If you want my specific opinion, I think the nerfable nonsense such as rocket detonation radius and ship statistics should be left up to trial and error. My big theory is that multiplicity breeds balance. The more options there are and the more diverse they are, the more likely it is that you'll have a statistically proportional distribution. This is really just a reaction to what I saw while playing the game and reading the threads.

But on that tactical divergence note we all seem to like now, one can go to the extreme of suggesting that it should be possible for no two ships to be alike. Player choice will defeat the snowflake effect, but the diversity would be enough to counter the dominance of any single template. An analogy: anyone who has played Diablo II is familiar with "cookie-cutter" characters. Effective but dull. Any character with more ingenuity can waste them if played properly. I'd like to see that. I'd like to see signature ships and weapons that cater specifically to each player. Some have suggested BYO ship concepts. If executed properly, I'm all for that.

I'd like to see more consequences. You die, you feel the pain. You want something really cool, you work for it. I'd like to see high bounties and real hunts; I'd like to see prolonged encounters and heated dogfights. I'd like to see structured battles and complex operations. Hell, I'd like to see Freespace as a MMORPG (capital ships and all), but that's not going to happen. :)

Here, I've got to make a confession. I've been involved in hashing out game concepts for a small RPG in development. That's my role. I can show you a target, but damned if I know how to get you there. People like you and the devs figure that part out. It's better if you ask me what I think on a particular thing and then I'll give you a formulated and precise response. Beyond that, I'm just telling you what I see.

What do I think about rockets? Make them smaller, make them faster, and make them do less damage when fired from small ports. And make millions of them. All different kinds. Aspect-seeking, homing, dumbfire. And make them all _suck_ unless they're used right. And if you're going to load up a ship with them, you tell me how the devil forty-eight of the things are going to fit in a ship twelve meters long and ten wide (or whatever the dimensions are). Or thirty-two in a ship smaller than that. Yes, I'm talking about sunflares, Valkyries, Vultures, and the like...

See how I get when I become opinionated? These are opinions, and I can't back them up with facts. So I avoid them. Feel free to tear this post apart. I'm on an off-day. :)

rogue you are saying it yourselve.

It is the weapons employed on the ship, not the ship. If you decrease the prox to 10 m, doing the same will get a lot more difficult. Becaus ein the long run, it would be the same as ramming with only 1 flare. I know it is still possible, and that it hurts. But to pull it off will be a lot more difficult.

Oh and uncle, dont start talking about the prom. It is a very decent ship; Yes it is no valk. But still if you compare it with any comparable bomber. Then it rules them all. Another 2k hull would be nice, but it is a great ship. So stop complaining.

My point nether was that every "fix" that you proposed has already been discussed into length. And every time it gets back turned up and everybody states the same thing again. As do I. So if the devs dont react then that is because they dont have time, arent inclined to do it or have their own ideas and want us to like usually just stand in awe when they complete it.

So for the love of god, stop making these total revamps and start making small changes. As celebrim stated, you want an example from a big change, look at the rail gun. I know I wouldnt like it either gettig pampered by a rail. But still, now it isnt even usable anymore :(. So in stead of broading our choices we are actually limiting them.

cheerios

It's the ship too. In my vulture, I hit him more than he hit me. But since he did, like, 1/3 my hull per shot, I didn't have much of a chance. My centurion was especially funny, with the 55% damage done per shot. Oww. Here's the ships I used with no success:

Centurion: 1 rail
Centurion: 1 grav
Hornet: 4 grav
Hornet: 4 gauss
Vulture: 2 Tachy
Vulture: 2 Sunflare
Raganorak: 3 gemini, 2 swarm

Try this:

Ragnarok
3 sunflares + Jackhammer
Locust swarms

Hog
Adv gat
sunflare

Wraith
2 sunflare and jackhammer/screamer or locusts.

you get lucky in a vult with double gauss sometimes to :D

cheers

"sometimes"
exactly. that's why i'm all for decreasing the prox on sunflares (i hate em anyway... patrially because i can't use them).
but i second dave on the prom. it is just not uber enough (when considered as an extremely rare vessel, like the specials are gonna be). hell, a vult can take out a prom with tachyons without breaking a sweat, much less get on fire.
now, if the valk were more seldom than the prom, o.k.

toshiro, it all depends from the tactic that the prom uses.

If the prom comes close and shoots "rams" the vult then it will die.

If the vult comes close and prom has a swarmsetup, then the vult will be dead. Or at least heavilly in flames.

If the vult stays at a medium/long distance, hten i suggest running and getting yourselve a fighter ship.

