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TRS: as has been proven time and time again, travel time difference between serco and itani is so inconsequential it doesn't even matter
Please state three examples of when it has been proven.
Please state three examples of when it has been proven.
I'll start more than three: every time my serco alt has played in a border skirmish. I've played both sides and find the difference completely negligible. Anytime I was beaten by Itani it was because they had superior numbers, not because they were "closer". The difference is literally a matter of 15 seconds or something.
"However, from a backstory perspective...Deneb may be a warzone, but it's one in which the Itani have the upper hand. So there seems to be a justification for the current gameplay imbalance favoring the Itani."
This falls apart imo because everything else involved in those missions is equal. There is no sense when taking a skirmish from the Serco perspective that one is part of an invasion fleet. There is no sense when taking a skirmish from the Itani perspective that one is part of a heroic defense.
Only an insane leader would attempt a conquest without believing that they have some significant advantate on the field of conflict.
As it is currently implemented, everything about the missions screams this is a fair and equal contest (barring the stupidity of the capital ship ai).
This falls apart imo because everything else involved in those missions is equal. There is no sense when taking a skirmish from the Serco perspective that one is part of an invasion fleet. There is no sense when taking a skirmish from the Itani perspective that one is part of a heroic defense.
Only an insane leader would attempt a conquest without believing that they have some significant advantate on the field of conflict.
As it is currently implemented, everything about the missions screams this is a fair and equal contest (barring the stupidity of the capital ship ai).
Lecter: there are only turrets in Deneb o3. The other itani stations don't have them.
You'll notice I said "defenses" not specifically or limited to turrets. The other Itani stations have unlimited waves of SF to launch.
There is zero debate that the Itani have advantages in Deneb from ease/speed of resupply and greater ability to choke off Serco resupply/greater difficulty in Serco choking Itani resupply (one transit option vs. three). For Itani, they jump straight to one of three possible stations, all of which have defenses to respond to pursuit. For Serco, they must go to one WH location that has no defenses at all.
The only question is whether achieving greater gameplay balance in that area is worth whatever wrenching of the backstory that would be required. Putting a fleet of Serco capital warships at the Deneb side of their WH would fix things rather well, without gutting the backstory aspect of Deneb being a contested ITANI system.
Only an insane leader...
I have one word for you: SERCO.
You'll notice I said "defenses" not specifically or limited to turrets. The other Itani stations have unlimited waves of SF to launch.
There is zero debate that the Itani have advantages in Deneb from ease/speed of resupply and greater ability to choke off Serco resupply/greater difficulty in Serco choking Itani resupply (one transit option vs. three). For Itani, they jump straight to one of three possible stations, all of which have defenses to respond to pursuit. For Serco, they must go to one WH location that has no defenses at all.
The only question is whether achieving greater gameplay balance in that area is worth whatever wrenching of the backstory that would be required. Putting a fleet of Serco capital warships at the Deneb side of their WH would fix things rather well, without gutting the backstory aspect of Deneb being a contested ITANI system.
Only an insane leader...
I have one word for you: SERCO.
yeah I noticed what you typed, did you?
And again, from a gameplay perspective, a destructible HAC just isn't as serious a threat as the turrets present at the Itani stations/WH
There is plenty of debate to be had. An attempt to choke off serco access comes at the cost of not being involved in the skirmish itself. Furthermore, Serco can bring their tridents into Deneb MUCH easier than Itani can bring theirs into Geira. Itani have no strike force to pursue them since all the non-station sectors are unmonitored, so they can park wherever they want with little fear of discovery.
I think the best case to be made is a conquerable station of some type (with 2 guard SF, but no turrets). Maybe one with capitol ship access in Deneb B12 that either trades hands or has itani and serco docks that activate depending who won the skirmishes the previous week? Access has proven to be much more sought after than stats.
And again, from a gameplay perspective, a destructible HAC just isn't as serious a threat as the turrets present at the Itani stations/WH
There is plenty of debate to be had. An attempt to choke off serco access comes at the cost of not being involved in the skirmish itself. Furthermore, Serco can bring their tridents into Deneb MUCH easier than Itani can bring theirs into Geira. Itani have no strike force to pursue them since all the non-station sectors are unmonitored, so they can park wherever they want with little fear of discovery.
I think the best case to be made is a conquerable station of some type (with 2 guard SF, but no turrets). Maybe one with capitol ship access in Deneb B12 that either trades hands or has itani and serco docks that activate depending who won the skirmishes the previous week? Access has proven to be much more sought after than stats.
This isn't about Deneb. Its about Geira Rutilus. However, if you want Deneb to succeed, you'll need to level the playing field and protect the GR border with turrets, otherwise it is as broke as it ever was and everyone will head back to grey space to torment TGFT.
This thread only serves to boost wally's fragile ego.
Sure was fun killing you all last night.
Oh Inc, they blew up your HAC.
This thread only serves to boost wally's fragile ego.
