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Sorry for this long description and I know it's been posted before but not specifically in a suggestion but more of a subset of other suggestions
Anyhow, why not Deneb sector wins/losses only for player selected missions ?
Why can't we just have sector wins/losses only for those sectors where there was an actual mission taken ?
I watch the Deneb /score !score etc. tally up on it's own with no player missions taken at all.
For example:
I may take a mission and see either a win/loss in the Deneb stat page and according to the time the mission was won/lost there should be no other sector tally on the /score or !score etc.
Yet while I'm in the mission many times there is a sector tally of either a win/loss sometimes 2 maybe even 3 at times; and yet no other player is taking a Deneb sector mission and no other wins/losses on the Deneb stats pages
So this is pure lottery in Deneb to some extent. While absolutely NO other players are taking Deneb missions your trying to overcome the lottery style tally thats randomly wins/loses in Deneb typically in Itani favor
I would speculate that if NO one took any missions in Deneb that Itani would always win and has been winning over the past couple years when there is little to no activity in Deneb
Now that there is a lot more activity in Deneb recently over the past 1.5 months, it would seem the lottery needs to subside if people are taking missions. Or even get rid of the lottery system all together.
Deneb should not be won/lost due to random lottery system of some sort, but only due to player mission wins/losses.
What do you think ? and Why ?
Anyhow, why not Deneb sector wins/losses only for player selected missions ?
Why can't we just have sector wins/losses only for those sectors where there was an actual mission taken ?
I watch the Deneb /score !score etc. tally up on it's own with no player missions taken at all.
For example:
I may take a mission and see either a win/loss in the Deneb stat page and according to the time the mission was won/lost there should be no other sector tally on the /score or !score etc.
Yet while I'm in the mission many times there is a sector tally of either a win/loss sometimes 2 maybe even 3 at times; and yet no other player is taking a Deneb sector mission and no other wins/losses on the Deneb stats pages
So this is pure lottery in Deneb to some extent. While absolutely NO other players are taking Deneb missions your trying to overcome the lottery style tally thats randomly wins/loses in Deneb typically in Itani favor
I would speculate that if NO one took any missions in Deneb that Itani would always win and has been winning over the past couple years when there is little to no activity in Deneb
Now that there is a lot more activity in Deneb recently over the past 1.5 months, it would seem the lottery needs to subside if people are taking missions. Or even get rid of the lottery system all together.
Deneb should not be won/lost due to random lottery system of some sort, but only due to player mission wins/losses.
What do you think ? and Why ?
You need to be clear about, and understand, that /score is a command created by a plugin. Said plugin only looks at the conquered status of each sector in Deneb, and tallies it for the Serco or Itani. It is not something created by the Devs, and has no capacity for interpreting who has done what where.
based on topic's title, I think the best would be adjust the system to allways TIE when no player plays. Like a month that no player joins Deneb missions, just swap few sectors and keep balanced overall score.
So each fighter can make the difference...
So each fighter can make the difference...
-draugath thanks for the reply but the plugin is not applicable to the topic
The number of sectors won/lost and how they tally up on their own with no player missions even taken in Deneb is the main subject
The /score or !score is only a plug in which counts the won/lost sectors for you nothing more aka red/blue squares counter plugin basically.
The Deneb stats page shows wins/losses but also includes extra fights won/lost not related to the actual red/blue sector squares. In otherwords the Deneb stats page on vo pages shows extra fighter missions that will occur when you reset a sector by finding and killing the turrets in Deneb. For this the Deneb stats page gives you extra wins/losses, but not actual red/blue sectors or actual sector count of win/losses
However, this is about win/loss sectors that continue to tally up even with NO player missions even taken in Deneb. They will tally up even if NO one takes any missions at all.
-Alloy
Agreed I mean why should a sector be won/lost if no one is even taking the mission this makes it a lottery system.
Currently there is more activity but as I mentioned sometimes the tally just goes up over night. There might be as many as 10 sectors changing score with no player mission taken and no win/losses on the Deneb stats page that would indicate any player won/lost those sectors. This is because the war keeps going and the random lottery of won/lost sectors keeps going even if there is no players taking Deneb missions
So in short, it plays itself and so my suggestion is to only accumulate wins/losses ONLY if players take a mission
There has to be more then a couple people that would prefer to get rid of the lottery system ?
