So now there's two different suggestions. In my suggestion, I'm saying that the difficulty of manuing cappies is double for non subbed players. So double all the parts, including SSS.

As for the original suggestion, I agree with you that the current stats are too lenient with purchased cappies. They need a hard nerf. To make them completely incapable of competing with manued capship on any grounds in any number for any purpose. Cargo reduced by 33%. Max turbo speed by 30 m/s instead of 5 m/s. Shields so weak that the goli can be deshielded by a single swarmstack, while the dent takes double swarms. Incapable of infiniturbo. Goli incapable of equiping qbeams, and dent being capable of equiping the qbeam and nothing else. That's the kind of nerf we need

Now it's so weak why would you spend money on it?

Because it still has more cu than an XC? And shields, however weak they may be. More Armor. Weapons.

A big -1 , several players have built their capships with Behemoth XC when Old m7 station was a thing. Those days there was only Trident Type M available to build - there was no Goliath back in those days or f2p for pc. These days capital ship construction has already became too much easy after "Goliath" was added & all the recent follow/park commands made everything too easy to haul thousands of CU cargo.

Several players have built their capships with behemoth XC. Capship construction should be more time taking if anything.
Selling capships for real money or credits takes away the need to build parts in conquerable stations , it is a bad idea in the long run.

What you actually need to do is join a helpful guild & work together to finish it rather then pestering devs to make everything easily achievable for you.

The proposed purchasable capship is nowhere even close to the power of a manufactured capship. So there is still a lot of incentive to build capships. And getting 100 million or 500 million credits isn't easy, especially considering that it's a purchase that has to be repeated if the capship is destroyed. So we're not asking the devs to make anything "easier" for us. We're saying that there should be another option available, with serious sacrifices.

I'm in favor of making any VO asset purchasable.

+10

if players dont want to build they certainly already have the option to buy and that money is best spent with your local manufacturer, they are out there building and contracting other players.. and think of the poor pirates who need to steal our stuff so their families dont starve! for some of us farming and building are our only sources of income.. it's a big part of our player to player economy and 90% of my assets are obtained from players who are building.

i will say this, the difficulty in obtaining materials to build these ships has increased dramatically and i cant see an average player building a capship in a reasonable amount of time, if at all.. mobile players have it even harder.

it was significantly easier to build a ship in the past, not that it was ever easy. we cant really compare manu and farming of the past to now as its not even the same thing. consider all the ways many people obtained items which are no longer possible.. Lmining alone had a huge impact on farming, not the only thing. The grind was real already but its on another level now..

while i sympathize, im going to be that person who says.. we all had to build our ships and you should too. i didnt just jump into the game and grab a capship after a month. i wouldnt necessarily be opposed to a reasonable adjustment to what is required to build a capship in reflection of all the changes which have happened over the past few years.. but i think buying them from a station is out of the question.

with materials being harder to come by, purchasing a capship from players for credits is a better solution to building it yourself than it has ever been. earning a few million credits a day is very simple and adds up. four million a day will get you a billion in 250 days. you can earn four or five million in an hour with very little effort and no capship. a bil will get you a ship and youll still have more change left over than you could ever spend..

its a luxury in the game and players will get along fine without it. i played my first five years without one, and not because i couldnt afford it. it simply wasnt necessary. i got bored and had nothing else to spend money on.

a big -1 from me.

That is perfectly logical. The average hourly earnings in the U.S. are $31. A goliath cost 1 billion and a trident cost 3 billion. So $100 for a goliath and $300 for a trident. Or about 3 hours of work in the United States for a Goliath and 10 hours for a Trident.

Those of us who are working now can buy capital ships for quite a number of real hours once this suggestion is adopted. I’ve made a lot of money from cryptocurrencies over the years and I think Inc would like to let me spend my profits on trident for each of my friends. More money for him and easier Navies for us. Great battles will be good for the game. Especially when it comes to Steam.

+10

Where did purchase for irl money come into the picture? I thought it was about credits.

Completely agree with Scotiaknight , if you want to buy capships with credits , why not just buy parts from players ?
This suggestion ruins the player to player trading , it removes the fun to take conquerable stations & build parts there , it removes the fun for pirates who loves pirating traders , removes the fun for traders to hire escorts while moving parts , in general why should devs ruin everyone else fun , just because you don't want to work like others or adapt new tactics to build capship ?.

