Then let us be thankful that someone such as yourself is not a moderator. This forum is a suggestions forum, and my topic is a suggestion to better the game. How does this not belong here? Is this not a suggestion? Is this not a suggestions forum?

If bitcoin is so great why don't other reputable sites, especially ones involved in gaming such as Humble Bundle, use it? Everything I've seen over the past year+ points to bitcoin being a fad that only gets used by people wanting to feel special for using the latest new technology or who have an irrational conspiracy theory mindset about the rest of the world.

Gary... you should have done some research before deciding to plug your wares here. Its been brought up by people just like you in the past and rejected as what it was... completely useless, worthless and something that would potentially destabilize VO.

You might have better luck claiming to be a member of a deposed Nigerian royal family or some such... surprisingly, people still fall for that one. Just a thought.

I suppose it is possible you're not in the employ of someone, or a con artist... (I have friends that are Romani, so I use the term "artist", in your case with great generosity)... you could just be a bitcoin cult fanatic.

http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/24668

I particularly like how the poster resorts to completely ludicrous personal attacks of the variety one might expect when disagreeing with any random cult member...

"But i guess there is no point in convincing you geeky/anarchist types ( :D ), since you will think that this is government's work anyway ( :D ) ."

Really this says it all about bitcoin...

Mar 24, 2011 Dr. Lecter: So you could see Whistler agreeing with me and doing my bidding.

Minen, don't be an idiot. Consider the several existing threads about goofy peripherals, such as that head-mounted display, or nvidia's 3d view thing. Should those people have emailed the devs rather than post on the forum? Absolutely not.

When a suggestion is about having the game support something, it is not an advertisement. It is a suggestion.

I am not saying that it would be worth the devs time to support this. But just because you don't like the proposal is no reason to go all rabid-dog and try pretending that the suggestion is something it is not.

Now, if this guy started posting multiple threads about bitcoin, that would be another story.

sorry Rin, deleted that post, things going on in rl wife hospital doctors anyway

I am merely trying to convince the developers to accept it. I do not care if players use bitcoin. It doesn't affect my gameplay nearly as much as if I manage to convince the developers.

This statement from him makes me wonder if he gets a small percentage of the cut from bitcoin?? thats the way I read it

while i understand people's reaction...I actually like the idea of bitcoins. Though i have never used them. And the poster is correct. From a seller perspective, paypal is horrible.

"If bitcoin is so great why don't other reputable sites, especially ones involved in gaming such as Humble Bundle, use it?"

Because it is still a young technology. Adoption for new technologies is slow.

"completely useless, worthless and something that would potentially destabilize VO."

How would this destablize VO? Have you read my proposal, and seen how completely harmless it is? Have you seen my suggested methods, which would allow VO to maintain it's current profit margins with zero risk due to bitcoin's volatility? This just screams "hey I didn't read your posts but THIS IS WHY THAT WON'T WORK!"

I'll ignore your statements of comparing bitcoin to a scam, because obviously I am trying to scam VO. You caught me.

"I particularly like how the poster resorts to completely ludicrous personal attacks of the variety one might expect when disagreeing with any random cult member..."

So just because some other random person who likes Bitcoin is an idiot, means the currency is worthless? What does that have anything to do with this thread?

"Really this says it all about bitcoin..."

How does that say ANYTHING about Bitcoin? At all? *sigh*

@Pizzasgood, first non-idiotic post in this thread. Thank you.

"This statement from him makes me wonder if he gets a small percentage of the cut from bitcoin?? thats the way I read it"

If you believe that, then you honestly have no idea what bitcoin is or how it works. I will not see any cut from VO using bitcoin. *It's not even effing possible*. I have said that about 20 times now, yet you refuse to listen. Instead, you just bathe in your ignorance and continue to shout about wanting to ban me. I do not know how to explain it any further, and honestly do not really care to, because you do not seem to care to listen.

Because it is still a young technology. Adoption for new technologies is slow.