The number of sectors won/lost and how they tally up on their own with no player missions even taken in Deneb is the main subject
The /score or !score is only a plug in which counts the won/lost sectors for you nothing more aka red/blue squares counter plugin basically.
The Deneb stats page shows wins/losses but also includes extra fights won/lost not related to the actual red/blue sector squares. In otherwords the Deneb stats page on vo pages shows extra fighter missions that will occur when you reset a sector by finding and killing the turrets in Deneb. For this the Deneb stats page gives you extra wins/losses, but not actual red/blue sectors or actual sector count of win/losses
However, this is about win/loss sectors that continue to tally up even with NO player missions even taken in Deneb. They will tally up even if NO one takes any missions at all.
-Alloy
Agreed I mean why should a sector be won/lost if no one is even taking the mission this makes it a lottery system.
Currently there is more activity but as I mentioned sometimes the tally just goes up over night. There might be as many as 10 sectors changing score with no player mission taken and no win/losses on the Deneb stats page that would indicate any player won/lost those sectors. This is because the war keeps going and the random lottery of won/lost sectors keeps going even if there is no players taking Deneb missions
So in short, it plays itself and so my suggestion is to only accumulate wins/losses ONLY if players take a mission
There has to be more then a couple people that would prefer to get rid of the lottery system ?
well there have been times where it did not seem so much a lottery -- a couple weeks ago serco's kept winning all the unmanned skirms. Things have been pretty active since then so it's hard to tell.
Personally I think one side needs to win a skirm, regardless of people playing... otherwise the weekly procession of conquering Deneb would never happen unless people played (which is perhaps what you want...). I think it makes sense for deneb skirms to be won without player intervention, but I'd like to see a balance mechanic at work (similar to CTC), where the losing team from previous week has a higher likelihood that unmanned skirms will be won in their favor.
Personally I think one side needs to win a skirm, regardless of people playing... otherwise the weekly procession of conquering Deneb would never happen unless people played (which is perhaps what you want...). I think it makes sense for deneb skirms to be won without player intervention, but I'd like to see a balance mechanic at work (similar to CTC), where the losing team from previous week has a higher likelihood that unmanned skirms will be won in their favor.
I have to agree with Greenwall. It's fine the way it is, and it's not as though the server just randomly picks a winner. Players or no, the ships show up and fight, some one wins and some one dies.
Maybe when VO has a significantly larger player base this would be an ok idea.
Maybe when VO has a significantly larger player base this would be an ok idea.
They continue to tally up and be conquered, even when no one is taking missions, because the server will run additional skirmishes to keep things moving. This has been stated by momerath.
-draugath your confusing the subject of emulated counts not being on the Deneb stats that much I already know.
Please re-read mamerath's and my post again these are different subjects
One subject is the lottery tally system which gives a win/lose for a sector no matter if any one plays it
The other subject in the mamaerath's post is also about the emulated fighter skirmishes reset by the turret kils and these also count as he pointed out that they (do) show up on the Deneb counts status page but some changes he has made which (are not yet deployed) to make this count match
The subsequent subject in that post is that those emulated via turret fighter skirmishes are not listed in the long list of skirmishes on the lower parts of the page but the (do) add up to the total win/loss counts which is why you have a sector win/loss count that is typically different then what you see on the Deneb stats page
But anyhow in short, and as others have mentioned, when there is activity and perhaps a lot of activity this would not be as big of a deal if people are in Deneb all the time.
However, it only takes a short time of intermittent lack of players for the wins to be overturned
For example the score is currently itan 47 / serco 51 This is the manual count of player associated wins/losses
So Serco are winning and should be since the have taken more missions and won them then the itani players
However the Deneb stats page at this moment is showing a score of itani 103 / serco 81
While the actual count of win/lost sectors in actuality in Deneb is 103/65
So the break down is like this and is frequently unbalanced in this way
Baring the fact the serco seem to have taken a larger number of small and fighter skrimishes this particular week which is a bit weak for serco this weak but still here is the breakdown
Deneb stats page - 103 / 81
Actual sector counts - 103 / 65
Actual player attended wins 47 / 51
As you can see it's outragous to see more actual player attended wins yet still losing in Deneb by HUGE number LOL
It's like this always for at least the past 2 years with the occasional role reversal but typically completely unbalanced
Check out the Sums / Totals page I made
www.iclbiz.com/denebstats
As you can see the itani casualties is much higher this weak, so I guess some weight could be given for this, however this is not typically the case especially when no other players even took missions
In many cases over the past 2 years there can be many more player wins which simply can never overcome the lottery system
I know because I've tried to win in Deneb even when there may have only been 3 total player itani wins in Deneb and I may have had something like 20 and still lost Deneb by a huge margin because the lottery keeps ticking when no other players are playing
Well I said in short but thats not really short at but quit a lengthy report LOL sorry.
