Reporting to a faction is not magic, it is standard communications. Even if the aggressor turns off his transponder, the victim will report the aggression at first sign.

I suppose that two players could meet up in some corner of faction space and agree to turn off their transponders and duke it out...

My solutions is not very complex.

Step one: Make a pirate be temp kos at the first sign of intentional aggression.
Step two: Prevent a noob from being easily tricked into firing on a pirate.

This can be accomplished by making it so noobs can only fire when they have a valid (faction hostile) target to fire at, and players who choose to fire at non valid (faction friendly) targets and do damage lose faction protect (and thus become valid targets).

Many vets are cocky and will turn of the weapons safety. If they accidentally hit a noob, Tuf luck. No warning, no second chance. They choose to turn of the safety, because they are "vets". Let them run for a jump point. Cocky little pricks. Don't turn off the weapons safety unless you can check your trigger finger.

Noobs won't know how to turn off the weapons safety, and if some one tells them how, that is a clue that something is up.

The "reporting" as it currently stands is kind of "magic". It has no corelation to witnesses, nor who was the aggressor. Many "montiored" sectors have no faction presence to do the monitoring. If it's "simple comms" to law enforcement at the nearest station, then why does it only happen in some sectors? There is simply no logic behind the current system beyond arbitrary gameplay needs, and even that needs a major redux IMO.

Faille.

Think of it this way, it's a jurisdictional matter. They received your distress call when you were in the unmonitored sector, because that's the way communications work, but because it was outside of their established jurisdiction, they won't do anything. Kind of like how CountryA won't do anything if you get shot within the borders of its neighbor, CountryB. Even if it's unclaimed space, they won't do anything, because they don't have the man-power to control that space. In theory they should still care that you died, but they simply can't do anything about it.

Yeah, OK, I can accept jurisdictional limits, but that still leaves DE's original point about self defence vs a localy admired aggressor. If the sector is monitored (and therefore, within jurisdiction) but not a station sector (ie, unguarded) a player should be able to defend themselves without standing loss.

Given that it's pretty hard to accidentally shoot someone (and as I understand it, the game can track who hits who first?), couldn't the "forgive" option be altered to "auto-forgive" if you are killed by someone that you hit first?

Faille.

^^ yes, it should.

Just create a safety mode for weapons that you can turn on and off. When on your shots can not damage another player. If someone attacks you then they lose the protection of safety mode and can be damage by your weapons even if you have safety mode on. The person with safety mode on loses no rep.

not my sock ^^

Weapon Safeties are completely superflous. exDragon, DE, and other proponents of weapon safeties: When was the last time you "accidentaly" shot someone?

Faille.

when was the last time you where a noob?

Newbs don't accidentally shoot people. They are goaded into shooting someone in a location they don't know they shouldn't.

semantics. The noob may have intentionally or reflexively fired. They probably did not intend to trigger a strike force or lose standing, hence: "I accidentally shot a pirate in faction space" can be a correct statement, when considered in context.

Reporting to a faction is not magic, it is standard communications. Even if the aggressor turns off his transponder, the victim will report the aggression at first sign.

And what will they report? "An unidentified black Warthog with no transponder opened fire on me with rockets and neutron fire in Verasi O-7 at 12:19 4445/03/07"

Aside from the training sectors, which don't count, and turret-mounted ubergauss and uberseekers, which should be available to PC capships anyway, VO does not have any "magic" NPC ships. The SF is and should only be composed of ships and items available to PCs.

Beef it up, great. Make it launch in response to shooting damage to a Respected or higher pilot, and then open fire if KOS/Temp KOS is triggered, eliminating the launch and close with delay...cool.

But the SF doesn't need bottomless batteries, uber neuts, super vults, mega flares, or haxz0rs tracking/monitoring. The day that sort of shit is allowed to leak out of the training sectors is the day I stop trying to get some VO time in here and there.

I never said to make them unbeatable machines that can kill anything. With all equipment equal, PCs will regularly be able to beat/avoid NPCs. The point I have been trying to make is that they should be beefed up so that they can actually stand a chance at performing their role of security versus the more experienced players they're most likely to encounter.

With all equipment equal, PCs will regularly be able to beat/avoid NPCs.

Which is why it's a strike force and not a strike ship.

Performing their role as security hardly means the SF has to win engagements against the best pilots flying the best ships equipped with the best arms; all they really need to do is provide a solid distraction. Which they already do.

However, if they're going to launch to monitor aggressive activities and respond instantly to any KOS/temp KOS flags, it is time to get rid of the kludge that are Arena Seekers or at least make them launch only when they do now. Those things are just this side of the insta-hit beam in the training sector and having them hover next to people just waiting would unbalance them even further.

I have a few opinions on station defenses. I might even express them sometime. Perhaps even in a relevant thread.

I understand we have a number of threads running concurrently.

This thread is about "Self Defense in Nation space". Please stay on topic.

You will never be able to correctly define "self defense" in VO. So get bent.

/thread

Not the end. Best solution is already proposed: Make NFZ a serious NO-Fire zone. No matter if shooting the void, a voy or a player.

Shoot back and both are condemned. Maybe in that moment a "Weapons Safe" mode would be welcome, despite not required and not influence engine's response, as it becomes exactly like an unarmed/mining ship.

Next, make layers more distinct, expanding NFZ:
-Nations' station sectors should become a larger lite-NFZ, no one shoots nobody except NPCs, with escalated response by Strike Force, as outlined by CS before. And "full" NFZs are even more harsh in implementing the no-fire restriction using Turrets.
-NFZ borders in Capitals should have instakill turrets, medium stations add ConqStations turrets and smallest ones remains with what they have now.
-Nations' response defending native citizens should be much larger than factions' response.
-Reduce the monitored sectors to those near stations and wormholes. Explained as the speed of light and lack of monitoring devices. But add the escalated response of SF to those sectors.

self-de·fense
noun
1. the act of defending one's person when physically attacked, as by countering blows or overcoming an assailant: the art of self-defense.
2. a claim or plea that the use of force or injuring or killing another was necessary in defending one's own person from physical attack: He shot the man who was trying to stab him and pleaded self-defense at the murder trial.
3. an act or instance of defending or protecting one's own interests, property, ideas, etc., as by argument or strategy.

Why would the definition be any different for VO?

This thread is not about protecting pilots in nation space. There are already many threads that cover such issues.

This thread is about faction recognition of "Right to Self Defense".

Please stay on topic.

I like steak.