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vskye: Thanks for once again proving my point... That the really stupid and annoying people won't understand the sarcasm, and it messes with their tiny brains...
As for your other claim:
a) The training missions have absolutely nothing to do with Rules of Conduct, but I can understand it confuses you
b) I have done all the training missions, and most likely understand more behind how VO works than you do, considering I have programmed my own MMO's in the past.
c) As a 7 year veteran of Jumpgate, the original twitch-based MMO space sim (which you should read up about if you want to continue arguing with me), I have a fair idea of what makes a game like VO successful
Dr.Lecter: Concise, succinct and clear enough for you?
As for your other claim:
a) The training missions have absolutely nothing to do with Rules of Conduct, but I can understand it confuses you
b) I have done all the training missions, and most likely understand more behind how VO works than you do, considering I have programmed my own MMO's in the past.
c) As a 7 year veteran of Jumpgate, the original twitch-based MMO space sim (which you should read up about if you want to continue arguing with me), I have a fair idea of what makes a game like VO successful
Dr.Lecter: Concise, succinct and clear enough for you?
I think the real issue here is that, unlike those MMO's you've played and programmed in the long twelve years of your life, VO has a community of people that would prefer it if no-one held their hand while they crossed the street. Yes, I am sure there are forums and games out there such that a single curse word may well get you banned, and I am sure you feel at home in such "mature" communities.
The thing is, this community is not made up of twelve year olds, and therefore has no need for the draconian over-moderation that you've grown accustomed to. People do what they want, when they want to and how they want to. And this is not a result of years of neglect, as you may think, but rather the way the devs want the game to be. Does that mean the devs want the forums inundated with ryan reign's incessant whining, or lecter's wild mood swings, or tarenty's holier-than-everyone bullshit, or my own infrequent contributions? No, certainly not. I hope not.
What it does mean is that the game is, and was designed as, an open world. There are no magical or illogical barriers to your actions. If there's nothing stopping you from doing it then it means that you're allowed to. Want to attack newbs without warning or provocation? Want to mine asteroids until their temperature is comparable to that of the sun? Want to systematically tank your standing with each faction? These are all things that you are welcome to do. (I realise that as a long-time MMO player this must be a shocking and new concept for you, so go ahead take a few minutes. This post will still be here when you get back. Even if I do say "Fuckitty fucking fuck fuckitty fuck.")
How, then, with all of these freedoms we can't have in the real world, can you expect the devs to go full-on-soviet on the one freedom most of us do enjoy in real life? It's obvious that some level of moderation is required to keep a community that includes both Shape and me in it from tearing itself apart, but I think it should be clear to you by now that this level of moderation is a begrudging sacrifice to the gods of internet anonymity, and not a fundamental part of Incarnate's vision.
PS: In case you weren't entirely sure if your past MMO-playing experience is a credit or not, the answer is: no, it isn't.
Some people still remember the amusing day when the space-flight MMO EnB closed its doors, and hundreds of newbs poured into the then-beta (I think) Vendetta Online. They quickly formed a guild, expanded it to an unheard-of size (something like 200 people!) and proceeded to putter about the universe, complaining about stupid shit. I was even a member of said guild, for a short ten minutes, until I was kicked out for "abandoning a guildie in an ion storm," instead of turning around and helping him fight off a sector full of guardians. I believe this is also the period of time when the term "carebear" came into use around here. They brought it with them. In funny statements along the lines of "I'm not a carebear, but..."
Consider, then, how many of these hundreds of experienced MMO players are still here.
PPS: What would you call a newb that makes inane suggestions, goes off the rocker when no-one takes him seriously, starts making new accounts and threats about "dishing it" under the cover of "clarifying the rules" and then starts up flamewars about himself?
Hint:
The thing is, this community is not made up of twelve year olds, and therefore has no need for the draconian over-moderation that you've grown accustomed to. People do what they want, when they want to and how they want to. And this is not a result of years of neglect, as you may think, but rather the way the devs want the game to be. Does that mean the devs want the forums inundated with ryan reign's incessant whining, or lecter's wild mood swings, or tarenty's holier-than-everyone bullshit, or my own infrequent contributions? No, certainly not. I hope not.
