Forums » Suggestions
Just to clarify: I think it's weird when the only person to postulate that the general miner population's enjoyment of the game would be mortally affected if they could no longer create gigantic repositories of ore admits that he himself would not be bothered by the change.
Pa,
How does my agreeing that something along the lines of what has been discussed in this thread even remotely suggest that I am forgetting that? I am not at all opposed to some reasonable form of the suggested changes. In fact I was yelling about the lack of 'cost of doing business' 4 years ago!
What I have been trying to express and rather obviously failing at, is that I would rather see implementation of positive incentives than negative at this time. By negative, I don't necessarily mean 'bad'. What I am saying is that this is a restrictive suggestion that imo does not add anything to the game because I foresee very few people changing their habits even at the 150,000cr that Maalik suggested would be acceptable to him. This incentive is not going to get more people logging on more often imo because it offers them nothing interesting they can do. Maybe people will find it more immersive, I probably would myself. Its still not going to get me interested in actually logging on and doing stuff again.
I would rather see real manufacturing- not the crap the devs currently have available- implemented in conjunction with something like this. Then immediate implementation would have my wholehearted and rather more vocal support (try to imagine that and still sleep at night). This is because your adding a positive incentive to dispose of your ore stockpile, and at the same time, allowing players to create high profit items to hold in their place which can be sold to either stations or other traders. Now your really making the implementation of this topic a 'cost of doing business' rather than a 'cost of playing vo'. The benefit is that it creates incentives for players to log on and do interesting stuff and possibly even work together more so than the current Lone Ranger style of gameplay.
Maalik,
The words I used were "I will be minimally affected". What this means is that I would likely mine less than I already do- which isn't much. Which means I will likely be online less than I am now- which atm, isn't much either. Never mind that my comments about mining was only a small portion of what I had to say.
No. Screw that response. Can you please quote where I stated that miners enjoyment would be mortally affected by this change? I believe my comments were...
"Third, What are players storing? You've got miners that have thousands of cube of ore sitting in storage. Why? Because they enjoy mining. They believe someday their ores will matter. The sell price drops too quickly to justify selling everything they mine and yet they enjoy mining because they find it relaxing, a great activity to do while engaged in other things like cleaning house, bullshitting with people in game, or just reading a book."
Which was in response to your query "Can you explain (with evidence) why you believe my change is harmful?" which was to illustrate who would be affected.
To be frank Maalik, you appear to have latched onto this idea as some sort of desperate ploy to discredit my arguments.
How does my agreeing that something along the lines of what has been discussed in this thread even remotely suggest that I am forgetting that? I am not at all opposed to some reasonable form of the suggested changes. In fact I was yelling about the lack of 'cost of doing business' 4 years ago!
What I have been trying to express and rather obviously failing at, is that I would rather see implementation of positive incentives than negative at this time. By negative, I don't necessarily mean 'bad'. What I am saying is that this is a restrictive suggestion that imo does not add anything to the game because I foresee very few people changing their habits even at the 150,000cr that Maalik suggested would be acceptable to him. This incentive is not going to get more people logging on more often imo because it offers them nothing interesting they can do. Maybe people will find it more immersive, I probably would myself. Its still not going to get me interested in actually logging on and doing stuff again.
I would rather see real manufacturing- not the crap the devs currently have available- implemented in conjunction with something like this. Then immediate implementation would have my wholehearted and rather more vocal support (try to imagine that and still sleep at night). This is because your adding a positive incentive to dispose of your ore stockpile, and at the same time, allowing players to create high profit items to hold in their place which can be sold to either stations or other traders. Now your really making the implementation of this topic a 'cost of doing business' rather than a 'cost of playing vo'. The benefit is that it creates incentives for players to log on and do interesting stuff and possibly even work together more so than the current Lone Ranger style of gameplay.
Maalik,
The words I used were "I will be minimally affected". What this means is that I would likely mine less than I already do- which isn't much. Which means I will likely be online less than I am now- which atm, isn't much either. Never mind that my comments about mining was only a small portion of what I had to say.
No. Screw that response. Can you please quote where I stated that miners enjoyment would be mortally affected by this change? I believe my comments were...
