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Man, that weapon sucks. I can't put into words the true suckage that is the charge cannon. In the time it takes to charge to 2500, a standard laser could do double that, as well as provide covering spray for maneuvers. I say let it charge the same time, but do 15000 damage at full charge. That would make it something to be reckoned with, and the weapon of choice for crackshot pilots. No, it's not a sniper gun, as we've been through that. It's a charged energy weapon.
Mmmmmmmm..... I like!
Great, make a weapon that _only_ useful in the ram and takes even less skill than a rocket. See if anyone complains.
Weapons that do significantly more damage per shot than the average weapon does per second have to be handled very carefully.
Weapons that do significantly more damage per shot than the average ship has in hull have to be handled with extreme care or simply not be introduced at all.
Remember, these things can be grouped and a fully charged quad of charge cannons already flattens most ships in the game with one hit. Imagine if a quad of these was doing 60,000 damage. That's a pretty significant hit even for the 'Frigate' in 14. Don't you think that might be a bit unbalancing?
My personal preference is to have its minimum damage ~60 and its maximum damage ~3600. Also, at maximum charge it should have a 30m blast radius.
Personally, I consider this a weapon designed to be used against ships larger than fighters.
Weapons that do significantly more damage per shot than the average weapon does per second have to be handled very carefully.
Weapons that do significantly more damage per shot than the average ship has in hull have to be handled with extreme care or simply not be introduced at all.
Remember, these things can be grouped and a fully charged quad of charge cannons already flattens most ships in the game with one hit. Imagine if a quad of these was doing 60,000 damage. That's a pretty significant hit even for the 'Frigate' in 14. Don't you think that might be a bit unbalancing?
My personal preference is to have its minimum damage ~60 and its maximum damage ~3600. Also, at maximum charge it should have a 30m blast radius.
Personally, I consider this a weapon designed to be used against ships larger than fighters.
I also think that once it's fully charged your battery should start to recharge.
Celebrim, your points are good, except that it seems you fail to take into account the twenty seconds required to reach that capacity. During this time, the mouse button must be held down, therefore precluding the use of any other weapons. For a ship with four charged cannons, this time is substantially (read ridiculously) increased. In twenty seconds, most fights have finished and been filed away in the record books.
Me, I don't fly around with my mouse button held down all the time, because it makes my clicking finger hurt. I suppose that it could be used in a ramming context, but that's a consideration for any weapon with high single-shot damage.
Perhaps by having it hold a full charge for five or ten seconds, then fire and begin charging again, the problem of charge-hoarding could be bypassed.
Personally, I think that until capital ships enter the game as a functional part of the world, weapons and ships that are specifically tuned towards this heretofore nonexistant goal should be retuned.
Me, I don't fly around with my mouse button held down all the time, because it makes my clicking finger hurt. I suppose that it could be used in a ramming context, but that's a consideration for any weapon with high single-shot damage.
Perhaps by having it hold a full charge for five or ten seconds, then fire and begin charging again, the problem of charge-hoarding could be bypassed.
Personally, I think that until capital ships enter the game as a functional part of the world, weapons and ships that are specifically tuned towards this heretofore nonexistant goal should be retuned.
I think the graphics for this weapon should be more like that of Cowboy Bebop. You know the lightning rod cannon thingy on one of the ships? Spike holds down the trigger and the rod holds a charge and then fires a huge bolt of lightning/energy at the enemy. That would kick ass. Maybe the player can be given the option to fire a continuous, but weak, stream of lightning (hold down fire)... or a short, but very strong, burst of lightning bolt (one tap, with 3-5 second delayed shots).
Heh, when Lmines finally bite the dust (and from what I hear, it's only a matter of time 'til they're replaced with something less mean, but more fun), that lightning graphic will have to go somewhere. If it decides to take up residence on the barrel of my charged cannon, it's fine by me.
Okay people, run off and download either Mars Rising or Deimos rising (deimos preferably because it runs on pcs, max os x, and mac os 9)
www.ambrosiasw.com/games
On the first level, charge your cannon.
...
Wait.
...
Wait.
...
Hear the beeping?
...
Wait.
...
Boom.
www.ambrosiasw.com/games
On the first level, charge your cannon.
...
Wait.
...
Wait.
...
Hear the beeping?
...
Wait.
...
Boom.
Hehe, sounds like the Zeuss Class Fusion Pistol from the Marathon series.
*beep* beep *beep* beep *beep* (...louder) >)DIZZZZT!!!(< ::player dies::
*beep* beep *beep* beep *beep* (...louder) >)DIZZZZT!!!(< ::player dies::
Another thing like that is Stargate SG-1.
The naquida generator makes energy (duh), but can be made to overload to have a sudden burst of energy, but you better be sure you want that sudden burst of energy because if you don't release it, well, think nuclear bomb.
what i was implying was that the charged cannon should do the same.
Celebrim, ever try to ram somone with the charged cannon? It's not easy.
The rockets are used not because of there damage (tachyon does double the damage of 2 sunflares in one second), it's because of there detonation range, a tachyon blast can miss by 10m, a rocket doesn't.