What it does mean is that the game is, and was designed as, an open world. There are no magical or illogical barriers to your actions. If there's nothing stopping you from doing it then it means that you're allowed to. Want to attack newbs without warning or provocation? Want to mine asteroids until their temperature is comparable to that of the sun? Want to systematically tank your standing with each faction? These are all things that you are welcome to do. (I realise that as a long-time MMO player this must be a shocking and new concept for you, so go ahead take a few minutes. This post will still be here when you get back. Even if I do say "Fuckitty fucking fuck fuckitty fuck.")
How, then, with all of these freedoms we can't have in the real world, can you expect the devs to go full-on-soviet on the one freedom most of us do enjoy in real life? It's obvious that some level of moderation is required to keep a community that includes both Shape and me in it from tearing itself apart, but I think it should be clear to you by now that this level of moderation is a begrudging sacrifice to the gods of internet anonymity, and not a fundamental part of Incarnate's vision.
PS: In case you weren't entirely sure if your past MMO-playing experience is a credit or not, the answer is: no, it isn't.
Some people still remember the amusing day when the space-flight MMO EnB closed its doors, and hundreds of newbs poured into the then-beta (I think) Vendetta Online. They quickly formed a guild, expanded it to an unheard-of size (something like 200 people!) and proceeded to putter about the universe, complaining about stupid shit. I was even a member of said guild, for a short ten minutes, until I was kicked out for "abandoning a guildie in an ion storm," instead of turning around and helping him fight off a sector full of guardians. I believe this is also the period of time when the term "carebear" came into use around here. They brought it with them. In funny statements along the lines of "I'm not a carebear, but..."
Consider, then, how many of these hundreds of experienced MMO players are still here.
PPS: What would you call a newb that makes inane suggestions, goes off the rocker when no-one takes him seriously, starts making new accounts and threats about "dishing it" under the cover of "clarifying the rules" and then starts up flamewars about himself?
Hint:
Genka: I think if you read the posts on here, you would realize that I do get it... I may not agree with it entirely, but that's how it works, so Fit In or Fuck Off are my choices...
The term "carebear" does however bring back fond memories of said EnB players joining Jumpgate and having the crap blasted out of them for staying stupid shit. Even myself doing some of the blasting, although my RP was to destroy the Conflux menace, and not other players.
As for past MMO-experience not counting, I am sure all the EVE (I said it :-P), WoW, Farmville and Wizards 101 players that do come here are quite shocked and completely useless. However, your claim that my 7 years of playing a twitch-based space MMO, that VO tries to emulate nearly precisely, down to the physics model, the nations, the back story, the economy and the missions just shows your ignorance. It's kinda like saying because I drove a Ford for 7 years, I have no experience to talk about driving a Toyota... It's braindead to say the least. If you did bother reading up about Jumpgate before making your post, you would have realized that it was very unfriendly to newbies, with no training missions or safety nets to protect you... You learned the hard way, or got a mentor, and dying in Jumpgate was by NO MEANS as cheap as VO. Equipment was limited, and darn expensive... Wish they would do that here ;-)
PPS. If you are trying to link me to WhiteRC, PoL, or any other player for that matter, I wish you the best of luck. I am not any one of them, nor do I agree with their silly childish tantrums or them leaving the game over dumb shit.
EDIT: For anyone interested : http://www.jossh.com/join_today/JG_recruit_files/jg.html
The term "carebear" does however bring back fond memories of said EnB players joining Jumpgate and having the crap blasted out of them for staying stupid shit. Even myself doing some of the blasting, although my RP was to destroy the Conflux menace, and not other players.
As for past MMO-experience not counting, I am sure all the EVE (I said it :-P), WoW, Farmville and Wizards 101 players that do come here are quite shocked and completely useless. However, your claim that my 7 years of playing a twitch-based space MMO, that VO tries to emulate nearly precisely, down to the physics model, the nations, the back story, the economy and the missions just shows your ignorance. It's kinda like saying because I drove a Ford for 7 years, I have no experience to talk about driving a Toyota... It's braindead to say the least. If you did bother reading up about Jumpgate before making your post, you would have realized that it was very unfriendly to newbies, with no training missions or safety nets to protect you... You learned the hard way, or got a mentor, and dying in Jumpgate was by NO MEANS as cheap as VO. Equipment was limited, and darn expensive... Wish they would do that here ;-)
PPS. If you are trying to link me to WhiteRC, PoL, or any other player for that matter, I wish you the best of luck. I am not any one of them, nor do I agree with their silly childish tantrums or them leaving the game over dumb shit.