Anyhow I guess everyone things this is ok.
Start your Serco alt and see if you feel the same way.
Numbers of Serco players playing online 24hours a day can overcome this sure, but few players with long intermittent inactivity cannot and thus a group of 4-5 serco with a few alts are not going to cut it.
Please re-read mamerath's and my post again these are different subjects
One subject is the lottery tally system which gives a win/lose for a sector no matter if any one plays it
The other subject in the mamaerath's post is also about the emulated fighter skirmishes reset by the turret kils and these also count as he pointed out that they (do) show up on the Deneb counts status page but some changes he has made which (are not yet deployed) to make this count match
The subsequent subject in that post is that those emulated via turret fighter skirmishes are not listed in the long list of skirmishes on the lower parts of the page but the (do) add up to the total win/loss counts which is why you have a sector win/loss count that is typically different then what you see on the Deneb stats page
But anyhow in short, and as others have mentioned, when there is activity and perhaps a lot of activity this would not be as big of a deal if people are in Deneb all the time.
However, it only takes a short time of intermittent lack of players for the wins to be overturned
For example the score is currently itan 47 / serco 51 This is the manual count of player associated wins/losses
So Serco are winning and should be since the have taken more missions and won them then the itani players
However the Deneb stats page at this moment is showing a score of itani 103 / serco 81
While the actual count of win/lost sectors in actuality in Deneb is 103/65
So the break down is like this and is frequently unbalanced in this way
Baring the fact the serco seem to have taken a larger number of small and fighter skrimishes this particular week which is a bit weak for serco this weak but still here is the breakdown
Deneb stats page - 103 / 81
Actual sector counts - 103 / 65
Actual player attended wins 47 / 51
As you can see it's outragous to see more actual player attended wins yet still losing in Deneb by HUGE number LOL
It's like this always for at least the past 2 years with the occasional role reversal but typically completely unbalanced
Check out the Sums / Totals page I made
www.iclbiz.com/denebstats
As you can see the itani casualties is much higher this weak, so I guess some weight could be given for this, however this is not typically the case especially when no other players even took missions
In many cases over the past 2 years there can be many more player wins which simply can never overcome the lottery system
I know because I've tried to win in Deneb even when there may have only been 3 total player itani wins in Deneb and I may have had something like 20 and still lost Deneb by a huge margin because the lottery keeps ticking when no other players are playing
Well I said in short but thats not really short at but quit a lengthy report LOL sorry.
Anyhow I guess everyone things this is ok.
Start your Serco alt and see if you feel the same way.
Numbers of Serco players playing online 24hours a day can overcome this sure, but few players with long intermittent inactivity cannot and thus a group of 4-5 serco with a few alts are not going to cut it.
I'd like to take the time to point out non sensical crap like this got you your ztard moniker. I know this week, the first time Serco have lost in awhile must piss you off but too bad.
Take a look at the last 2 days. You guys phoned it in, we haven't . You can't even use the player assisted win defense anymore like you are now and esp was last night because we have lapsed you in that too. So stfu and take your loss like a man or commit suicide cause I believe your national saying goes "death before dishonor" so based on your handling of a single loss in 3 weeks I think the suicide is now your only choice.
Take a look at the last 2 days. You guys phoned it in, we haven't . You can't even use the player assisted win defense anymore like you are now and esp was last night because we have lapsed you in that too. So stfu and take your loss like a man or commit suicide cause I believe your national saying goes "death before dishonor" so based on your handling of a single loss in 3 weeks I think the suicide is now your only choice.
If I were a nationalist:
It would be great if the Deneb Stats page included the current system map, with a tally of controlled sectors like !score does, so players can see if they'll spawn a war voy that day... and/or add that tally to the system view of Deneb, or in the system notes in Universe view). The stats page includes turret-spawned fighter skirmishes that do not count in the daily war voy contest (if I understand it correctly).
While you're at it, add a Serco and Itani War Voy channel like the CtC channel, or perhaps have them broadcast to ch 11, so neither voy is broadcasting its whereabouts to their enemy.