Costs of rockets should be uped, cost of rocket launcher should be uped.
The naquida generator makes energy (duh), but can be made to overload to have a sudden burst of energy, but you better be sure you want that sudden burst of energy because if you don't release it, well, think nuclear bomb.
what i was implying was that the charged cannon should do the same.
Celebrim, ever try to ram somone with the charged cannon? It's not easy.
The rockets are used not because of there damage (tachyon does double the damage of 2 sunflares in one second), it's because of there detonation range, a tachyon blast can miss by 10m, a rocket doesn't.
Costs of rockets should be uped, cost of rocket launcher should be uped.
ctishman: Twenty seconds? Where do you get that? My understanding is that only one (or possibly two) full seconds of charging are required to reach the maximum level. The tests I performed today firing at bots seem to indicate that it reaches around the 2400 level (at least) within a second or so.
I spent some time play testing it, if only because its been a month or two since I played around extensively with the charged cannon. Its not _that_ bad of a weapon. It's not nearly as bad as the plasma cannon used to be for instance, and I'm rather be armed with the charge cannon than yellow jackets. It has some characteristics that alternately bother me and intrigue me, and I'm not entirely comfortable stating whether its most unusual characteristics needs to go or stay.
Ok, granted, when I say its not that bad of a weapon, admittedly its not a weapon I'd ever hope to be caught in a fight vs. a human opponent using but there is glimmer of hope.
The most effective use of the weapon is not to charge it at all. If you just fire it repeatedly it goes into gatling mode and its really quite effective, or would be in that mode if it wasn't so slow. No matter how much energy you put into it, it always does at least 400 damage. Quad firing those is 1600 per spread, at a rate of what looks like 8-10 spreads a second at what is a fairly reasonable rate of energy consumption for a quad energy weapon. Really, in that mode, the charged cannon becomes what the phased blaster should be (rather than the useless junk that the phased blaster is). The fact that it actually becomes a mediocre energy weapon at low charge rates is both an endearing and worrisome feature, because I'd be afraid that if we made its charged aspect good enough to be competitive that it would become a versital god weapon if we weren't careful.
On the other hand, there is that horrible speed, which is the weapons saving grace (balance wise).
After some soul searching, I've decided to reverse my 3.2.0 position on the weapon and say that its ok that its minimum damage is more efficient than its damage per point of power expenditure is at higher levels. Instead of treating it like an exploitable bug, I guess we can treat it like a balancing feature.
So, lets keep the minimum about where it is.
But the maximum does need to go up. I'm sticking with 3600 because the thing eats power like candy when charging all four quad mounted, so its not like its going to be all that practical to mount more than two of 'em.
But that's not quite good enough. Because against a human foe, one second without turbo and without firing is a very high price to pay for a hard first strike. You really aren't getting most of the advantages of a hard strike anyway, because you can't manuever between them. Basically, you are just gambling everything on the first shot, and the weapon is just too slow and too easy to avoid.
So in addition to developing a splash radius at higher charging levels (mainly for the coolness factor), I've also decided that the speed of munition should be based on its charge time as well. Basically, 140 m/s should be its minimum speed. That will keep its fast cycle mode weak enough to not worry to much over, but each .1s of charging time should up the speed by 10m/s out to a maximum of 230 m/s or so which will give the weapon the punch it needs to make up for its drawbacks. At 230 m/s the weapon would even be effective back peddling (quite unlike the rocket in most cases). Range should increase accordingly, and in fact range on the weapon should increase all the way around (perhaps a full second longer than at present).
At that point, I'd think you'd have a fairly interesting weapon. Although you'd have to be nearly helpless for a full second, the fact that a dual mount could release a full 7200 points of flaming damage your way at 230 m/s could or should get anyone pause, and the fall back rapid cycle mode means that you aren't completely helpless once the opponent closes.
I spent some time play testing it, if only because its been a month or two since I played around extensively with the charged cannon. Its not _that_ bad of a weapon. It's not nearly as bad as the plasma cannon used to be for instance, and I'm rather be armed with the charge cannon than yellow jackets. It has some characteristics that alternately bother me and intrigue me, and I'm not entirely comfortable stating whether its most unusual characteristics needs to go or stay.
Ok, granted, when I say its not that bad of a weapon, admittedly its not a weapon I'd ever hope to be caught in a fight vs. a human opponent using but there is glimmer of hope.
The most effective use of the weapon is not to charge it at all. If you just fire it repeatedly it goes into gatling mode and its really quite effective, or would be in that mode if it wasn't so slow. No matter how much energy you put into it, it always does at least 400 damage. Quad firing those is 1600 per spread, at a rate of what looks like 8-10 spreads a second at what is a fairly reasonable rate of energy consumption for a quad energy weapon. Really, in that mode, the charged cannon becomes what the phased blaster should be (rather than the useless junk that the phased blaster is). The fact that it actually becomes a mediocre energy weapon at low charge rates is both an endearing and worrisome feature, because I'd be afraid that if we made its charged aspect good enough to be competitive that it would become a versital god weapon if we weren't careful.
On the other hand, there is that horrible speed, which is the weapons saving grace (balance wise).
