Forums » Suggestions
The delay for the Capital Swarm Launchers is currently 45s seconds or something crazy.
I suggest it be given the normal delay that the usual chaos swarm launchers that fire 8 rockets have. That's fair considering we are in a hardly maneuverable Trident here which can only fire 6 rockets per volley anyway.
(I don't think the 45s delay was intended in the first place, the devs just probably forgot to tweak that)
I suggest it be given the normal delay that the usual chaos swarm launchers that fire 8 rockets have. That's fair considering we are in a hardly maneuverable Trident here which can only fire 6 rockets per volley anyway.
(I don't think the 45s delay was intended in the first place, the devs just probably forgot to tweak that)
+45
+1 -- but I thought this was the same delay they've had for quite some time
They have a large delay because it has an infinite supply. The delay is the same as npc.
-1
-1
+1 to a lower delay since 45s is pretty excessive, but not one that matches the L-port swarms.
Like people say, it's the same as the NPC limit. It's to prevent network spam from becoming too excessive, because the swarms are kinda of a worst-case offender in that area. And NPCs only have two launchers, players can configure more than that.
It was intended, and will remain for the moment. But, I'll think about dropping it, maybe to 30s or so.
It was intended, and will remain for the moment. But, I'll think about dropping it, maybe to 30s or so.
At least make them fire all 8 swarms in a salvo. They only fire 6.
No, I intentionally reduced the number to 6, again, to reduce the network impact of these kinds of player-driven swarm machines.
You can already push out 24 missiles at once, and in future types of capships that may go up even further. I'll revise all of this if we engineer a new swarm-type that doesn't actually use individual homing missiles for every shot, but that'll take some meaningful dev time to research, create and test.
You can already push out 24 missiles at once, and in future types of capships that may go up even further. I'll revise all of this if we engineer a new swarm-type that doesn't actually use individual homing missiles for every shot, but that'll take some meaningful dev time to research, create and test.
We regularly pump out over 134 missiles at a time aboard Ragnaroks, dock to reload, then do it again... during a Border Skirmish mission with dozens of bots and hundreds of shots flying everywhere. The game handles it fine, good job Guild Software.
In all of this excess caution over a problem that isn't a problem, you've made a capship turret weapon that fails miserably at its most important task: Being a useful defense.
You can already push out 24 missiles at once
If you're dumb enough to equip 4 of these, rendering your ship pretty much defenseless against anything that could actually take down the shield.
Let's do some math:
850 damage * 6 missiles = 5100 damage every 45 seconds
One salvo won't kill an EC-89 sitting perfectly still.
This is in contrast to the Gemini turret we already have which puts out:
950 damage * 2 missiles * (45s / 1.5s delay) = 57000 every 45 seconds
Assuming every missile hits and deals full damage, which is not the case for either missiles, especially against players or when launched at speeds > 100m/s, like from a fleeing Trident. Keep in mind the Geminis aren't a very good defense either, they're just all we've had that's worth a damn for years.
How much armor does a Devus Guardian have? How about 6 NPC squadron Vulture MkIVs which can shred your ship in 45 seconds.
Please factor in player use-cases when you're trying to balance weapons...
In all of this excess caution over a problem that isn't a problem, you've made a capship turret weapon that fails miserably at its most important task: Being a useful defense.
You can already push out 24 missiles at once
If you're dumb enough to equip 4 of these, rendering your ship pretty much defenseless against anything that could actually take down the shield.
Let's do some math:
850 damage * 6 missiles = 5100 damage every 45 seconds
One salvo won't kill an EC-89 sitting perfectly still.
This is in contrast to the Gemini turret we already have which puts out:
950 damage * 2 missiles * (45s / 1.5s delay) = 57000 every 45 seconds
Assuming every missile hits and deals full damage, which is not the case for either missiles, especially against players or when launched at speeds > 100m/s, like from a fleeing Trident. Keep in mind the Geminis aren't a very good defense either, they're just all we've had that's worth a damn for years.
How much armor does a Devus Guardian have? How about 6 NPC squadron Vulture MkIVs which can shred your ship in 45 seconds.
Please factor in player use-cases when you're trying to balance weapons...
You tell him ARF! Haha. But he's right.
+45 ARF
a single swarm salvo is too easy to avoid to be that pitiful. Each missile should receive a substantial buff to damage if you're reducing the general spam of the weapon. I'd say at least a doubling of damage per missile, perhaps a tripling.
How about we get rid of swarms altogether. Replace them with a dumbfire missile that can be stacked easily for deshielding. Then your defensive weapon can be a longer range flachete cannon. Along with the existing homing missile options, this covers all the points and removes the annoying characteristics of swarms, both the technical and in game.
You've hit a new low, Ender. You're anti-content. Get him!
How about nope, Cellsafemode.