I'd rather suggest GS to start selling limited time edition ship liveries for RL money over selling capship parts or content & make it pay to win. ( but that's whole another suggestion ).

Okay I am 100% going to regret this but here are my arguments.

The title gives away my overall motivation for making this suggestion. I want credits to have more intrinsic value. Having these ships purchasable with IRL money is counter to this completely. Whenever someone makes this suggestion it is immediately followed by some variation of... "I would love killing them" Which is a fantastic motivation for PVP but in a game like VO offering cash shop purchases when players will exterminate them could be perceived as predatory on GS's part. Bad publicity is having someone who, foolishly believes the game to be pay-to-win, writing a terrible review after learning otherwise. Guild Software is a fantastic company, I would loath such a beautiful game and community being viewed negatively.

As during the Goliath test, which I resubbed for and even subbed a few other accounts, this would lead to a resurgence of player activity.

Many are suggesting that these weaker versions should be even weaker and in all honestly, probably yes. It seems to me the best way to balance something like this would be to leave it to Incarnate's wisdom. Let him manage the delicate balance between usable and killable. To be a good credit sink someone would need to be motivated to buy one, and the ship would need to be destroyed by other players. If they are too good they will never be destroyed, if they are too bad no one will fly them.

Manufacturing would not suffer because of this suggestion. Anything that adds value to credits will inevitably improve the player economy and make manufacturing more worthwhile. It will slowly eat away at the credits of super rich players and scale down the price of player manufactured items. And If a player wants to really win? The Trident Type M and Milanar Goliath are still there, still powerful, better than purchasable capital ships in every single way.

As for the price's being too high. I asked a few trusted friend's in VO what a good price would be and picked the highest number. The crewing costs were IonicPaul's idea. The price is high because capital ships are and should be a group effort. My expectation would be guild's helping to fund trusted members. Using personal credits to gift something like this to a close friend. Or being the first goal of new guilds, encouraging player co-operation. But... this is one of those things where I could not pick a better number than Incarnate could. He has the metrics, knows the community and if this were implemented, I imagine that his price's would be different.

A weird little addition to my suggestion is that if this were to be implemented it would be nice if only the Trident type M and Milanar Goliaths had any kind of special livery. I would think it cool also if the Trident Type M and Milanar Goliath should start with a high-tech looking livery that distinguishes them from purchasable variants.

And... I think I said everything I wanted to say. Thank you all for being so polite and nice. This community is truly special not just because you took the time to read this ridiculous essay but because you all argued the merits of the suggestion instead of just telling me off or guessing at my motivations. I'm going to check up on this thread whenever I want an anxiety attack but I think I've said all that could be said. If I remember something else I'll be back.

-1 to buy able capships

"Manufacturing would not suffer because of this suggestion."

Manufacturing & player to player trading is the first thing that will suffer because of this , the right way to build capship is to join a helpful guild & work together to finish it. These days you can already finish "Goliath" in less then a month whether you work solo or in group , this suggestion will remove the need for players to join helpful guilds , to take or ask key for conquerable stations , work together in group activities :- which helps the player learn alot & keeps them around for a while.

Why would anyone will do all that ? If you will be able to buy capships with Credits ? Capitalship construction is an end game goal & should be more time taking if anything.

Please read what aaround wrote. This will increase the involvement of guilds instead of decreasing it. While credits are easier to get than manufacturing a capship, 100 million isn't small. The primary purpose here is not to provide "easy" capital ships. The purpose is to generate some credit-sink.

Also for a moment just forget this is the Goliath or the Trident. Think of them as two completely different, significantly weaker ships. Because that it what it essentially is. Comparing it to the manufactured versions doesn't make sense because they are nowhere near them.

"Please read what aaround wrote."

Please read what "Scotiaknight" wrote & try to understand this from everyone perspective - You can buy capship parts with credits from Trading guilds & some players even give good discounts.Currently if you want capship you can buy parts from players or build solo or work on it with a helping guild/group.

