Actually, Everquest developed an IM client that allowed you to PM individuals and directly access the in-house-built, IRC-style, cross-server chat system they used. I'm not certain to what degree this is still supported, but it was a legitimate thing for a time.

+1

I have nothing against people who disagree with me, but if you want to talk in-game, you can really just log in.

I'll be the dissenting voice and +1 this.

Whether there is a good or bad use for IRC is irrelevant. It creates a poor impression of the game as people who aren't even logged in often get into arguments or debates with people who are actually playing. If we're going to grow with v1.9 and expand into Steam, having IRC directly tie into the game through player-run bots is going to hinder growth and adoption.

I wasn't aware there was an /ignore IRC that seems simple enough.

However, why make the actual IN GAME players jump through ANY hoops to ignore IRC? That doesn't block IRC from reading it either.

So a player who might have ignored another player already, still has to jump through more hoops to block them again from 100 because they worked around it with IRC ? So you can /ignore IRC, but you can't block your own chat on 100 FROM IRC.

It's lame to subject an in game players to these types of decisions for possible off game chat / spamming / insulting.
At least make them pay to get in game to insult someone LOL.
No other games allow this for a good reason. Other games also make it so easy to right click and block someone and there is no way to communicate with that person ever again.

Ore is right who's going to jump through all these hoops with mobile devices too. Don't get me wrong it's sort of a cool feature but it's not very practical considering all variants of player age and devices as well.

The question is really about what the company allows and doesn't allow. Currently they allow off game access to in game players. That doesn't sound like a good policy to have and not other games do this that I know of.

but you can't block your own chat on 100 FROM IRC.

So what? You can't block your own chat on 100 from players you ignore, either.

So a player who might have ignored another player already, still has to jump through more hoops to block them again from 100 because they worked around it with IRC ?

Oh teh noes, one whole extra step!

There is also a plugin named IgnoreIRC that works off of your ingame ignore-list to ignore individuals using the relay. This is possible because the current relay requires that a VO character be linked to an IRC nickname to be used. It's not as if just anybody can waltz in and start chatting. Before the advent of Free-to-Play, it was also possible to more or less require that the person have an active subscription by expiring a link after a period of time, necessitating that they login to the game to refresh it.

when every response to a thread is, "theres a plugin for that".

IRC chat is annoying if your enemies are doing it, and it's great if your friends are doing it.

"when every response to a thread is, "theres a plugin for that"."

You're just griping for the hell of it now. Plugins are not necessary to ignore IRC. They just give you the option of selectively ignoring individuals who use IRC instead of ignoring the whole thing. But people like you who don't want to hear anybody from IRC can just use the stock /ignore command.


"That doesn't block IRC from reading it either."

Of course not, because doing that is literally impossible. Even if you completely removed plugins from the game, a relay could be designed to just read the chat log from errors.log and there would be no way for the devs to detect that to punish it. They could get rid of client-side chat logging entirely in order to make a relay more difficult, but that's not something the devs are ever going to do (it would make the customer support side of the job way more hassle). Even if they did, there would still be other ways to pull chat out of the game that they cannot eliminate (reading it out of RAM, or running screen captures through image-to-text software).


"At least make them pay to get in game to insult someone LOL."

I agree with requiring IRC users to have paid subscriptions. The current IRC relay (assuming it incorporates draug's updates) approaches that but isn't quite there yet. It requires you to prove you have a game account, and to say something in-game with that account at least once a month. Prior to free-to-play, this meant that people who didn't have active subscriptions could not use the relay, and that was a mostly good thing. However, the advent of free to play breaks this. That could be corrected by requiring people who want to link up their account to have at least one stat above the F2P level caps. I'd totally support a change like that.


"Other games also make it so easy to right click and block someone and there is no way to communicate with that person ever again."

I agree that our chat interface could do with fancier features, but that is irrelevant to the question of whether IRC relays should be permitted.

Vendetta Offline

IRC allows me to chat when i cant login to VO. not only annoying folks use it.

"when every response to a thread is, "theres a plugin for that"."

You're just griping for the hell of it now

Am I? You guys are programming more features than Guild is. Some of which may never see public release. Not really in the spirit of Open sourcing APIs for the greater good of the community.

The ops of #vorelay are there to moderate the channel and to ensure that the relay isn't being abused for advertising/spam. If you think someone has breached the appropriate use of the IRC relay, feel free to PM an op with your reasons/proof.

to ensure that the relay isn't being abused for advertising/spam

other types of abuse are of course allowed, depending on who is doing the abusing

You really didn't read my last sentence did you? You just thought you'd try and be clever and attempt to pick on one part of my statement while the following one covered exactly what you are talking about.

Bans and/or mutes are handed out on a case by case basis. They can range from 1 day to indefinitely, depending on how badly someone has deviated from a set of "appropriate" guidelines for how the relay should be used.

This includes but isn't limited to:
- Using the relay for the sole purpose of insulting someone in-game
- Being profusely rude
- Evading /vote mutes
- Advertising
- Spamming

All of these actions will usually get you a ban.

Less harmful but still annoying things can get you muted on the relay for several hours. Like just typing things that are non-substantial (e.g. "beeeep").

We'll use discretion where possible, but in the end, like VO in-game chat, every single thing can't be moderated 100% of the time.

No, I read all that you typed. I'm merely pointing out that IRC moderation is biased and those in charge of moderation can commit (and have committed) abuses (such as those you listed as examples) free of punishment.

This ties into my previous point, where IRC is a double edged sword in a sense; good and bad, depending on who is talking and who is in charge and how they feel about you. You can post all the rules you'd like so as to appear to have a reasonable approach to IRC moderation, but in practice it has been shown to not be the case.

I like IRC personally, and I wouldn't like it to be removed. But it shouldn't be dismissed that the operators are not GS employees, have their own personal biases towards who should be banned and who shouldn't, are not subject to any bans themselves for any poor or abusive behavior, and, perhaps most importantly, have access to any and all character links executed from within the game with the IRC account.

So IRC has its problems and its advantages. I think the ability for people to reach into the game and lend a hand via chat is a good thing, ultimately, and, for the most part, worth whatever BS comes along with it.

The guides and forum mods that exist are also not GS employees unless they come up in red here.