Sure was fun killing you all last night.
Oh Inc, they blew up your HAC.
An attempt to choke off serco access comes at the cost of not being involved in the skirmish itself
Not helping your argument - an attempt to choke off Itani access has the same cost but multiplied by a factor of three plus SF and possibly turrets.
Serco can bring their tridents into Deneb MUCH easier than Itani can bring theirs into Geira.
So? Geria is not a designated warzone.
I think the best case to be made is a conquerable station of some type (with 2 guard SF, but no turrets). Maybe one with capitol ship access in Deneb B12 that either trades hands or has itani and serco docks that activate depending who won the skirmishes the previous week? Access has proven to be much more sought after than stats.
Given the current imbalance in favor of the Itani, you propose giving them the chance to capture a station AT THE SERCO WARP-IN? lol Yeah, that's balanced. The day the Deneb O-3 station becomes conquerable, your suggestion would have merit.
Not helping your argument - an attempt to choke off Itani access has the same cost but multiplied by a factor of three plus SF and possibly turrets.
Serco can bring their tridents into Deneb MUCH easier than Itani can bring theirs into Geira.
So? Geria is not a designated warzone.
I think the best case to be made is a conquerable station of some type (with 2 guard SF, but no turrets). Maybe one with capitol ship access in Deneb B12 that either trades hands or has itani and serco docks that activate depending who won the skirmishes the previous week? Access has proven to be much more sought after than stats.
Given the current imbalance in favor of the Itani, you propose giving them the chance to capture a station AT THE SERCO WARP-IN? lol Yeah, that's balanced. The day the Deneb O-3 station becomes conquerable, your suggestion would have merit.
Lecter, my argument is that trying to prevent people from accessing the Deneb activities isn't as effective as you think it is. Even if it's harder to blockade the Itani.
The station doesn't have to be at the WH.
The station doesn't have to be at the WH.
Even if it's harder to blockade the Itani.
This is the only point I have actually argued in this thread, thank you for finally conceding it.
The best solution in here, in terms of adding balance while preserving backstory, is putting a non-station Serco military force (including dockable cap ships) at the Deneb side of the WH. If the Itani want to blow them up, they can restore the current balance; if the Serco defend them, they're better off than they are now re: resupply while still not as well off as the Itani. But it is an Itani system.
This is the only point I have actually argued in this thread, thank you for finally conceding it.
The best solution in here, in terms of adding balance while preserving backstory, is putting a non-station Serco military force (including dockable cap ships) at the Deneb side of the WH. If the Itani want to blow them up, they can restore the current balance; if the Serco defend them, they're better off than they are now re: resupply while still not as well off as the Itani. But it is an Itani system.
I disagree with the addition of station defense turrets, and it's not because of any back story issues. Currently the only stations with turrets are those in wormhole sectors on the edge of nation space. These aren't there to protect the station, but to defend the wormhole from invaders.
I do agree with the addition of turrets at the Geira Rutilus wormhole for the purposes of border defense, especially because it's on a border to a war zone.
Where I am conflicted is on how strong they should be. While an interim measure would be to just place standard wormhole turrets, I don't think they should remain this way.
Considering the intended dynamic nature of the Deneb war zone, I think it would go a long way to making things interesting if defense turrets in Deneb were removed and the defense turrets in Eo and Geira Rutilis had to be built and upgraded through missions, but that's just slightly off topic for this thread.
I do agree with the addition of turrets at the Geira Rutilus wormhole for the purposes of border defense, especially because it's on a border to a war zone.
Where I am conflicted is on how strong they should be. While an interim measure would be to just place standard wormhole turrets, I don't think they should remain this way.
Considering the intended dynamic nature of the Deneb war zone, I think it would go a long way to making things interesting if defense turrets in Deneb were removed and the defense turrets in Eo and Geira Rutilis had to be built and upgraded through missions, but that's just slightly off topic for this thread.
For now, this subject requires considerably more time for players to weigh in.
Bullshit. Players have been weighing in on this for years.
Bullshit. Players have been weighing in on this for years.
I'll start more than three: every time my serco alt has played in a border skirmish. I've played both sides and find the difference completely negligible. Anytime I was beaten by Itani it was because they had superior numbers, not because they were "closer". The difference is literally a matter of 15 seconds or something.
Well that's like, your opinion, man. Far from being proof, it's a complete load of bullocks. It takes time to get through wormholes, each one requires you to travel about 2000m before you jump. The Serco have to do it twice, the itani only have to do it once; ergo it takes twice as long for Serco to return to the battlefield. There's no real story justification for this, it's just plain bias towards the Itani side.
Well that's like, your opinion, man. Far from being proof, it's a complete load of bullocks. It takes time to get through wormholes, each one requires you to travel about 2000m before you jump. The Serco have to do it twice, the itani only have to do it once; ergo it takes twice as long for Serco to return to the battlefield. There's no real story justification for this, it's just plain bias towards the Itani side.
