1)
I'm liking the widget idea. Here is a proposition to help get around ninja'ing and the incessant takeover stuff.

Each turret has a unique widget. The widget is valid for X hours.

You destroy a turret and get a widget. That turret will not re-spawn for X hours or until the station is repossessed.

If you can make it to the station dock with all of the turret widgets before one of them has res-pawned, then you have achieved awesomeness and own the station.

2)
It would seem to me that a more realistic version of station conquest would involve the use of cap-ships. It should require some major economic risk and coordinated invasion to take over a station.

3)
Multi-phase conquest, with mandatory waiting periods between phases? As in, once the first phase of the conquest is complete, you cannot attempt phase two until 24 hours have elapsed, and you are ony given a short time window to achieve phase two. This way the station owners can call in sick for work while they defend their station during phase 2.

Until then, more turrets?

It needs to be MUCH tougher to capture.

How about, if someone damages a turret, their key is revoked so they can't dock?

That, copuled with Incarnate's idea of ONLY the person who did the most aggregate damage to the turrets can be the one to capture the station, would prevent the sneaky folks from recapturing the station when it appears that they might lose it.

It should be made to require at least 10 players, so perhaps something like requiring simultaneous destruction of the turrets plus a special cargo of "boarding party" needs to be delivered within 30 seconds of the turret destruction.

Oh, and add NPC defenders - AGT+Flare hogs like the old 'rats. And maybe some swarm rags. A basic amount (2 of each) and if you want more defenders, someone has to pay for them. Although you can have as many defenders as you like if you're willing to pay millions of credits.

I like the widget idea (above), too.

How about if you are inside the station, you can choose to control a turret - just like you can control guns while on a capship. That would be neato.

Oh, and being imprisoned in the station was kinda fun. (I did it on purpose.)

My post in General that just about sums up my position on this, thought I should move it here:

1) Make turret respawn 10 minutes rather than 15, this should make it a bit harder to solo...
2) Turret AI needs to be fixed, as I am sure the devs are aware of. This will also make it a bit harder to solo.
3) 30-60 second period after the final turret is killed where anyone who previously had a key cannot dock.
4) Apply FF restrictions between keyed players and their turrets.

That's my solution... also user keys.

Edit:
Alternative to number 3 would be a five minute period after the last turret is killed where everyone is locked out of the dock. I like the alternative a bit more because it rules out third party dock ninjas a little more effectively, or perhaps a combination of number 3 and its alternate would do that and encourage defenders to actually defend their turrets.

#4 gets rid of the possibility of station defenders killing their own turret but also allows them to fire flares over their turrets right onto the trajectory of a bomber or plant mines around their turrets.

About #1: assuming that the lone bomber is taking out one turret per run and repairing at a station one hop away, 10 minute turret respawn should make that impossible.

I wouldn't want to start a precedent for adding FF restrictions back into the game.

I'm not too happy about it either, Maalik, but there does need to be some mechanic preventing people from killing their own turrets to re-cap the station.

I think we can find another way of dealing with people destroying their own turrets.

Just though of one exploit for #4: station defenders can give a key to a bomber >_< Maal, ya may be right.

Edit: although that could be fixed by having key invites rather than being able to simply force a key onto someone.

Edit2: hmmm, but a five minute lockout might be a bit more affective at getting rid of turret ninjas altogether.

To complicate, three scenarions to discuss about.

Guilds X and Y team up and conquer station. All Xs goes offline. Ys have the key but want a coup and reconquest station without Xs. Should that be allowed?

Same X/Y guilds on same situation. But one Y member is an infiltrated Z guild's member, and give keys to all Z members. Is it desirable?

What about incoming traders/miners/vendors? I need to give them my owner key to allow them replenish station? And then they can give this key to anyone?

And please, no FF restriction. Much better, make turret react with "temp KoS" behaviour to FF.

a) Yes, don't make alliances with enemy factions in the first place. Serves the "X" pilots goddamn right.
b) No, that's why we need user keys and more control over who has keys.
c) Also why we need temporary user key.
d) That, alone, won't fix anything. A five minute lockout period (five minutes and ten seconds for previously keyed players) after the last turret is killed would go a lot further.

I think Alloh's point with (a) is that in order for Ys to retake the station exclusively for themselves, they would have to destroy the turrets again. They wouldn't be able to do this with a FF restriction (and assuming someone in both X and Y guilds have owner keys so that Y can't simply revoke all X keys).

Exact, meridian. Before decide what solution, question should be what community wants about that...

Hmmmm, seems we need an Alloh translator. Anyways, I've dismissed FF idea. My final idea is this:

A two minute period after the last turret is destroyed where everyone is locked out of the station. If possible, add ten seconds to that time period for previous owners of keys.