Oh, and shouldn't killing war voy ships give a faction hit like CtC? (not that I'd know if they did or not, but I hear they don't ;)
Oh, and while I'm stirring the pot: Make the Deneb stations conquerable!
It would be great if the Deneb Stats page included the current system map, with a tally of controlled sectors like !score does, so players can see if they'll spawn a war voy that day... and/or add that tally to the system view of Deneb, or in the system notes in Universe view). The stats page includes turret-spawned fighter skirmishes that do not count in the daily war voy contest (if I understand it correctly).
While you're at it, add a Serco and Itani War Voy channel like the CtC channel, or perhaps have them broadcast to ch 11, so neither voy is broadcasting its whereabouts to their enemy.
Oh, and shouldn't killing war voy ships give a faction hit like CtC? (not that I'd know if they did or not, but I hear they don't ;)
Oh, and while I'm stirring the pot: Make the Deneb stations conquerable!
CrazySpence does not know what he's talking about
As I pointed out Serco has more (player) wins in Deneb this week.
Actual player attended wins 47 / 51 at the time I posted this.
The Itani computer wins however have beaten the Serco computer once again
And yes the past 3 weeks of Serco wins with a lot of activity was pretty good, however after about 2 years of Itani wins in Deneb constantly with little to NO player activity or in many cases still more serco player wins then itani yet the computer always comes up with itani wins for the week.
So the past 4-5 weeks have been pretty fun yet still like flipping a coin or a lottery system, there is simply no way to rebut this because it's a fact.
You just can't seem to understand it for some reason that if you play a game and actually win and score more points you should be the winner.
Not so in Deneb.
Losses due to some computer lottery system that tells you that the Red team lost or the Blue team lost because while you were sleeping the computers racked up 10 wins.
Why not just flip a coin, and we can use my coin and I'll announce the winner at the end of the week :) .
Read the stats and count the player wins = serco win Horah !
But in this case my itani alt wins due to computer generated wins = itani win Horah!
Please try again
Better luck next time
As far as the suggestion goes I don't really see any real rebut for not making the system count (player mission wins/losses only)
I see some have the opinion that they like it the way it is and I do appreciate that opinion very much thanks.
However, as far as the logistics go, there does not seem to be a real logic to having a team who scored more points/wins actually end up as the losing team
Does that sound right ?
As I pointed out Serco has more (player) wins in Deneb this week.
Actual player attended wins 47 / 51 at the time I posted this.
The Itani computer wins however have beaten the Serco computer once again
And yes the past 3 weeks of Serco wins with a lot of activity was pretty good, however after about 2 years of Itani wins in Deneb constantly with little to NO player activity or in many cases still more serco player wins then itani yet the computer always comes up with itani wins for the week.
So the past 4-5 weeks have been pretty fun yet still like flipping a coin or a lottery system, there is simply no way to rebut this because it's a fact.
You just can't seem to understand it for some reason that if you play a game and actually win and score more points you should be the winner.
Not so in Deneb.
Losses due to some computer lottery system that tells you that the Red team lost or the Blue team lost because while you were sleeping the computers racked up 10 wins.
Why not just flip a coin, and we can use my coin and I'll announce the winner at the end of the week :) .
Read the stats and count the player wins = serco win Horah !
But in this case my itani alt wins due to computer generated wins = itani win Horah!
Please try again
Better luck next time
As far as the suggestion goes I don't really see any real rebut for not making the system count (player mission wins/losses only)
I see some have the opinion that they like it the way it is and I do appreciate that opinion very much thanks.
However, as far as the logistics go, there does not seem to be a real logic to having a team who scored more points/wins actually end up as the losing team
Does that sound right ?
One more things about Deneb stats page
The stats page does not end on GMT time to coordinate with the VO Deneb sectors reset time and thus VO sectors reset to 0 while Deneb stats page does not until much later
The stats page does not end on GMT time to coordinate with the VO Deneb sectors reset time and thus VO sectors reset to 0 while Deneb stats page does not until much later
Yep CD , this all sounds good to me too
1. There's a lot in VO that doesn't make logical sense -- but we all just accept it.
2. If what you say is true, and the Itanis DO win more unmanned skirms in general, then that is not good and should be changed. However, the skirmishes should be won by one team or the other, regardless of whether or not there is human participation.
One thing that I don't understand is how the unmanned skirms actually are determined -- bc if you start one that never had any players in it the entire sector starts from "scratch", as it were, with all the cappies in the starting positions (even if the battle is near ending). It's almost as if there is some kind of equation running that determines the score in unmanned skirms, rather than having the actual battle take place.