I think it has to do with the fact that it's not a good technology to adopt, not that adoption for new things in general is slow. Humble Bundle isn't known for its slowness at adopting new things, quite the opposite in fact - Humble Bundle is creating new ideas that other people are adopting.

Paypal is not perfect, but it's not the only option available to subscribers. Bitcoin is a joke.

@Pizzasgood, first non-idiotic post in this thread. Thank you.

I'm glad you're begining to realize just how idiotic your posts are.

@slime73, Humble Bundle is hardly new technology. It offers decent games for people for practically free in a manner that makes them feel good (eg, donating to charities), so it's no wonder that it's so successful. It's just a new method of distribution, not a completely new technology.

@genka, csb, quit trollin'

If you had read my post more carefully you would have noticed I said it's a new idea, not a new technology. ;)

If bitcoin is worth adopting, why have there been so many news stories about controversies and Bad Things happening to it, yet none about anything adopting it, even though it has been around for a few years now? Its initial release was in January 2009 (over 3 years ago), not exactly brand new as far as online technologies go.

There are hundreds of differences between HB and BTC that make them so incomparable when it comes to adopting new "ideas". Sure, the business plan of HB is new, but for the end user, it's same shit, different package. You give them money, you get games. Only you decide how much money, and where that money goes. BTC is a completely new idea for so many people. It's incredibly foreign compared to everything they are used to. Most people have never had to even exchange a currency before, let alone with something such as Bitcoin.

As for the lack of adoption, I would link you to a wiki page which would show you how Bitcoin is gathering adoption rates pretty fast, but every link I have made in this thread has been deleted as apparently linking to a wiki is spam. Google "bitcoin trade" for it, though.

As for Bad Things, well... Bad Things happen when there is money involved. Always has, always will. People lie, cheat, hack, all to steal USD. That doesn't make the USD less secure, and it doesn't make the USD bad, it just makes people bad. The same can be said of BTC. As long as you use safe practices with BTC (just as you need safe practices with USD), then your coins won't be stolen. As for why it has been in the news so much for the so called Bad Things, it's because it's easy to report and mock it when bad things happen. Instead of actually comparing it to other currencies which face the exact same problems, they just chop it up to Bitcoin being a failure, because it's easy to do and most of your readers will agree with you without thinking. I could link you so many news posts lying about Bitcoin, calling it a scam or a ponzi scheme (I swear, people these days don't even know what a ponzi scheme is), calling it fraud, calling it insecure. I could, but they'd probably just be deleted again :P. I can disprove almost every one of their lies. I don't know if their lies come out of ignorance or out of deceit, but all it really does is further hurts Bitcoin, which is sad.

Anyway, thank you for the responses, I do enjoy debating with someone that can keep a calm mind and not randomly start swearing and trolling. :)

I was not drawing a parallel between HIB and Bitcoin, I was giving HIB as an example of a new service that is open to new ideas (and new payment methods) but does not use the relatively new Bitcoin.

From the Games section of that wiki:

"Bitcoin2CDKey.com Buy Game cd keys with bitcoins, battlefield 3, mw3, mass effect 3, counter strike go, dota 2, max payne, Fifa 12, steam keys, origin keys, gfwl games, and more!"

"BitCashLotto.com BitCashLotto.com is a create your own lottery bitcoin game."

"Give Me Bitcoins is a great way to earn BTC by completing free offers (quick surveys, trails etc.) Get 0.01 BTC just by signing up!"

"Bitcoin Darts is a simple darts game played with bitcoins."

"Second Life via VirWoX Buy Linden Dollars for Bitcoins at VirWoX and choose from over 1 million virtual items to buy for your Second Life avatar!"

"Backcoin Betting with no registration. Starcraft2 and other games."

The interesting thing to note about the sites listed in the Games section (all of them, not just the ones I quoted) is that none of them are actual first-party sources to reputable paid games. They are all about either gambling, exchanging bitcoin for services in the game via a third party, or games built specifically around bitcoin. I was expecting better.

