Corvus already has three of its own ships: the Maud, the CV, and the Hound. These wouldn't be carbon copies so much as pirate variants: little less combat thrust, little less armor, little more boost thrust/speed, little less drain. Maybe some goodies like integrated scanners, though I'd like to see the Hound keep that unique quality and get a repair cost drop combined with a slight armor buff.

If you're seriously concerned with Corvus having a distinct ship model, you need to re-read the backstory about what Corvus is.

And those ships indicate perfectly why it's a bad idea. People don't fly the UIT vulture, they don't fly the UIT maud and they damn sure fly the hound more than the WTD.

The problem is that there is no downside to Corvus access, something the Devs have repeatedly failed to correct. There's nothing wrong with everyone wanting to be able to fly the Hound, the CV, or the Corvus Maud--they just shouldn't be able to get them without making significant sacrifices to their standing and access with other nations in the game.

When I originally suggested the ship that became the Hound, I strongly suggested it be at least dual KOS-dependant, if not tri KOS, because otherwise you'd have traders using a dedicated pirate ship to run around quickly and/or as an interceptor when they needed one. That suggestion was disregarded in favor of just needing high Corvus standing, which has never had any kind of mutual exclusivity attached to it, and the mess we see at present is the result.

Everyone whines about how Corvus aren't pirates, they're just a shadowy corporation who doesn't care who does what in their space -- therefore all are welcome and no exclusivity or faction penalities with the good guys are appropriate. This is either utter horseshit, or, the Devs have stupidly overemphasized the role of a 'too open for the game's own good' organization in the backstory. If you want a anything goes and we'll sell to everyone port in the game, that's cool. But you don't also make them the only foil to the established nations -- it would be like the Serco and Itani being at war but also open to selling top military tech to the other side for profit. Maybe it makes sense in a strict sense, but it makes gameplay boring.

And make no mistake, my hesitation is in no small part due to that mess. But even so, assuming they get the faction system right tomorrow, I don't think we can rely purely on faction exclusivity to keep us out of another mess. The devil would be in the detail and as it stands there's just no way we can do this at the moment without borking up the roles even more.

The simple solution is to make Corvus faction exclusive so that a Corvus POS would limit a player to only respected everywhere else.

Cap Corvus / everybody else standing at 1200 or so.

Pak, you spelled "Care bear" wrong... the LOGICAL solution is to fix the faction system so that PoS with A means KoS with B.

Sorry Ryan but you seem to have avoided clarity....

I understood him perfectly, I don't know whats your problem.

Paks solution is way too carebear

Lecter said "The problem is that there is no downside to Corvus access, something the Devs have repeatedly failed to correct. There's nothing wrong with everyone wanting to be able to fly the Hound, the CV, or the Corvus Maud--they just shouldn't be able to get them without making significant sacrifices to their standing and access with other nations in the game."

Why?

I fail to see why Corvus POS should automatically mean KOS elsewhere (regardless of where). I'm a Corvus supporter through and through, but never pirate, or attack voys. Why should UIT/Serco/Itani nations hate me when I do nothing to them? Anyway, that's not what this thread is about...

Corvus having variant ships is a cool idea... that's why they have some. The CorMaud, CV, Hound and even the crafted-only Centurion SL. While new ship designs would be awesome, it should NOT be Corvus that gets them. Corvus are only vaguely a corporation, where as Serco/Itan and to a lesser extent UIT are fully fledged nations with much bigger/better industries. If anyone was going to make entirely new ships, it would be one of these nations, not the shadowy pseudo-corp that is Corvus.

Corvus variants of the prom/valk would be interesting, and in "flavour" for Corvus, but I think the Serco/Itani governments would come down hard if Corvus tried to replicate them (UIT are too disorganized to do much about the CorMaud).

Pirates are saying "you should need tri-KOS" (or similar) because its rarely a penalty for them. The idea that getting tri-KOS should have an advantage somewhere is just stupid. KoS standing is a penalty for being a pirate. Deal with it. It should NOT have an upside.

Traders all disagree with a KoS requirement because it would seriously penalise their role-play choice. And why should these traders get penalised for engaging in free trade, with an organization that is not (technically) at odds with anyone?