I have been attacking stations a lot recently and have concluded (with no difficulty) that the ability for "defenders" to kill their own final turret so they can reset the entire event is a major problem. Should the defenders allow their station's defenses to be destroyed it should be made as difficult as possible to regain that station in that turnover period without complete control of the sector.

Also, Chaakin and I both feel that defenses should be buffed to some degree.

What if you just prevented people who currently own keys from hurting their own turrets? Kind of like how faction members supposedly can't kill each other, and so on. So that if a defender tried to pop his own turret, nothing would happen.

I think that is what they mean by FF Derision. Friend Foe.

Am I wrong?

FF = Friendly Fire

Reading another unrelated post, ocurred me one idea:

What if to conquer station someone must "walk in", but from a TURRET, gunner position?

Example, to capture station, you need at least an Atlas or a Moth with 2 players inside, one as gunner, who will act as invasion force.

So, no more lone ninja sneaking neither single player conquest possible...

> To conquest station one must dock a ship with a gunner, and the gunner must leave ship to gain control / create new keys.

RP: While pilot handle station docks, the gunner must sneak in using a space suit, so he can override station's controls.

That would be cool Alloh. Lets take it one step further. The gunner walks into the station and has to play a round of "Mike Tyson's Punch Out". Depending on how long the current station has been occupied, that is how many rounds you must go.
For instance, if the station has changed hands recently, then you only have to square off against "Glass Jaw Joe". But, maybe some guild or group put in a lot of effort to hold the place for a while, so you are forced to work your way through the circuit and beat "Sand Man" or "Super Macho Man". Lets not even talk about Mike Tyson. I still have scars from 1985 when he said he slipped after I knocked him down. I'm not ready.

EDIT: Apparently it was 1987, not 1985.

a) Each turret destroyed drops a widget.

Widget: Turret control core; system/sector x/y, turret z
1 cu
1000kg
timer: 12 min

b) If you attempt to leave the sector with the widget you explode.

c) If the timer expires the widget explodes and the turret respawns.

d) If a player delivers the widget to the station they are allowed to dock.

e) There are station missions:
e1) Rebuild Turret Z (per widget z in play, new turret always sides with current owner)
e2) Reset timer Z (per widget z in play)
e3) Conquer Station (Only available when all widgets are in play, requires possession of all widgets)
e*) All mission require that you undock and redock with the relevant widget(s) in your cargo hold.

f) Notes:
f1) You may access normal station operations while docked.
f2) You may unload the widget in the station. You will not be allowed to redock without another widget or key. The timer will still be running.
f3) You will never be ejected from the station, for any reason.
f4) You may take any mission currently available, even if you do not have the relevant widget(s). The mission will abort if it is completed by someone else or expires.
f5) You may only take one mission at a time.

Edit on edits: Sorry. I was reorganizing my thoughts. I will try to stop changing the outline now.

My intended play: The burden is on the attacker. In a best case scenario, The attacker takes all the widgets quickly, docks, takes a mission, and redocks. In more complicated scenarios, the attacker has trouble taking all the widgets in the limited time frame allowed, and has to rotate widgets through the station one at a time to reset their timers and buy more time. Holding widgets in the station is risky, and takes turrets out of play. Running away with a widget will only buy you 12 min at best. The defenders best option is almost always to dump the widget in the station, or better yet, rebuild the turret. If the attacker can control the dock to the point that they can refresh widgets, and they then space out taking turrets, then they can systematically force a series of battles to be over one turret at a time. Another consideration is that a group of attackers can share a widget(s) to gain repairs at the station, at the risk of having to expose the widgets to the battlefield.

That's kinda interesting TRS. Here is how I would spin it.

a) I like, maybe heavier...
b) I like
c) I like

d) A player docks with all widgets to get a new unique key and kick the old guys out
d1) They are allowed to dock with as many or as few widgets as they have, so long as they have at least one
d2) There are no missions available do the widget holders, it is merely a space of respite while the widget holder's friends are clearing the defenses and taking out the turrets
d3) The widget hold may repair in the station, but may not unload any cargo including widgets
d4) No turrets are rebuilt until their timers reset (and widget blows up)
d5) Anyone, including those with the station key, can pick up the widgets, which allows the defenders to take back the widgets from the attackers and protect it

e) I like

f) This whole process needs to be done twice. The second phase must be carried out exactly 24 hours after phase 1 was completed. And the attackers get 2 hours to complete it.

g) The station owner gets notified somehow that their station was compromised after the first phase, so they can arrange to properly defend in the second attempt.

Note: You would have to employ friendly fire rules on turrets, so that it is impossible to steal your own turret's widget and hide in station with it until the attackers run out of time