There's more players who own Tridents now than there are active guild officers.

Alarm bells should be ringing when you read this. In other words, its easier to spend 6 weeks full time grinding than it is to become a lieutenant or commander in a guild.

Your comparison doesn't make any sense.

It doesn't make any sense why you would oppose this suggestion, other than to just annoy TRS and savet. It's no secret that you hate them with passion.

Your comment doesn't make any sense either, joylessjoker. Clearly I am in support of this change under the correct circumstances.

It's ARF's comparison, my suggestion is that the amount of active lieutenants and commanders in VO should easily outstrip the number of Trident owners because you should be able to promote a number of people in your guild to recruitment responsibilities. People earn that privilege in most guilds before they earn a trident.

I was recruiting for FAMY well before I built my trident and I've promoted over 10 people to positions of authority in RED who I couldn't promote to recruitment positions but wanted to.

This is exactly the point I was trying to make.

In a normal MMO, you can pretty much join a guild as easy as you can fart, cup your hand, lift it to your nose, and take a deep contemplative sniff.

In Vendetta Online, the established guilds are super picky, and the newbie guilds may or may not be online.

You can argue whether this is a big deal or not, but the fact is that little details matter. Players come to vendetta from games like WoW or The Eternal Black and they are conditioned to being bombarded by guild invites. They expect to be a valued commodity. Then they find that they have to go out of game to join a guild, make an application on a website, and jump through 14 hoops while 3 of them are set on fire.

1. New player perception is that the game is empty.
2. This is not good for player retention.
3. Bad player retention is bad for guild growth.
4. Lack of guild growth contributes to the problem we have now.
5. The problem we have now contributes to the perception that the game is stagnant or dying.

This will not solve every problem, but it will be one major step in the right direction.

I see what you are trying to say now, but I still don't see how trident ownership has any bearing on this conversation. Trident ownership is but one major accomplishment (albeit, the greatest) in the game that takes many months to obtain. Leadership positions have always been completely isolated from any in-game accomplishment requirements.

ARF was making the point that there are more trident owners than guild leaders therefore the time is better spent for instance on Trident related content. However as me and Savet have both submitted, that argument is missing the point entirely which is that there should be far more guild leaders than trident owners because the guild system should be flexible enough to accommodate that.

Savet and TRS is 100% right on this. Most mmos have better guild systems and that is what powers the game in the sense that people log in and stay subscribed because of the gameplay that arises from being in a guild.

Its great that as an individual player in the game you can do all this stuff without a guild. Solo a trident or solo a station etc.. But ultimately without guilds the game would be a very empty lackluster one. There hasn't been any real meaningful additions to anything guild related since the guild bank system was put in but even that has very little purpose at the moment.

Can we make overhauling the guild system a priorty? Its great to have fog blobs and graphical updates but ultimately we need some changes for guilds and they need to be done sooner than soon tm.

- lift limitations on council lt and commanders
-allow more guild structure customization
-allow guilds to officially set diplomatic relations with each other (truce , treaty, pact, war) Would be nice if after declaring war on the radar map show warring people as red but this can wait.
-setup a system where you can apply to guilds ingame and approve recruits ingame even if they arent currently online.
- make the guild bank mean something

There's a lot of content guilds create (look how many battles and forum posts have occurred just because of Skv tgft war) so if you give guilds some simple abilities it will only increase the content and action ingame without you devs having to create it.

Yeah, you'll have to do some work to make this all happen but too bad! We are paying you to play and work on this game. Get some interns and give them something meaningful to work on for once.

+1 to YuuTuu. Guilds are a vital part of this game. They hold much more factional importance than the in-game factions do, and they get stale. I will continue to bump this until it becomes a priority. And yes, hire some interns
There are even plenty of tech savvy players on vendetta online.

Well in this case there is no additional coding work necessary just a decision so we will see how it goes come next week.

In this case the hesitation in implementing is because of potential coding work to mitigate problems that result from the policy change. It's a legitimate concern.

Go ahead and put this into play, along with all the other guild changes suggested by incarnate. I predict you will see that it is not the huge improvement to the game that many of you are selling it as. I predict it will result in zero net player retention increase and that the game will remain largely as it is. And you will all be left whining why we don't have more cool things to do in the game, and the answer will be: because incarnate spent X amount of time making your stupid guild changes.

I hope I'm wrong!

You probably are greenwall. It just seems that no matter what anyone suggests you decide to go against the grain unless its one of your bogus suggestions like making accounts transferrable/sellable because that's important??

If you don't like the idea that's fine but there is no need to make a bunch of combative and unconstructive posts. Throw your + or - up there, state your opinion and stick the topic.

-to the devs. I realize that this is probably more work than it sounds to us but please keep this in mind as there are a lot of people running guilds it seems posting in support of this suggestion from all across the board.

I don't think your assessment of my contributions in these forums is accurate, Yuutuu1. There's a difference between combative posts and legitimate criticisms. Typically if you feel a topic cannot have any legitimate criticisms, it is much easier for you to view criticisms as excessive and unfair/unworthy/out-of-place.

As I have said more than once, I am FOR this change, but do not see how it can possibly deserve a priority spot for the reasons posted above. If incarnate implements it, great. If incarnate implements it and it causes a bunch of problems and delays other much more important shit the game needs -- NOT GREAT. Will I be devasted if it is not implemented? Not at all, since I don't feel like it will make a huge difference to the game as a whole.

I do have to say that I agree with greenwall on this one, and that makes me want to pull my own arms off and feed myself the soggy ends.

Although I do agree that a lot of new guys will be coming from games like WoW, and EvE and STO where guilds are shoved down your throats, I find it refreshing that VO isn't one of them typical MMO's. And you should be glad it isn't too. Sure, the first thing a lot of new players ask is "CAN I TEAM" or "CAN I JOIN YOU" it is probably better to say "NO".

In fact it is probably better just to explain to new players that they should find their own way first, I mean no dis-respect to people, but the amount of players who just ignore those begging for a team is disgraceful. Try being more newb friendly and tell them (via PM and whatnot) that they are better off alone for a while.

I try to.

There are a few players that will consistently oppose my suggestions. ARF and greenwall are good examples. They view things that I suggest as having a hidden agenda and oppose them on any basis they can.

Think of it like congress or parliament, theyre in opposition they feel obliged to speak out against me vocally but its up to you to judge the merits of their arguments and decide.

;)

Whatever you end up doing though, don't elect them to office. They are both terrible leaders.

Authorised by [RED] Espionage for the Red Eternal Dominion party Initros O-12

{Bumpity Bump!}

Did Ray get any chance to look at this during the week? Can we start requesting multiple officers yet?

I recommend you start posting pictures of crickets. It worked for savet.