All that said, though, I do like the idea of Corvus having some variants that are craftable only, and needs parts "acquired" through nefarious means, though I think the current variants cover Corvus' needs adequately.

Over-all, this idea sounds to me like "I'm a Serco/Itani, but want to fly a valk/prom easily, and with minimal penalties, despite my role-play choices".

Faille.

+1 op

The Order of Eo has stated that it will not tolerate Corvus trying to steal and/or manipulate Itani ship and/or weapon designs.

The order of Eo are newbs

"Pirates are saying "you should need tri-KOS" (or similar) because its rarely a penalty for them. The idea that getting tri-KOS should have an advantage somewhere is just stupid. KoS standing is a penalty for being a pirate. Deal with it. It should NOT have an upside."

That's like saying people should be penalized for playing Horde without any upsides. Piracy is just as valid a way to play the game as trade or nationalism. And we're not saying that KOS should have an upside so much as we're saying that Corvus standing should have a downside, just like Itani standing or Serco standing have downsides.

"I fail to see why Corvus POS should automatically mean KOS elsewhere (regardless of where). I'm a Corvus supporter through and through, but never pirate, or attack voys. Why should UIT/Serco/Itani nations hate me when I do nothing to them?"

For the exact same reason that helping the Itani in any way should piss off the Serco. Even if you are not taking direct action against them, you're helping their enemies. We aren't talking about vague political enemies. In the case of Corvus, we're talking about supporting terrorists. You can argue that you should be able to help everybody and therefor be neutral with them, and I would agree. You can be Neutral with them. But if you want to have high standing with anybody, well, that is not neutrality and therefor you should have correspondingly low standing with their enemies.

The difference between Corvus and Serco/Itani though is that Serco/Itani are at war. Corvus aren't at war with anyone. The way mutually exclusive standings works, Corvus standing affecting nation standings will wind up with everyone who frequents Corvus stations eventually getting branded a pirate (by the nations I mean, not by players), as you can't reduce Corvus standing to prevent other standing loss like you can with every other mutually exclusive faction. If Corvus standing could be lost, I'd be less against this idea.

I also agree KoS needn't have further penalties, I just don't think it should have a specific in game advantage. Piracy is absolutely a valid (and IMO vital) role-play option, but if you pirate in monitored sectors, you pay the price with bad standing.

Edit: Corvus are terrorists? My understanding was they were a black market pseudo-corporation. What makes them terrorists?

Faille.

Corvus is a legit Corporation with a poor reputation for dealing with the dreges of society....

I never said corvus pos = kos everywhere else.
I said a Corvus POS should limit you to respected or so everywhere else.
Only a care bear pirate would object :P

Corvus dealings should come at a price

Oh and a POS anywhere else would prevent a player from accessing the Corvus goodies.

This is what a real faction system is about.

Dude, Corvus is a gang of pirates and terrorists. The only reason they haven't wiped Corvus out is because it's better to "Know where the hornet's nest is"

the order of eo are newbs

At least they aren't dictators.

PaK said: "Corvus is a legit Corporation with a poor reputation for dealing with the dreges of society....

I dunno about legit, but otherwise I agree

"I never said corvus pos = kos everywhere else.
I said a Corvus POS should limit you to respected or so everywhere else.
Only a care bear pirate would object :P
Corvus dealings should come at a price"

Again, if Corvus standing could be lost, I could get on board with this idea. But since it can't....

"Oh and a POS anywhere else would prevent a player from accessing the Corvus goodies."

Why? Corvus wouldn't care much what other factions thought of you.

Snk said: "Corvus is a gang of pirates and terrorists. The only reason they haven't wiped Corvus out is because it's better to "Know where the hornet's nest is"

Again, what makes Corvus terrorists? Have they bombed civilians? Hijacked craft? Done anything that could be called terrorism? What kind of terrorists has a "non-expansion policy"?

Corvus hasn't been "wiped out" by law enforcement simply because they can't, as Corvus would just regroup elsewhere in an unknown location. That's what the "better to know where the Hornets nest is" is about, not a lack of effort on the part of the "law enforcement officials".

Anyway, getting off topic again.
- lots to Corvus getting prom/valk variants.

Faille