"Third, What are players storing? You've got miners that have thousands of cube of ore sitting in storage. Why? Because they enjoy mining. They believe someday their ores will matter. The sell price drops too quickly to justify selling everything they mine and yet they enjoy mining because they find it relaxing, a great activity to do while engaged in other things like cleaning house, bullshitting with people in game, or just reading a book."
Which was in response to your query "Can you explain (with evidence) why you believe my change is harmful?" which was to illustrate who would be affected.
To be frank Maalik, you appear to have latched onto this idea as some sort of desperate ploy to discredit my arguments.
There I was, just hopping along, minding my own business and mistakenly stumbled into bloody VO forums.
The pain, the pain, I can't stand the pain!
From a VO oldtimer (not playing for some time) perspective, this whole discussion is moot.
VO was at its best between 2004-2006 and you know why?
Because RP part of the game was very much alive and a vast majority of players participated in RP.
Serco/Itani conflict was very much alive and CTC was at the center of that conflict, drawing hundreds of players to participate every week. Nation guilds were big and active. Pirate guilds like BLAK & CLM had honor and style, VPRs were strong and traders were traders. Everyone was RPing.
Nobody cared about storage space and similar bull. Everyone was having fun.
Very strange but as VO got more complex, RPing died out and people are having less and less fun.
True, we all had complaints too during 2004-2006: we wanted real and functioning faction system (still nowhere to be seen), guild stations (conquerable stations are not that), better ships and weapons (pffft) etc, etc. But, despite that we never got what we wanted, we were still RPing and enjoying the game.
Obviously a lot has changed recently.
I've noticed a few months back (when I played for a brief time) that retards have taken over the asylum but this has obviously gone too far now.
The pain, the pain, I can't stand the pain!
From a VO oldtimer (not playing for some time) perspective, this whole discussion is moot.
VO was at its best between 2004-2006 and you know why?
Because RP part of the game was very much alive and a vast majority of players participated in RP.
Serco/Itani conflict was very much alive and CTC was at the center of that conflict, drawing hundreds of players to participate every week. Nation guilds were big and active. Pirate guilds like BLAK & CLM had honor and style, VPRs were strong and traders were traders. Everyone was RPing.
Nobody cared about storage space and similar bull. Everyone was having fun.
Very strange but as VO got more complex, RPing died out and people are having less and less fun.
True, we all had complaints too during 2004-2006: we wanted real and functioning faction system (still nowhere to be seen), guild stations (conquerable stations are not that), better ships and weapons (pffft) etc, etc. But, despite that we never got what we wanted, we were still RPing and enjoying the game.
Obviously a lot has changed recently.
I've noticed a few months back (when I played for a brief time) that retards have taken over the asylum but this has obviously gone too far now.
bojanplash: What do you think is wrong with not having effectively infinite station storage?
Death Fluffy: I wish that you wouldn't take everything so personally. I'm basically just replying to your relies at this point so we are both responsible for how boring the discussion has become.
I understood you to argue that this change would be harmful, in large part, because miners would mine less if they couldn't stockpile ore. You implied that they would login less often as a result and so I think it's fair for me to say that you think that their enjoyment of the game would be mortally affected. Also, I read "minimally affected" as "not bothered." Mining was the only activity I saw you describe as seriously harmed by the change. If I misunderstood then please let me know!
Death Fluffy: I wish that you wouldn't take everything so personally. I'm basically just replying to your relies at this point so we are both responsible for how boring the discussion has become.
I understood you to argue that this change would be harmful, in large part, because miners would mine less if they couldn't stockpile ore. You implied that they would login less often as a result and so I think it's fair for me to say that you think that their enjoyment of the game would be mortally affected. Also, I read "minimally affected" as "not bothered." Mining was the only activity I saw you describe as seriously harmed by the change. If I misunderstood then please let me know!
Ok. Let me try to clarify. When I said I would be 'minimally affected' what I meant was that I am in the habit of cleaning out stations I frequent of both stored goods and excess ships. I have one station in Latos where I stockpile weapons for pvp, and since I favor the Rev C, this comes to less than 1000 cube fully supplied, including ships. I have four stations I disperse ores to when I do mine which usually averages less than 1000 cube per station. So, I'm not one of the players who's been here since alpha who has 50,000 cube of ore scatter all over the place or a ridiculous number of ships and other collections.