Bad Things happen to nearly everything, but my point (which you graciously helped prove by providing that wiki) was that no reputable things have happened in the gaming world that involve bitcoin. Why would the developers take the time to add something which has had a lot of trouble in the past, seems to be a passing fad, and has no notable game developers or publishers using it?

Your last paragraph in the OP is completely false, too (as pointed out earlier I believe). It has not been worth it by a long shot to mine bitcoin since before it started getting noticed. A long time ago.

An interesting thing to note is that it is in the best interest of people who have been in the business of mining bitcoin for a long time to get more people to use it, because bitcoins get harder to mine as more of them get mined (from my understanding), so people who start earlier will have a massive advantage.

"The interesting thing to note about the sites listed in the Games section (all of them, not just the ones I quoted) is that none of them are actual first-party sources to reputable paid games. They are all about either gambling, exchanging bitcoin for services in the game via a third party, or games built specifically around bitcoin. I was expecting better."

This is true. It's part of the adoption thing. As more people accept it, more people use it, so more and more people accept it. My own MMO accepts it, but is not listed on that wiki.

"Bad Things happen to nearly everything, but my point (which you graciously helped prove by providing that wiki) was that no reputable things have happened in the gaming world that involve bitcoin. Why would the developers take the time to add something which has had a lot of trouble in the past, seems to be a passing fad, and has no notable game developers or publishers using it?"

Why does it matter that some random services have been hacked in the past? That's, again, like saying using USD as a currency is less credible just because it's been hacked. I can understand distancing it because of popularity, but because of hacking is just silly, as I have tried to show you a few times now. Why does it matter that no other games take BTC? In the end, VO gets their money for people who pay via Bitcoins, there is no chance of hacking (because VO does not run anything BTC related), there is no chance of losing money via volatility because the BTC is sold immediately, etc. It would take an hour or two to implement and please a ton of people, plus get VO some more publicity. It's win/win situation, and every argument that you are making does not change the bottom line that in the end, VO still wins.

"Your last paragraph in the OP is completely false, too (as pointed out earlier I believe). It has not been worth it by a long shot to mine bitcoin since before it started getting noticed. A long time ago.

An interesting thing to note is that it is in the best interest of people who have been in the business of mining bitcoin for a long time to get more people to use it, because bitcoins get harder to mine as more of them get mined (from my understanding), so people who start earlier will have a massive advantage."

It's not profitable? Well, tell that to the dozen rigs I have mining right now in the other room! I've already demonstrated that it is still profitable earlier in this thread. Also, BTC do become harder to mine as more people are mining (and easier to mine the less people are mining), but that should actually be incentive for me to convince people NOT to mine. Think about it, if I am still mining, do I really want to convince others to mine, thereby increasing difficulty and lowering the amount of BTC I make? Not to mention these people would likely sell the BTC immediately, which will increase supply and drop the price of the coins. I am absolutely not here trying to profit in any way/shape/form by trying to get VO to accept Bitcoins. It does not make sense, it wouldn't be worth my time, and frankly I'm just getting tired of having to defend myself against such claims.

My reasons for posting this, as I have said dozens of times now, are
1) to be able to pay for VO using Bitcoins,
2) to allow others the same option

You can cry fowl (caw caw!) all you want on BTC, but the cold, hard facts are that this is incredibly low risk for VO, they will never have to deal with chargebacks, the fees are a tiny fraction of what PayPal charges, and players will be able to play the game and support the developers for FREE. No amount of evidence or counter claims issued so far in this thread has disproved any of these facts. If I have missed a rebuttal that you feel counters them, please point it out to me.

Getting a legitimate company to accept a decentralized internet based currency is going to be about as successful as getting a fortune 500 company to develop applications with lolcode. From a purely theoretical standpoint, I'd be interested to see if they could be successfully implemented into an established business, but you have to look at convenience as the barrier to adoption.

