-1 for "forcing" us to go to Deneb without reducing the tedious flight. Flying 6 or 9 wormholes, 12 to 18 jumps, through total flyover country isn't anywhere near what I would consider fun. Unless they do something about that, either by dropping some systems, allowing shortcut wormholes, or making safe travel less boring, I don't see many players (especially Itani) trekking up and down between Deneb and Grey.

I think "military" should be broader than Deneb, the grey border should also offer military missions directed against both pirates and the enemy. Deneb could, however, be the easiest place to get military promotion. Still, I think that they should cut the travel time somehow,

Link to old proposal with maps: http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/27530#334105

There's already a solution to cut travel time: alts.

Greenwall brings up a good point. Personally I've found that for me six character slots allow more characters than I use regularly so I parked one in Deneb and there it stays. When I want to do deneb missions I switch characters. The remaining four characters I have receive probably less than 1% of my playing time.

Jesus guys, look at the map, imagine all of Serco and Itani space is not there exept for Jallik and Initros.Now tell me if that changes anything in this game. It doesnt. Thats all we need, and that has to change. If all the good stuff is spread out across the map evenly then you wouldnt have alts to save travel time. You have alts because right now all that nation space from grey to Deneb is completely useless.Its a long and boring, and meaningless trip, thats why you have alts. Everything the game has to offer is between Jallik and Initros, and then there is Deneb thats on the other side of the galaxy so we eather dont go there because its a long way or we make an alt that sits there for occasional Deneb run. As I said, look at the map, cover up everything exept the area from Jalik to Initros.. and you wonder why nobody is in Deneb?

There absolutelly must be something in Sol II and Itan that draws people of those factions like crazy, and there must be something that attracts everyone to Deneb, like military ships. Stop basing everything in Grey space, like nation wars.. there should be Deneb events instead. Right now pirates have everything, why stay in your nation space? Oh and your alts wont help if proms and valks are military only and sold in Geira and Deneb, you wont bother to travel all that way to pvp in Sedina.Youll do it a few times of course, but eventually youll just choose 1 jump into war than 50 jumps into now almost empty Sedina.

@greewall: Thank you for pointing out all that is wrong with Deneb :-)

Whenever alts are the answer, something is wrong with the game. For example, alts or even second subs were used for trident pilots since they couldn't load their own ship or man their own guns and would have to travel miles to switch boats. This is now (partly?) solved by changes in trident ship control and no doubt more changes are coming up.

For Deneb alts, not only is it a hack rather than a solution that clearly shows that players are working around the design of the game, it also means that adding rewards to deneb will not benefit your 'main' character.

Your main character is where you wanna spend most of your time, and thats the Jallik-Initros. If the sweetspot was Deneb then that would not be a place for your alts, so hell yes it would affect your main character.Anyway, why are we even talking about alts? The point is in where the sweet spot at the moment is, and thats not Deneb.

The attraction of Red and Blue space is safety from conflict (at least, the parts between either border). The attraction of gray space is the opposite, which is why most people dillydally around in gray (apart from those on missions of manufacturing or otherwise). I agree more could be done, but make another thread.

How the heck are alts a hack? I guess if you consider playing the game as the devs intended a hack, then yes it's a hack. Otherwise you are crazy. Don't try to enforce your bizarre rules of what can and can't be the purpose of additional characters upon the rest of us.

Exactly, faction space is safe because Aaagain, everything is set up perfectly around grey spaces.Why would anyone want to fight in Deneb when all the best equipment is packed closely together on the other side of the galaxy?Nobody wants to fly all this way to get it.

Im not seeing anything as restricting, im seeing this as spreading out gear across the map. It makes sense that the 2 nations would have their assembly lines at the border, pushing all resources there. It should be where the hearts of the nations are. If they can make their best ships across the universe and sell in unlimited quantities then theyre doing a half assed job at pushing for a win. Youd think that all those years of constant fight would hit their coffers..

Well I think offering NEW things to the deneb participants is worthwhile. But restricting existing stuff is not. Everyone wants to try the new thing. Not everyone cares about losing access to an existing thing.

Alts are not the solution, since the access to ships would be on a per-character basis, not per account.

"Alts are not the solution, since the access to ships would be on a per-character basis, not per account."

That is exactly what I mean by saying it does not affect your main character. Your main (i.e. greyspace-parked) character does not benefit from drops, military rank, ship purchases etc. I guess you could transfer the stuff from your alt to your main by dropping it, quickly switching alts, and getting it again, but that is just a hack on a hack.

