For Pirates... how is it dangerous?

Wait: you're complaining because the Dark isn't scary enough for the Bogeymen? Gray is dangerous to anyone who wants to do anything but fly a fast, well armed ship on their own--and do that well.

The notion that nation space protects you even to a small point is a complete joke.

Nation space is becoming increasingly protected. If you think the level too weak, take it up with the Man.

If you're going to compare dark to greyspace and bogeymen to pirates then...

Pirates shouldn't be able to 'exist' outside of grey space at all then. In fact, one step into any nation space should guarantee their swift deaths.

The devs have stated already that they don't want Nation Space to become impossible to get into without dying. Pirates -can- get into Nation Space and kill other players regardless of this 'protection' - I don't think any amount of taking it up with the Man will do anything to change that.

Changing the radar/sensors from what they are now is a 'good' idea and will become neccesary, but not in VOs current state.

After some consideration not displaying ships in "u" that are not on radar hurts both sides equally so that much seems fine so long as the corrosponding lua events are disabled as well. Limiting the zoom function to radar range should also be done as well. NO ONE should be able to detect anyone else outside the radar range in my opinion otherwise abuses will occur.

Playing with the radar range on each ship might also be a consideration. Larger ships tend to carry much more powerfull units then fighters.

ie.
moth 5000m
Tar 3000m
hog 2000m

Stations could list only those that have entered range in the last half hour or so instead of a "live" list.

Social-wise I dont see much of a change other then making a meet up harder. There are a lot of ways to find those who wish to be found.

Incarnate I do disagree with you on one point. The ability to alter the situation by chooseing say an extender over a weapon can make a harsh situation much more acceptable to the players by giving them a choice in the matter. It is in the end the whole of the situation that will be judged.

Myth: your analogy fails because the nation space isn't supposed to be safe, an opposite of Gray. Nation space is increasingly protected as you advance towards its capital sector core, and will become more so as time goes on--but it is not, and was never designed to be, "safe."

Gray, on the other hand, is supposed to be nasty.

@ PaKettle: I severely disagree with the point that view should be restricted to radar view. That would make the verse exceptionally isolated. Being able to see the world around you makes sense anyways. Also, there should be good tricks for spotting prey/predators at a distance that your onboard computer can't spot yet.

@ Dr. Lecter: Your points about making the reaction time of radar alert and fight/flee decisions so much shorter has its merits, but I disagree with you about your method of implementing this feature. I find the idea of limited radar scope for a ship (or even differing scopes for different ships), but not to the extent that you would like. I believe offering stealth (seen on this thread: http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/2489#33872 ) and/or a weapon warm up time/energy management system (seen on this thread: http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/20212#251756 ) would satisfy your goals while creating a much more rounded environment.
I do not mean to start a discussion of those two threads here (which is why I linked), but am rather pointing out that limiting radar is not the only way to make player interaction more exciting/better for the hunted/hunters.

Oooh, varying radar ranges depending on the ship, I like that. Especially coupled with shared group radar. So a couple pirates decide to work together and split the winnings, one in a chaser ship with poor radar, one in a heavier ship with better radar. He acts as the scout, able to find prey more easily, which the chaser can then hunt down. But the traders get smart to it, and target the scout ship, adding another level to gameplay. This intrigues me....

Incarnate, this is an awesome change. Miharu needs to stop posting, as his posts are increasingly devolving into bitter rants. And I support Lecter's opinion 100%, as well as the idea that got thrown in for differing radar strengths for ship type. Whereas a large tradeship might have an extremely weak radar strength, something like the Maurader(a ship without a niche right now) would have pretty good radar strength in exchange for having an enormous cargo hold.

Anything that adds more depth into VO is awesome.

Edit: It might be worth for other players to note that AlertMachine doesn't work off reading the sector list, but instead relies on similar, but entirely separate code to get its data.

Ok I am all for the changes on reducing radar listing which is not a problem at all. Current setup defeats the purpose of having range control and under the existing system you can fairly EASY find ships that's outside of radar range if you have any field work with compass usage.

I am aiming to have intra-sector jumps with multiple "locations" (possibly including stations, etc) within single sectors.

From this I see some rather nasty situations happening. It will introduce ambush and give a HUGE boost to many groups. They sit at a location just out of range of the jump in points or routes to where ever, then they jump into range and instantly on top of you. This would create an unfavorable situation and I would hope things would also be introduced in parallel with this to even the playing field (perhaps another thread for this)

Also I have to say that by removing the out of range ships would make hive missions less laggy I think. Which I am all for.

Another thing. If we have intrasector jump points then perhaps we could have drop points for remote beacons that would relay radar info to us, i.e. jump into a HS sector, 1/2 the bots are out of range. you drop a beacon then move to another uncharted area, drop another beacon, move to the next and drop there. Before to long all things are in radar range and you can pick them off. Could make it so group or friendlies can use this booster as well. radar beacons is not a new technology as it's in use i the field today and super low tech actually.

As for social awareness goes a new 'long range sensor' report could be added I suppose. This would include some very unreliable data that changes from visual perception, i.e. you zoom out and it looks like you see 10 ships, may not be ships but may indeed be roids or cargo but they LOOK like ships.

Unreliable as it's not going to tell you exactly what is there.

One more thing to add. From the backstory/game mechanics standpoint it would also be worthwhile having things like ION STORMS limiting radar ranges in nearby sectors. i.e. storm is in sector F5, the first ring of sectors would have more impact than the 2nd ring would. The stations in the sector could give system jump in reports just like traffic control does when you enter new air space. Thus killing 2 birds with 1 stone, a need and use for ion storms plus the social aspect of things.

I think gray space is too 'safe', anyone outside of radar range should be invisible and you need to be within radar range of the station to see if anyone is docked.

I like a longer radar range with radar occlusion to hide agressors and no sector list.

Increasing player interaction:
* Players may activate a transponder that identifys them anywhere in the sector.
* Change the geography of key wormholes to create choke points. For example a massive moon that blocks exit from one side of the wh.

I presume this is coming after Faction System redux?
Radar leaves a lot to be desired. Itani have the biggest problem since most pirates & griefers are either serco or UIT kos and Itani admired. So they are all green dots on radar for Itani players...

Pierats do luvs them their Valks. (Does this mean that in the future, all pierats will be Itani?)

I hardly see pirates in valks. Mostly hog mk2s, at least those who actually mean to pirate.

Yes the Itani always have it hard don't they? >_>

Unlike your limp one, we sure do Blacklight. :D

Big talk for someone who complains quite a lot -_o considering Itani players have it a little easier than the rest of the factions...

Anyways, I love some of the ideas that have been discussed in this thread, keep up the good discussions.

we're getting off topic guys.

Sarcastic remarks from condescending pricks always make my day.
Sorry for getting off topic.