+1 to add a Serco fleet that guards the Deneb side of the wormhole. This adds gameplay content by providing a place for Serco players to reload and repair, as well as a combat goal for players to try and destroy and defend it.
a destructible HAC just isn't as serious a threat as the turrets present at the Itani stations/WH
A HAC that is easily destroyed and spends half its time in SOL II.
Do you have any idea how difficult it is to actually kill that HAC without NPC support and with an infinite supply of station guards and strike forces trying to stop you? Make an Itani character and try to take down SMV Nemesis. Let me know when you do and I'll even help. We just did this on Monday and after many hours of constant bombardnment, dying repeatedly to SF and players alike.
...each one requires you to travel about 2000m before you jump. The Serco have to do it twice, the itani only have to do it once; ergo it takes twice as long for Serco to return to the battlefield
Itani have to fly >5000m to clear the ice field in Deneb O-3. You're highly exaggerating whatever advantage we have in this case. Let's not forget Serco newbs and f2p players can buy the fastest damn fighter this side of Ukari...
a destructible HAC just isn't as serious a threat as the turrets present at the Itani stations/WH
A HAC that is easily destroyed and spends half its time in SOL II.
Do you have any idea how difficult it is to actually kill that HAC without NPC support and with an infinite supply of station guards and strike forces trying to stop you? Make an Itani character and try to take down SMV Nemesis. Let me know when you do and I'll even help. We just did this on Monday and after many hours of constant bombardnment, dying repeatedly to SF and players alike.
...each one requires you to travel about 2000m before you jump. The Serco have to do it twice, the itani only have to do it once; ergo it takes twice as long for Serco to return to the battlefield
Itani have to fly >5000m to clear the ice field in Deneb O-3. You're highly exaggerating whatever advantage we have in this case. Let's not forget Serco newbs and f2p players can buy the fastest damn fighter this side of Ukari...
Well that's like, your opinion, man.
A very well-informed opinion. I've fought more skirmishes against this guy than all of the Serco characters posting in this thread combined.
You're out of your element, TRS.
A very well-informed opinion. I've fought more skirmishes against this guy than all of the Serco characters posting in this thread combined.
You're out of your element, TRS.
ARF, sounds like you are ok if Deneb and Eo lose the turrets. And instead Deneb O-3 gets a HAC (that spends half its time in Itan).
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Side idea, lets get rid of defense turrets completely, and replace them with HACs on all borders of all nations. That sounds good, right Arf?
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Side idea, lets get rid of defense turrets completely, and replace them with HACs on all borders of all nations. That sounds good, right Arf?
serco newbs still play Deneb... they don't have the distance perception issue. Only serco vets need to be convinced. If giving them a HAC and Teradon in B-12 helps smooth this out, great.
Lol that's the dumbest idea yet.
Was it dumb before or after I agreed with Lecter on it?
Both before and after.
I have other issues with Deneb but this one I didn't really consider to be a real problem for few different reasons. I never considered that noobs would get ganked on the Deneb side prior to even getting to work on their mission.
In the past there was never enough players around to blockade anything. They card little about Deneb as well. I have followed the Deneb stats occasionally over the last 2 years and didn't see a HUGE increase in Deneb player assisted wins except variably and intermittently.
I never liked the fact that Itani can bomb run and explode using their own ship as a weapon then spawn at the station and back in the battle in 1 jump and about 10 seconds.
It does take Serco a long time even if exploding back to station. Long ride to WH then long right to battle sector.
I don't really understand exactly why it's like that. Why not put Itani station on the other side of the WH too if this is disputed territory then why is there stations there.
Doesn't really seem disputed if they are constructed with strongholds there already.
How bout make it dynamic Deneb stations ?
If Serco win the Deneb map for the week turn those stations into Serco Stations.
Yeahs that sounds like a winner.
Since there is no real advantage according to Itani's then this should be no problem. It would be even Steven with no advantage at all except for bragging rights right ?
Why not ?
In the past there was never enough players around to blockade anything. They card little about Deneb as well. I have followed the Deneb stats occasionally over the last 2 years and didn't see a HUGE increase in Deneb player assisted wins except variably and intermittently.
I never liked the fact that Itani can bomb run and explode using their own ship as a weapon then spawn at the station and back in the battle in 1 jump and about 10 seconds.
It does take Serco a long time even if exploding back to station. Long ride to WH then long right to battle sector.
I don't really understand exactly why it's like that. Why not put Itani station on the other side of the WH too if this is disputed territory then why is there stations there.
Doesn't really seem disputed if they are constructed with strongholds there already.
How bout make it dynamic Deneb stations ?
If Serco win the Deneb map for the week turn those stations into Serco Stations.
Yeahs that sounds like a winner.
Since there is no real advantage according to Itani's then this should be no problem. It would be even Steven with no advantage at all except for bragging rights right ?
Why not ?