I only want 1 more shot in the swarms. 5 isnt a nice number, but 6 is :D.

Besides if a prom runs, then it is very difficult to kill it, yes it can be pampered down,but it sure takes a hell of a long time, especially when the sunnies will get changed to a lower prox. But as you yourselve stated a heavy transport isnt supposed to take out a fighter. But vice versa it is.

So if you do compare the prom with any other ship, then compare it with one of the same class, like the rag or the centaur or the wraith. And the prom sticks out with flag and whimple above these all.

cheers

Renegade, that wasnt my point.

Valk > Maud > Prom.

Wrong.
It should be:

Valk = Maud = Prom.

If they are to be equally rare, they need to be equally good.

/me seconds dave on that

If only there was a way to give them good accelleration but slow turn rates. The Marauder could be made to accellerate super-fast, yet turn like a hornet, so it doesn't fight as well as a Valk. That way, the Maud would be balanced out. But it's moot since that isn't how the game works. *sigh*

The maud is not a valkyrie, which is not a prom

Marauder is not Valkyrie is not Prometheus

Each has a different use
(Marauder = cargo ship) is not (valkyrie = fighter) is not (prometheus = armored bomber)
Valkyrie, designed not to take hits, to dodge, and to fight.
Marauder, designed to move, and take hits, mostly move.
Prometheus, designed not to move very well, to absorb shots, to bomb stuff.

Edit: rats, message board doesn't support the not equal to character, just pretend is not is the funny equal sign with a slash through it.

I agree with SL.

Here's what Dave should have said:

The Maurader's specialty of hauling cargo is just as good as the Valkyrie's in being a fighter, as well as the Prometheus's ability at taking damage and dishing it out.

The reason people see "Valk > Maud > Prom" as the way things are is that their perspective makes them judge all ships by their effectiveness in 1:1 confrontations. The aspects of trading and bombing aren't as well implemented yet... so SL raises a great point. We just happen to have two extra ships that are REALLY good for something we don't have much of a use for (yet).

I like to think of them as bits of the game skeleton that have yet to be fleshed out. Wait until the environment gives them some muscle before trying to mess with what they can do. Even comparing them at this point isn't going to get you very far at all.

People keep thinking of the Marauder as a trade ship. I don't. It seems to me like the ideal pirate ship. Well armed, decent hull, decent speed, lots of cargo to take. It happens to be the best trade ship as well, but only because we don't have the bigger ones yet.

Magus you contradicted yourselve :D

People keep thinking of the Marauder as a trade ship
it happens to be the best trade ship as well

so is it a tradeship or a pirateship :D.

Hey sui, dont steal my point. That was what I tried to imply but failed misserably :(.
And Nether, you still repeat what I say only a little bit more euhm yeah organised :D and structured ;).

It's both. That's why I like the Marauder, versatility. It can fill multiple roles.
People keep trying to classify it as solely a tradeship, so they treat it like one whenever they talk about it. Although it is a great trade ship, it's capable of so much more.
Itani= Speed
Serco= Strenght
Neutral= Flexibility

/me starts cheering for magus now ;D


/me shouts with a silly cheerleader voice
go magus go, go magus go, go go goooooooo. He is our man, if he cant do it , nobody can :D
/me ends shouting :D

«rats, message board doesn't support the not equal to character, just pretend is not is the funny equal sign with a slash through it.»

hmm... ever consider boolean syntax? "is not" == "!=", value = true or 1 (2, 3, ...)

«The reason people see "Valk > Maud > Prom" as the way things are is that their perspective makes them judge all ships by their effectiveness in 1:1 confrontations. The aspects of trading and bombing aren't as well implemented yet... so SL raises a great point. We just happen to have two extra ships that are REALLY good for something we don't have much of a use for (yet).»

yes, well... call me whiny, but every time i manage to kill a guy in coop with somebody using a heavy ship (rag, prom...) and me flying a fighter craft (i really hate slow ships... hog is the slowest i can take), they start to cry and shout "2v1 is no fair that kill doesn't count...".
i even stopped whining about that myself (for one thing, i do it, too and also, air/space superiority is meant to be put to use).

I think in discussing cost we should keep in mind the wise words of Chris Rock: "We don't need gun control, we need bullet control. If a bullet cost $5,000 we'd have a lot fewer innocent bystanders."

Really. For the damage a Flare costs 40 credits? That's another way to approach the cost factor. If a TriFlare vaulk was dumping 450 credits with every shot. that would change the tactics. (Once the economy is revised.)

trick, then why should we buy rockets if an energy weapons loadout is free :D

cheers