations would be silly, they are gaurded so you wouldnt get very far there. thats why they are gaurded.
The other alternative is to set up inside a storm when you find one. Basically the trick is to set up at a choke point. somewhere that potential targets will come to you, not the other way around.
Now before everyone starts getting all moralistic and ethical on me here, and saying that that isn't fair because its a game and thats not a honorable tactic, I'd like to point out one thing.
this is what real pirates did here on earth. The ocean is a big place when you are on a sailing ship, so they set up shop around the straits of magellen, the cape of good hope, the rock of gibralter, near the florida keys, etc etc. places that ships HAD to pass through.
Removing the player list, (or at least limiting it to radar range) will add some spice to this game by allowing ambushes and the like.
as for setting up around a station, well since almost all of the stations now have defbots, that would be pretty silly wouldnt it.
Maybe have player list in Monitored and Guarded sectors, but not anywhere else.
If any changes were to happen, Id wait for the beta test to open first... then try 1 week with the list, 1 week with it in guarded/monitored sectors, and then 1 week without it at all.
I still vote to keep it as it is. It doesnt hurt anybody now does it...
what monk said. we should test rather than speculate on what could happen, in my opinion.
I agree 100% with paedric. Removing the player in sector list would hurt pirates as much as it would traders. It would be interesting to have it only available in monitored and guarded sectors of favorable alignment, but that's besides the point.
I happen to agree with the reason behind taking the player list away (game balance probably needs to be shifted a little more toward PvP) but I think taking the list away is the wrong way to go about it. I would much rather see energy consumption tweaked, or a short countdown timer added back to in-system jumps.
I happen to agree with the reason behind taking the player list away (game balance probably needs to be shifted a little more toward PvP) but I think taking the list away is the wrong way to go about it. I would much rather see energy consumption tweaked, or a short countdown timer added back to in-system jumps.
A short count down timer?
[irony]Running out to 3000m clear space isn't enough for you? Now you want to put a timer in also.[/irony]
That run out to clear space is already an eternity when you have a back of rabid AIIIs on your tail in a storm. Let's not make it more of an "adventure" than it already is. And PvP will work itself out as people start to come into the game. So just sit back and polish you sunflare tubes in the intrim. :-Þ
[irony]Running out to 3000m clear space isn't enough for you? Now you want to put a timer in also.[/irony]
That run out to clear space is already an eternity when you have a back of rabid AIIIs on your tail in a storm. Let's not make it more of an "adventure" than it already is. And PvP will work itself out as people start to come into the game. So just sit back and polish you sunflare tubes in the intrim. :-Þ
MAKE IT SO YOU HAVE TO TURN IT ON AND IT COST 200 ENERGY AND DRAINS AT 3.s AND HAVE IT SO YOU HAVE TO BUY IT (HAVING IT WILL SLOW YOUR SHIP!) ***zamzx yells over the noise***
/me walks over to zamzx and removes his caps lock key with a screwdriver
Anyway, I gotta disagree with any sort of artificial countdown timer. I think we have enough of those already. The jump distance makes sense, since you can say it's a safety feature to avoid causing your ship to crash while going into warp drive. Timers, however, don't.
If people are in favor of a delay for warp drive, it should be something that makes sense. Perhaps you can have the engines power/warm up followed by cool sound effects before warp drive, and make it so it's not abortable. Anyone who attacks your ship during this time of instability will cause your ship to instantly explode.
At the least this should help prevent players from playing chicken so much and having to escape combat every single time someone from another nation comes into the sector, since it'll only get them killed if the target is close enough. I also think the distance which you can see where your target is headed during warp drive should be increased slightly.
Anyway, I gotta disagree with any sort of artificial countdown timer. I think we have enough of those already. The jump distance makes sense, since you can say it's a safety feature to avoid causing your ship to crash while going into warp drive. Timers, however, don't.
If people are in favor of a delay for warp drive, it should be something that makes sense. Perhaps you can have the engines power/warm up followed by cool sound effects before warp drive, and make it so it's not abortable. Anyone who attacks your ship during this time of instability will cause your ship to instantly explode.
At the least this should help prevent players from playing chicken so much and having to escape combat every single time someone from another nation comes into the sector, since it'll only get them killed if the target is close enough. I also think the distance which you can see where your target is headed during warp drive should be increased slightly.
but if that was inplemented then is u try to warp out of a storm sector as paedric said "u have a back of rabid AIIIs on your tail" if the timer was inplemented then u would just take alot of unnessary damage. and if this is also implemented forget ever getting out of a storm sector or any sector where u are being chased. I agree with having the player list only in sectors governed by ur government or a government that is admire with u for they will share info with u. for other cases it should be with ur radar range seeing as that is all u can really "see". This would also as others have said, adds new elements to the game such as more choice in what type of ship u want and u can decide what is important to u. and for all that dont follow i mean having radar boosters and the like fitting into some "mod" slots.
if the compromise that i and many other have stated is implied then the border partol mission will not be a whore because they will be in ur nations sector therefore the player list will be avaiable. and the reason that i said admire than neutral is because then it would be too easy to get a playerlist in a majority of the universe... also this would allow newbs to stay in their gov controled area and be relatively safe from pirates becaues they can alwasy see who is in the sector as long as they dont wander and try to explore
if the compromise that i and many other have stated is implied then the border partol mission will not be a whore because they will be in ur nations sector therefore the player list will be avaiable. and the reason that i said admire than neutral is because then it would be too easy to get a playerlist in a majority of the universe... also this would allow newbs to stay in their gov controled area and be relatively safe from pirates becaues they can alwasy see who is in the sector as long as they dont wander and try to explore
I could see having the list availible when you are in a monitored or gaurded sector. That seems like a resonable compromise.
As to the warp out timer, a 5 second timer simply gives you some incentive to get a better distance before you try to jump, It also would give a chasing pirate enough time to get close enough to at least find out where you were heading.
Having the energy usage tweaked is something else I would also like to see. Thats a different subject tho, I posted my thoughs on it here:
http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/5406
As to the warp out timer, a 5 second timer simply gives you some incentive to get a better distance before you try to jump, It also would give a chasing pirate enough time to get close enough to at least find out where you were heading.
Having the energy usage tweaked is something else I would also like to see. Thats a different subject tho, I posted my thoughs on it here:
http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/5406
Leave it in. It's my sensors returning that information. If Pie Rats don't like it, they can either shoot out my sensors or pick a new profession.
( And if they shoot out my sensors, then I can't very well relate potential target information to them...can I?? )
( And if they shoot out my sensors, then I can't very well relate potential target information to them...can I?? )
You don't have sensors to shoot out. And the list detects players beyond radar range. In fact, that post made no sense. Hooray! ;P
Taking it out helps pirates only by allowing them to set ambushes at choke points. It's not a big help at all, but a slight one. Other, bigger changes need to be made to allow the pirate role again.
Taking it out helps pirates only by allowing them to set ambushes at choke points. It's not a big help at all, but a slight one. Other, bigger changes need to be made to allow the pirate role again.
It should only show up if you're within radar range, and the warp timer should be reinstituted.