After some soul searching, I've decided to reverse my 3.2.0 position on the weapon and say that its ok that its minimum damage is more efficient than its damage per point of power expenditure is at higher levels. Instead of treating it like an exploitable bug, I guess we can treat it like a balancing feature.
So, lets keep the minimum about where it is.
But the maximum does need to go up. I'm sticking with 3600 because the thing eats power like candy when charging all four quad mounted, so its not like its going to be all that practical to mount more than two of 'em.
But that's not quite good enough. Because against a human foe, one second without turbo and without firing is a very high price to pay for a hard first strike. You really aren't getting most of the advantages of a hard strike anyway, because you can't manuever between them. Basically, you are just gambling everything on the first shot, and the weapon is just too slow and too easy to avoid.
So in addition to developing a splash radius at higher charging levels (mainly for the coolness factor), I've also decided that the speed of munition should be based on its charge time as well. Basically, 140 m/s should be its minimum speed. That will keep its fast cycle mode weak enough to not worry to much over, but each .1s of charging time should up the speed by 10m/s out to a maximum of 230 m/s or so which will give the weapon the punch it needs to make up for its drawbacks. At 230 m/s the weapon would even be effective back peddling (quite unlike the rocket in most cases). Range should increase accordingly, and in fact range on the weapon should increase all the way around (perhaps a full second longer than at present).
At that point, I'd think you'd have a fairly interesting weapon. Although you'd have to be nearly helpless for a full second, the fact that a dual mount could release a full 7200 points of flaming damage your way at 230 m/s could or should get anyone pause, and the fall back rapid cycle mode means that you aren't completely helpless once the opponent closes.
Actually, I just remeasured a single charged, using a heavy battery, and starting from a full charge. It's just over 13 seconds from the moment I press the mouse button to the point where the gun supposedly "finishes" charging, stops sucking energy and my battery begins to refill. So it seems that I've horribly misinterpreted the purpose and function of the weapon, and those extra 11 seconds exist for the pure and simple purpose of making the gun seem useless? Hmm... Ideas?
ctishman: The gun finishes charging after one second, but the cost of holding the gun charged is the same as the cost of charging it so it will continue to suck energy at the same rate.
It would be interesting to have weapons with lower holding costs than charging costs, but I wouldn't necessarily add that to what is an already complex weapon. I think I discussed a 'heavy railgun' at one point that took less energy to hold charged than it did during the charging cycle, but the difference there is that the 'heavy railgun' had constant damage and the charging was 'all or nothing'.
It would be interesting to have weapons with lower holding costs than charging costs, but I wouldn't necessarily add that to what is an already complex weapon. I think I discussed a 'heavy railgun' at one point that took less energy to hold charged than it did during the charging cycle, but the difference there is that the 'heavy railgun' had constant damage and the charging was 'all or nothing'.
Interesting. Why the 13 second timeout then?
I'm assuming because you run out of power, and the cannon discharges when you no longer feed it power (the same as taking your finger off the trigger).
Actually, I hold the charged shot, but my battery recharges itself. I had quite a bit of fun ambushing people with this in a bus. If use of this weapon catches on, there will be calls for it to be made heavy port, and my voice will be among them.
NO, never make it a heavy port, heavies should never have a high speen energy weapon. Heavies are bombers, they lay mines, shoot missiles, and fire torpedoes. Thats it. Oh, and they run. But no energy weapons, They're not agile enough and weren't ment to have a weapon like that. If your going to change it, keep it small and make it usefull. Not too usefull but just enough so people will be able to use it.
"NO, never make it a heavy port, heavies should never have a high speen [sic] energy weapon."
Some people have the strangest prejudices.
Some people have the strangest prejudices.
"NO, never make it a heavy port, heavies should never have a high speen energy weapon. Heavies are bombers, they lay mines, shoot missiles, and fire torpedoes. Thats it. Oh, and they run. But no energy weapons, They're not agile enough and weren't ment to have a weapon like that. If your going to change it, keep it small and make it usefull. Not too usefull but just enough so people will be able to use it."
What about the adv gat turret? And they are also good for mounting rockets(you need to be just as agile to use those as an energy weapon like the charged cannon) and lets not forget that hogs and atlas' both have heavy slots and are quite agile
What about the adv gat turret? And they are also good for mounting rockets(you need to be just as agile to use those as an energy weapon like the charged cannon) and lets not forget that hogs and atlas' both have heavy slots and are quite agile
The reason the charged cannon isn't very useful is because it's projectiles only travel at 140 m/s and are therefore very easy to dodge. The only thing that would need to be changed in order to make it an effective weapon for fighters would be to increase the speed. I'd enjoy playtesting it at 170 or 180 m/s.
We should remember, though, that some of the weapons might not be intended for fighter dogfights. The charged cannon may be useful for attacking large trade ships or destroyers... as an alternative to rockets which have limited ammo.
Asp
We should remember, though, that some of the weapons might not be intended for fighter dogfights. The charged cannon may be useful for attacking large trade ships or destroyers... as an alternative to rockets which have limited ammo.
Asp