I believe this suggestion is harmful in that it may force some players to change the way they play without offering them a positive exchange. I believe that would affect some players, and I listed the groups that came to mind, including the miners, who I thought would be affected. It would definitely affect the way I mine. I'll currently spend one day mining while reading a book, and then the next 3 or 4 months selling off the ores. Depending on the degree of cost- at your 150,000cr. this would likely put my profit margin below what I consider an acceptable threshold and I would likely stop mining. Since as I stated I mine so infrequently this would not be a substantial impact upon me, but it would eliminate an enjoyed activity and I would not be active in the game during those times where I wish to read.
I think the use of 'mortally' is a bit extreme. As if I'm suggesting that all of the miners are going to quit VO and cancel their subs in mass if this is implemented. My only intent in using them as an obvious example is exactly that of a group that would be impacted by this change, along with the other groups I mentioned.
I am personally expecting great things in the final economy, which I hope is a creative and dynamic environment where player activity actually has an impact on the game beyond tanking Consumer Electronics at every station I bother going to. Where players collaborate to create or restrict resources in a given area. I believe that station hold charges and limits will add to the realism of that economy.
I have not at any point disagreed with the idea. Only the timing. I am not currently going to support any suggestion for rush implementation that restricts players that does not also offer them opportunities.
I believe this suggestion is harmful in that it may force some players to change the way they play without offering them a positive exchange. I believe that would affect some players, and I listed the groups that came to mind, including the miners, who I thought would be affected. It would definitely affect the way I mine. I'll currently spend one day mining while reading a book, and then the next 3 or 4 months selling off the ores. Depending on the degree of cost- at your 150,000cr. this would likely put my profit margin below what I consider an acceptable threshold and I would likely stop mining. Since as I stated I mine so infrequently this would not be a substantial impact upon me, but it would eliminate an enjoyed activity and I would not be active in the game during those times where I wish to read.
I think the use of 'mortally' is a bit extreme. As if I'm suggesting that all of the miners are going to quit VO and cancel their subs in mass if this is implemented. My only intent in using them as an obvious example is exactly that of a group that would be impacted by this change, along with the other groups I mentioned.
I am personally expecting great things in the final economy, which I hope is a creative and dynamic environment where player activity actually has an impact on the game beyond tanking Consumer Electronics at every station I bother going to. Where players collaborate to create or restrict resources in a given area. I believe that station hold charges and limits will add to the realism of that economy.
I have not at any point disagreed with the idea. Only the timing. I am not currently going to support any suggestion for rush implementation that restricts players that does not also offer them opportunities.
@Maalik
Timing.
VO needs to attract more players with exciting content and gameplay.
Imposing more restrictions at this time will only disgruntle existing miners/traders.
You need less then 30 players online at any given time?
Timing.
VO needs to attract more players with exciting content and gameplay.
Imposing more restrictions at this time will only disgruntle existing miners/traders.
You need less then 30 players online at any given time?
We have no idea of when the economy redux is coming. Many, myself included, grumbled over ship price increases, but we have collectively accepted that they were just fine. I see this as an easy way to add depth to the game. I see depth as a positive force in player retention.
Aye, fun times bojan. I would really agree about the RP . 100 is just hopeless now.
Anyway, back on topic. The original suggestion was to create a money sink. For the targets you are trying to remove money from punitive storage charges are not a money sink. For folk you are trying to encourage to play punitive storage charges are annoying. Tie dynamic charges into a dynamic economy and it makes sense, as a flat rate thing it makes no sense.
Thats enough from me.
Anyway, back on topic. The original suggestion was to create a money sink. For the targets you are trying to remove money from punitive storage charges are not a money sink. For folk you are trying to encourage to play punitive storage charges are annoying. Tie dynamic charges into a dynamic economy and it makes sense, as a flat rate thing it makes no sense.
Thats enough from me.
This thread has evolved quite beyond the OP ecka, you can't make it go away by ignoring it.