Bitcoins' real strength is that it's not controlled by a single entity, which makes it perfect for funding a controversial organization, purchasing something that is of questionable legality, etc. For purchasing a mainstream product such as a video game, there's little incentive to purchase bitcoins, gambling on the exchange rate, when customers can use paypal or a credit card with fewer steps to completion.

And from a vendors' perspective, an MMO is really not the ideal candidate for adoption, as they are in less danger from paypal's shenanigans. If a customer contests a transaction, GS can disable the customer's account, invalidating the work they have done to build their character.

"For purchasing a mainstream product such as a video game, there's little incentive to purchase bitcoins, gambling on the exchange rate, when customers can use paypal or a credit card with fewer steps to completion."

Except as I said, I am not willing to use PayPal and I am not comfortable with giving VO my CC. I'm not suggesting VO add BTC because everyone and their mother will sub to VO and start paying with BTC, I'm suggesting it because it will be some publicity, because it will convenience me and other BTC users, because it will allow current subs to pay for the game for free, etc. It'd be foolish of me to suggest BTC would be a popular option on VO. But when you look at the small amount of work it requires, compared to the potential return, it is definitely worth it.

"If a customer contests a transaction, GS can disable the customer's account, invalidating the work they have done to build their character."

That is assuming the person cares about the account. Situations where people don't care about the account include people who use hacks and store funds on an alternate account (think aim bots), spam bots, trade bots, etc. I've developed many game hacks in my time, and I think I've only lost two accounts that I ever actually cared about, and that was when I was still young and naive. It seems botting isn't a huge problem in VO (except classibot being all stupid in /100 lately), but for many games, chargebacks are simply a solution to normal players, not the people who would ACTUALLY charge back (hackers/botters).

If you want to pay for VO with bitcoins, because maybe you have alot of them,the best way is to exchange them (at MtGox or whatever) for USD and pay with the USD. From what I can tell it isn't too much of a process for you to put money into a method of payment that VO supports.

There are many reasons that make using BitCoin "risky" for any company or buisness. After looking into this and weighing the possible good vs. the possible bad my risk assessment has returned that bitcoin is indeed something to stay away from. If for some reason I had bitcoins I would get rid of them as fast as possible and run. Put simply, I would rather invest in a potential stock market bubble or the next credit default swaps (neither of which I am likely to do). Also, one of the many great things about a scam is making you believe entirely that it is not or could not ever be a scam.

~Interstellar

P.S. http://threatpost.com/en_us/blogs/cloud-service-linode-hacked-bitcoin-accounts-emptied-030212

EDIT: I believe that that article reports the loss to be around $14,000 but others seem to report it at over $200,000. I realize the original security flaw was not with bitcoin itself but the fact still remains that this is a problem involving bitcoin thus a problem with bitcoin.

"There are many reasons that make using BitCoin "risky" for any company or buisness. After looking into this and weighing the possible good vs. the possible bad my risk assessment has returned that bitcoin is indeed something to stay away from. If for some reason I had bitcoins I would get rid of them as fast as possible and run."

aka

"a herp derp guys this bank got robbed last night, WE BETTER SELL ALL OF OUR USD AND NEVER USE IT AGAIN"

or, aka

"I cannot read a single post in this thread, and certainly not one of the several posts where Gary dismisses this as the bs that it is"

"If you want to pay for VO with bitcoins, because maybe you have alot of them,the best way is to exchange them (at MtGox or whatever) for USD and pay with the USD. From what I can tell it isn't too much of a process for you to put money into a method of payment that VO supports."

This just furthers the evidence that you cannot read ANY posts. Especially not the very first post of this entire thread, where I've stated the reason I want to use Bitcoins is because I do not want to use a CC or PayPal. C'mon now, reading is *not that difficult*.

Funny how you tell people not to "resort to hostile or argumentative posts" and then insult and argue with everyone who is against the idea you present.

If I ignored all the problems with your suggestion, I'd rather bitcoin not be a payment option simply because I don't think your attitude would be healthy for the community, and it seems you don't want to play the game without being able to use bitcoin.