So what we have is a really cool (if not THE coolest) weapon, which in many cases plays an essential role in various types of combat, that eats up network resources more than any other weapon in game. I would guess the nerf to turrets was done in lieu of nerfing swarms all together to mitigate the anger of players. My question is, in the months (years?... i've lost track) since the firing delay of swarm turrets has been introduced, has it had any real impact on the network traffic? From our perspective, the amount of swarms fired from rags hugely outweighs any that were ever fired from trident swarm turrets in Deneb or critical skirms... so how much of a difference has it really made?
The delay was accepted by players in general because, on the whole, nobody really used the turrets that much to begin with. Making it a weapon we can now buy and equip is bringing it back into view because we WANT to use it, but it sucks too much.
At the end of the day I don't care much about making the swarm turrets better if it's gonna suck up a bunch of dev time. We have gems and firecrackers, and if we want to launch unlimited swarm salvos at people from tridents we can just use a ragnarok from our hangar.
I vote for leaving them be (or removing them from stations) and letting the devs focus on other improvements.
So what we have is a really cool (if not THE coolest) weapon, which in many cases plays an essential role in various types of combat, that eats up network resources more than any other weapon in game. I would guess the nerf to turrets was done in lieu of nerfing swarms all together to mitigate the anger of players. My question is, in the months (years?... i've lost track) since the firing delay of swarm turrets has been introduced, has it had any real impact on the network traffic? From our perspective, the amount of swarms fired from rags hugely outweighs any that were ever fired from trident swarm turrets in Deneb or critical skirms... so how much of a difference has it really made?
The delay was accepted by players in general because, on the whole, nobody really used the turrets that much to begin with. Making it a weapon we can now buy and equip is bringing it back into view because we WANT to use it, but it sucks too much.
At the end of the day I don't care much about making the swarm turrets better if it's gonna suck up a bunch of dev time. We have gems and firecrackers, and if we want to launch unlimited swarm salvos at people from tridents we can just use a ragnarok from our hangar.
I vote for leaving them be (or removing them from stations) and letting the devs focus on other improvements.
Then your defensive weapon can be a longer range flachete cannon.
^ I wanted Gatling turrets, honestly.
Cellsafemode: We'd probably use weapons like the Neutron Blaster or the new Capital Cannon more often if the Trident didn't have the worst turret positions of any ship in the game.
If you want to hit a player or bot that's sitting in your enormous rear blind spot, homing missiles are your only option.
As for a dumbfire missile that can be stacked to deshield things, we have that: It's called the Avalon. Jackhammers work too. It's pretty fun, try it some time.
^ I wanted Gatling turrets, honestly.
Cellsafemode: We'd probably use weapons like the Neutron Blaster or the new Capital Cannon more often if the Trident didn't have the worst turret positions of any ship in the game.
If you want to hit a player or bot that's sitting in your enormous rear blind spot, homing missiles are your only option.
As for a dumbfire missile that can be stacked to deshield things, we have that: It's called the Avalon. Jackhammers work too. It's pretty fun, try it some time.
We regularly pump out over 134 missiles at a time aboard Ragnaroks, dock to reload, then do it again... during a Border Skirmish mission with dozens of bots and hundreds of shots flying everywhere. The game handles it fine, good job Guild Software.
In all of this excess caution over a problem that isn't a problem, you've made a capship turret weapon that fails miserably at its most important task: Being a useful defense.
Just because you don't understand the problem, or don't personally see it, does not mean it doesn't exist. We've studied this quite a bit. The dumb-fire swarm case where you're doing a "bombing run" is far less likely to demonstrate the issues (optimal interpolation and server-side packet optimization), but that doesn't mean there aren't issues.
I'm not reacting to some magical invented concern in my head.. these weapons were originally intended to be in far greater numbers (big-ass clouds of them), but that is just not feasible at present, and breaks down badly. Swarm missiles are well-known internally to be one of our worst cases, and it definitely impacts players. So, yes, I am careful.
I've dropped the firing delay from 45 to 10 seconds. That means up to 3 groups can be in-flight at any given time. We'll see how that goes.
In all of this excess caution over a problem that isn't a problem, you've made a capship turret weapon that fails miserably at its most important task: Being a useful defense.
Just because you don't understand the problem, or don't personally see it, does not mean it doesn't exist. We've studied this quite a bit. The dumb-fire swarm case where you're doing a "bombing run" is far less likely to demonstrate the issues (optimal interpolation and server-side packet optimization), but that doesn't mean there aren't issues.
I'm not reacting to some magical invented concern in my head.. these weapons were originally intended to be in far greater numbers (big-ass clouds of them), but that is just not feasible at present, and breaks down badly. Swarm missiles are well-known internally to be one of our worst cases, and it definitely impacts players. So, yes, I am careful.
I've dropped the firing delay from 45 to 10 seconds. That means up to 3 groups can be in-flight at any given time. We'll see how that goes.
No one dumb fires swarms to do bombing runs
It's close to it, regardless. They're extremely linear, very little tracking or variance in path, which ends up making for ideal client prediction.
Thanks Inc! That should make them much more usable.