Capship construction is end game goal , if this suggestion got implemented - why would anyone farm , mine , join a guild or even bother about having conquerable station access ? You can just buy it and fly it when it is quiet and rebuy it again & again from GS ?

Capship manufacturing only became easier over the time , do you know about old m7 station ? Or the materials it was used to ask in old trident manufacture mission ?

All those players who built their capships with behemoth XC also had real life but they worked in group to finish it , some even built solo with just behemoth XC. It is called end game goal for a reason.

These days you can build goliath which is super easy to build & then you can easily work on your dent. You need to join a helping guild & work on it in a group or buy capship parts from players over asking devs to sell you capships cheap to ruin everyone's fun...

I'm saying this again. The proposed ships are nowhere close to the manufactured Goliath and Trident. Manufacturing capships is still an endgame goal. I don't think the prospect of having to pay 100 mil for a heavily nerfed goli every time it's killed is a very appealing one. So these ships won't replace the current manufactured ships. They'll be a parallel system independent of the manufactured ones. There will still be the need for the things you mentioned like conq station access, guild help, player to player trade, etc.

"I'm saying this again."

I'm saying this again :- several players have built their capships with Behemoth XC when it was super time taking....
Currently you can hire players/haulers to haul stuff for you. Some friendly guilds sometimes even help for free.
Mostly everyone who built their first capship with behemoth XC did that , you hire player haulers/escorts to help you to mass haul & escort you safely that is the actual way to do it or if you don't want to hire anyone just buy capship parts from players ?

What you're suggesting here is to buy weak variants of capships for cheap from GS to ruin players trading & everything.Some people chose miner roles , hauler roles , farmers roles , pirate roles , trader roles - this idea removes the need for everything including conquerable station as well & that is pointless , what if someone can just keep buying capships with credits because some people already can generate millions of credits per day easy with behemoth XC.
The developers have already added "Goliath" light capship which is easier to build , i have seen some players building them within less then 2 weeks.

You're pestering devs for something which you can already do by hiring players to haul or buy parts from players.
Why should devs ruin everyone else fun just because you don't want to work on it like everyone else did.

I agree with "We all float" & "ScotiaKnight"

A big -1

I'm building my capship in an XC as well.
I'm not pestering the devs last I checked. This is a suggestions forum. We're making arguments for or against something, and if the devs think it's something interesting they look in. I don't see where pestering comes into this.

While I agree that having this option might be appealing to some players, the insurance and the in-general greater stats of the manufactured capships will still be worth it. They will be worth it for me. It's only my opinion I can vouch for. And the ease of getting credits and lack of credit-sinks has lead to a devaluation of credits in the player market. This needs a solution. So this can either be done by (1)making credits harder to get, (2)by increasing prices of existing items, or (3)by creating new expensive items.

(1) will fall unfairly on the newer traders since many older players have huge banks of credits from a time when they were easier to get. The fact that they have more credits is in itself acceptable to me, but not the fact that I and other, newer traders have to grind more to get to that same level. So if credits are to be made harder, it would be necessary to "demonetize" existing credits altogether, which, for obvious reasons, is unacceptable.

(2) will again lead to the same problem. Older players have huge stocks of items they bought for cheaper prices, while new players buy at higher prices. Unfair.

(3) is therefore the only viable option in my opinion. New items can be of a huge variety, but since capships are definitely the most expensive items in the game, that is what had been used here.

And I am definitely not trying to weaken the player market. I have bought and sold capital ship parts, and I will continue doing so. This system should not affect it at all. In contrast, I feel that once players get a "taste" of how capships make work easier, they will try even more to get the manufactured versions.

Please, all, focus on the pros and cons of the suggestion - not on the people discussing them.

making credits harder to get

This has already been done. Before 2020 credits were much easier to acquire.

by increasing prices of existing items

Have you seen the price to reload a TU or a Grav mine?

by creating new expensive items.

Good idea. Just don't devalue current capital ships doing this. Some people put in ridiculous amounts of time building these capships. Did you ever see the old Latos M7? You had to travel like 30k from the jump in point just to get to the docking port.

Instead release something new. Something not a capital ship. Like maybe pool credit resources to build a station or something.