@Greenwall: you can do whatever you want wherever you want to do it, I'm not trying to restrict anything. What I am suggesting is that to make Deneb attractive as a place to get missions, the devs should (A) add more rewards, and (B) cut travel time. If the universe is altered in the way I suggested earlier, B is achieved without removing any possibilities for gameplay. In fact, it will add possibilities by making the main highway (grey - capital - deneb) more busy and slightly more dangerous, and allowing the flyover systems to get more character by being further removed from the main drag. In fact, I think I will renew my suggestion in a separate thread now Inc seems to be paying attention to the /3 forum again: http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/28480

[rant: In my perspective, which you are free to disregard, the purpose of alts is to be able to have different play styles on one subscription, e.g. a Serco and an Itan character, a trader and a pirate and a warrior. I don't think the intention is to work around problems that prevent the enjoyment of a single play style, e.g. two warrior types in Deneb and grey, separated by nothing but boring travel time. If there is a separate military/deneb and grey-based advancement path then it might make sense to have two characters, i.e. one daredevil Han Solo type trader in grey, and one military carreer type in Deneb. But as it stands the advancement paths for deneb and grey-based warriors is identical (home standing, warrior skills, pvp badges). So, it does not make sense to 'force' a player to use alts to cut the tedium. Whenever a large number of players use alts in that fashion, it should be a sign to the devs that something is broken.]

I have to agree with vanwhatsits(on my phone & not inclined to go out of my way for the name) point. It would become meaningful if the devs ever inflict limitations to ship accessibility upon players. The current system works fine, but it is a player work around.

I neither agree or disssgree with a shortcut to Deneb. There should be some consequences to decisions and activities that players choose. Is 15 minutes in a hog 2 really unreasonable?

You wanna add stuff rather than restrict? While that does 'sound' good, its not. I dont understand why its so complicated to you. While there are many types of players, we only need one of the types in Deneb.Its the people who login, hop into their favourite ship, and go at it with eachother. Do you think that a guy who's favourite ship is the greyhound, in which hes spending all his time killing people in grey, is gonna go to Deneb and stay there as his main region of choice, and fly a mk4 hog because you gonna add some missions? Right now the pvp loving people stay in grey because everything the game has to offer for all walks of combat pilots is around there, while Deneb is on the opposite side.So if you wanna add stuff rather than spread it out then there must be a dozen new ships made and placed near Deneb that are much better than RevCs, Corvults, Greyhogs, SkyProms, Valks, TungTaur, etc (which are all available in a cluster on the OPPOSITE side of the galaxy) because people just love fighting and love these ships, and you are trying to draw them to fight where its the least conveniant to them.duh.Never gonna happen.

Take me for example. I exclusively only do pvp and the only ships I use are: Prom, Corvult, RevC. Now where do you think I'll set my home station?Deneb? As much as Id love to get my dose of pvp there, I know someone else likes to fly the Corvult and Valk, while someone else cant live without the greyhog, and someone else uses only WTD and Greyhog.. and we all only want to fight. See where im getting at? We are FORCED to all live between Jallik and Initros. Whats here not to understand? Until this changes, Deneb is dead.Forget conquerable stations, forget the biases between nations, this is why Deneb is not the primary if at all, a war zone.

Now tell me what could you possibly add to Deneb that would make us drop our favourite ships and run to play there?

This is like talking to children.

What is missing in these suggestions about military ship access is that greyspace combat SHOULD be able to qualify you to get the ship. The reason the devs are not doing this is because Deneb shouldn't be a necessity to get the top tier ships, because greyspace is also full of combat. It's kind of like spending all day in a furball in grey and then your access to your favorite ship getting revoked "because you did not fight in Deneb." Well, motha********, I just spent all day fighting for you in grey, piss off.

That's a poor argument. That would be like a soldier going to another country and shooting someone believed to be the current enemy du jour. You'd likely get kicked out of the military at best. If you're not acting under orders (Deneb), you're acting rogue.

Greenwall, Im not saying I know exactly how to go about changing the situation, I just said why everything is the way it is and why it will never change until grey is the only choice for constant pvp, and why your silly idea of adding instead of restricting will never work.

idd, you ran away from your home which is at war and needs every fighter at the front line.You left your comrades and went shooting random people that has no meaning to your nation, you should be removed from the military and hanged if anything, unless youre on a specific mission of course. Im not saying we should prevent people from going to grey now, but your argument isnt valid.

@idd "What is missing in these suggestions about military ship access is that greyspace combat SHOULD be able to qualify you to get the ship. "

Exactly as I said on Saturday: :-)

"I think "military" should be broader than Deneb, the grey border should also offer military missions directed against both pirates and the enemy. Deneb could, however, be the easiest place to get military promotion. Still, I think that they should cut the travel time somehow, "

More broadly, killing "an enemy of the nation" anywhere could give a few military points, maybe not enough to credibly advance the ranks, but at least enough to prevent losing access.

You are offering to implement some kind of an upkeep system which would require players to constantly do their part in Deneb, BUT make it so that they can do the same in greyspace.. how is that gonna draw anyone to Deneb then?What does it change?

Loooooooool

Rouge is defined as acting against your nation, not for it. Deneb is only 1 frontline, greyspace is another. What you guys are saying is that capping down stations for your nation, doing CtC, defending and attacking blockades, that doesn't count?

That's a rather poor argument draugath because greyspace is not a country, it's also a zone for conflict every nation wants a price of.