Forums » Suggestions

Can we nerf guardians yet?

«12
May 11, 2011 Lord~spidey link
Being able to kill a guardian doesn't make it worth it,

I fucking hate breaking my ass and shooting a bot for a solid 30 seconds for it to die only to get 150exp
May 12, 2011 zak.wilson link
Guardians aren't too tough. The problem is that the missions encourage new players to go straight from collectors to guardians, and the XP reward is still too low after being increased. The majority of players agree that Tycorps are easier than Apus. The missions and rewards should reflect that.
May 12, 2011 Alloh link
So, 2 solutions out of this:

1. Change mission text and make it sound challenging... state that most pilots simply cannot handle it and you can abort it without penalties
2. Increase the reward for killing guardians
May 12, 2011 Shapenaji link
Guardians are the closest thing to a boss that we have in the early game, when a new player works hard to take one down, they expect... something, for their time and effort. When you don't pay that off you are planting the idea that the universe does not reward hard work.

Bosses are supposed to be special, in other MMO's they drop shiny things.

(Phaserlight, I realize you don't seem to like other MMO's, but I don't see why you would have a problem with the "risk-reward" paradigm)

If you're not going to boost the reward in terms of xp, at least boost it in terms of weapon drops. Make drops from guardians more frequent (They do have Buku weaponry, SOME of it should survive), and make the items strictly better than what players are likely to be able to buy at their level.

(Aputech's dropping a "beginner" flechette with very similar stats that they can equip, etc..)

Guardians are the first thing people run into that tests the "Risk-reward"-model of the game, It would not surprise me in the slightest if you lost potential subscribers to an Aputech-5
May 12, 2011 Ghost link
Who let Shape out?
May 12, 2011 davejohn link
They do take a bit of practice. Really, dodging and firing in short bursts is the key, watch the available power. Phaserlight gives good advice on the matter.

Most dangerous of all is the Manchester Guardian : pedantic and always lurches to the left.

( um , sorry , that was an old british political joke. I suspect that myself , JE and Ifor will understand it. I really don't care if no-one does. )
May 14, 2011 Phaserlight link
The only other Massively Multiplayer Online game that kept my interest for any length of time was World of Warcraft. I played enough to rank up a level 29 troll priest on Firetree.

Risk vs Reward is a Good Thing, however I think the rewards for taking on Guardians may not be readily apparent. Remember that they drop Guardian Processor Cores, which are used in crafting pet Stygian Furies, Widowmakers, and Concussion Railguns. Learning to kill these Guardians in the early game may mean a more successful later game for the patient type.

As cardinalsmurf points out, Guardians also guard other useful bots, and therefore are a kind of stepping stone toward alternate objectives. Knowing how to kill them or avoid them is useful, and so Advanced Combat Practice provides an opportunity to learn just that. The word "Advanced" in the mission title should be caveat enough for the endeavor.
May 15, 2011 Shapenaji link
I don't think anyone's arguing that knowing how to kill them is not a good thing. And while we may know that "the reward is in the action", how does that position help our game. What's wrong with a physical reward to go with? It's not as if this game is all about grinding out levels (of which there are not many). As far as I can tell, it doesn't hurt any part of game play to change the rewards on these. But it will go a long way to helping new precocious pilots feel loved.

EDIT: also, the rewards as far as drops MAY be there, (I have my doubts as to usefulness of any of those items for a new player) but they are obscured to a new player. It's a long road to end up with those items, and it seems a poor justification for reduced benefits when they're level 2
May 16, 2011 meridian link
In update 1.8.124 (just over year ago) the XP for guardians and overseers was increased. However the XP was increased for only some guardians, and not all of them. As far as I know, the devs never confirmed that it was their intention to only increase the XP for a subset of the guardians. A bug report was opened here:

http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/2/23124
May 16, 2011 Lord~spidey link
yea the Ornes and Arklans don't pay out much but newbs don't fight those too often.
May 16, 2011 PaKettle link
Still they could use a hefty xp increase.
May 16, 2011 Maalik link
It might be nice to explain in mission text the general progression of bot difficulty. I can certainly see how to the uninitiated being enticed by the mission to tackle guardians could end up feeling like some kind of betrayal.