2. If what you say is true, and the Itanis DO win more unmanned skirms in general, then that is not good and should be changed. However, the skirmishes should be won by one team or the other, regardless of whether or not there is human participation.
One thing that I don't understand is how the unmanned skirms actually are determined -- bc if you start one that never had any players in it the entire sector starts from "scratch", as it were, with all the cappies in the starting positions (even if the battle is near ending). It's almost as if there is some kind of equation running that determines the score in unmanned skirms, rather than having the actual battle take place.
CrazySpence does not know what he's talking about
I think he knows exactly what he's talking about, it just has nothing to do with the subject at hand and he obviously finds the timing convenient.
There are problems with deneb, yep, its completely imbalanced and needs to be removed!
I think he knows exactly what he's talking about, it just has nothing to do with the subject at hand and he obviously finds the timing convenient.
There are problems with deneb, yep, its completely imbalanced and needs to be removed!
@Greenwall that's just how vo handles sleeping sectors, you see the same thing happen in hive skirms, CtC, war voys, convoy escorts.
Human enters sector, all ai look like they just got there
It sucks and has been complained about for years (at least I know I bitch about it in one form or another once a year)
Human enters sector, all ai look like they just got there
It sucks and has been complained about for years (at least I know I bitch about it in one form or another once a year)
There are problems with deneb, yep, its completely imbalanced and needs to be removed!
TheRedSpy, you're imbalanced and need to be removed! :P
Deneb needs fixing yeah, but making it so that un-played skirmishes don't count at all isn't going to fix anything. The game balances stuff out so that you can't just win 5 in the beginning of the week and keep the war-voys rolling out until Sunday. There's really no point in changing the simulation skirmishes until the whole thing gets some persistence beyond the weekly scoreboards.
TheRedSpy, you're imbalanced and need to be removed! :P
Deneb needs fixing yeah, but making it so that un-played skirmishes don't count at all isn't going to fix anything. The game balances stuff out so that you can't just win 5 in the beginning of the week and keep the war-voys rolling out until Sunday. There's really no point in changing the simulation skirmishes until the whole thing gets some persistence beyond the weekly scoreboards.
TheRedSpy, you're imbalanced and need to be removed!
It's completely true.
It's completely true.
Well that just stinks lol
I mean REALLY STINKS
Look at it this way, for that particular week for example:
Actual sector counts - 103 / 65
Actual player attended wins 47 / 51
103 - 47(itani) = 56.
Itani almost wins with no itani player activity at all 56/65 even if they never showed up and thats with 51 serco player attended wins OUCH.
Again this stinks
Thats just stupid the scoreboard count up faster then there are missions available to even think about trying to win in Deneb. You can take a mission and watch itani get 2-3 sectors with no other players or missions even going on.
Balancing is not a very war like concept. You win you hold your territory, you lose or don't show up, then you continue to be the loser. I'm not sure I understand the problem with this
There is no room in war for a lottery.
Lottery stinks and so does Deneb thats about all I can say to conclude this.
I mean REALLY STINKS
Look at it this way, for that particular week for example:
Actual sector counts - 103 / 65
Actual player attended wins 47 / 51
103 - 47(itani) = 56.
Itani almost wins with no itani player activity at all 56/65 even if they never showed up and thats with 51 serco player attended wins OUCH.
Again this stinks
Thats just stupid the scoreboard count up faster then there are missions available to even think about trying to win in Deneb. You can take a mission and watch itani get 2-3 sectors with no other players or missions even going on.
Balancing is not a very war like concept. You win you hold your territory, you lose or don't show up, then you continue to be the loser. I'm not sure I understand the problem with this
There is no room in war for a lottery.
Lottery stinks and so does Deneb thats about all I can say to conclude this.
A single example of one side with four times as many automated wins means little.
If that is typical, then I'd agree there is a problem. You have not proven that it is typical however. For all I know, you just singled out an instance that was favorable to your stance.
Show me a graph comparing manual and automated wins for both sides on a weekly basis over the course of several months, and I'll be a lot more interested.
If that is typical, then I'd agree there is a problem. You have not proven that it is typical however. For all I know, you just singled out an instance that was favorable to your stance.
Show me a graph comparing manual and automated wins for both sides on a weekly basis over the course of several months, and I'll be a lot more interested.