EDIT: For anyone interested : http://www.jossh.com/join_today/JG_recruit_files/jg.html
And yet, here you are, throwing a tantrum and trolling up a storm.
I agree Whistler is a terrible Mod.
And yet here you are, without a single counterpoint to anything I said... In case you hadn't noticed, that is generally how a discussion is held
That's because he hasn't banned you or anything yet impy. :P
vskye: Thanks for once again proving my point... That the really stupid and annoying people won't understand the sarcasm, and it messes with their tiny brains...
As for your other claim:
a) The training missions have absolutely nothing to do with Rules of Conduct, but I can understand it confuses you
b) I have done all the training missions, and most likely understand more behind how VO works than you do, considering I have programmed my own MMO's in the past.
c) As a 7 year veteran of Jumpgate, the original twitch-based MMO space sim (which you should read up about if you want to continue arguing with me), I have a fair idea of what makes a game like VO successful
Dr.Lecter: Concise, succinct and clear enough for you?
No.
Also: It's obvious that some level of moderation is required to keep a community that includes both Shape and me in it from tearing itself apart . . .
Genka +100
As for your other claim:
a) The training missions have absolutely nothing to do with Rules of Conduct, but I can understand it confuses you
b) I have done all the training missions, and most likely understand more behind how VO works than you do, considering I have programmed my own MMO's in the past.
c) As a 7 year veteran of Jumpgate, the original twitch-based MMO space sim (which you should read up about if you want to continue arguing with me), I have a fair idea of what makes a game like VO successful
Dr.Lecter: Concise, succinct and clear enough for you?
No.
Also: It's obvious that some level of moderation is required to keep a community that includes both Shape and me in it from tearing itself apart . . .
Genka +100
yarr
HuntrCkr said:
"I understand now that the RoC as posted on the website here is more of a guideline than rules, and that consequences are decided on a case by case basis, instead of just applied blindly."
That is pretty much the essence of the forums and of the game so far. It is my observation that the devs tend to apply hard rules and physical limitations only when necessary - and tend to leave other areas to evolve (and sometimes devolve) organically. Some of the benefits are that users may take things in an unexpected but really interesting direction, a particular type of player is attracted to the potential of such freedom, and less time is spent oppressing the users. As a result, there is clearly a sense of ownership among many of the players. One of ways this is expressed is through the sense of community in the forums - the majority of the users set the overall tone for others and tend to keep things down to a bearable level through social pressure. Like any community, not everyone follows the social norms, which is where moderation becomes necessary. I think we're already familiar with the drawbacks. I sometimes think of it like traffic in Shanghai: when it works, it works pretty well. When it falls apart, it can be spectacular (but it gets sorted out pretty quickly here, unlike the 6-day traffic jam).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cj4LrSxjTIM
"I understand now that the RoC as posted on the website here is more of a guideline than rules, and that consequences are decided on a case by case basis, instead of just applied blindly."
That is pretty much the essence of the forums and of the game so far. It is my observation that the devs tend to apply hard rules and physical limitations only when necessary - and tend to leave other areas to evolve (and sometimes devolve) organically. Some of the benefits are that users may take things in an unexpected but really interesting direction, a particular type of player is attracted to the potential of such freedom, and less time is spent oppressing the users. As a result, there is clearly a sense of ownership among many of the players. One of ways this is expressed is through the sense of community in the forums - the majority of the users set the overall tone for others and tend to keep things down to a bearable level through social pressure. Like any community, not everyone follows the social norms, which is where moderation becomes necessary. I think we're already familiar with the drawbacks. I sometimes think of it like traffic in Shanghai: when it works, it works pretty well. When it falls apart, it can be spectacular (but it gets sorted out pretty quickly here, unlike the 6-day traffic jam).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cj4LrSxjTIM