Well isn't that a bannable offense? You always have criminals...

Modules could take years to balance. Other than that the modularity idea is cool.

Re TD Warthog: if you improve on the current models, you'll end up with an uber ship due to the combo with agt. Today any moderately skilled pilot in a hog III or IV with agt can kill the vast majority of peeps in light fighters.

Sun if you believe that.. well nevermind. But suffice to say you are wrong. I salivate when someone comes after me in an agt hog, because I know he's doomed to be outmaneuvered.

Not to mention the proposal was to improve the TD, not the other models.

I think nobody should ever refrain from posting about his superior manoeuvering skills, because life is short and we should enjoy it to the best that we can. However for the sake of this discussion about part of Cunjo's suggestions, which is to make the TD better than other existing hogs, I'll just repeat that, based on personal experience, it would create an uber agt platform that would be lethal to most light fighters. And I'm not even talking about multi-player battles.

"According to Cunjo, they link up via L-port. "

Ahh, no. I never said anything even remotely like that.

I said that modules that added a single L-port or S-port would be available. Certianly not both in the same module. Modules all have their own coupling mechanism, so you don't need to worry about how they hook together.

To clarify, modules would be able to conatin any ONE of the following: extra engines, an extra port, or extra cargo. You can link together as many modules as you want, but the fract will become unstable and impossible to fly if you link up too many. Extra engine modules cannot solve the turn rate issue. A turret module sounds cool too, but it should be excessively heavy so people don't just slap a turret on the end of every maud train as the final answer.

As for power requirements, for simplicity's sake, we're assuming that all engine modules have an internal battery to provide power to the module. Any extra weapon modules would need to draw power from the main ship battery, thus limiting total energy firepower.

Sure, people could build a rediculously long maud with L-port modules, creating a super spamboat... but the thing would be so heavy and turn so slowly, that any pilot with an ounce of spine could easily get above or below it and blow it to oblivion before the spam hits. It would cost so much to build and equip such a spam train that I don't imagine anyone would be dumb enough to try it twice, and even if they did, well, that's their loss.

Sun:
The suggestion was to alter the TD, not the other varients. Furthermore, there is no "AGT Combo" with the suggested varient, since it would have ONLY the L-port - no S-port means no combo. You;d ahve to be incredibly stupid to put only an AGT on a lighter, toned-down version of the TD with no S-port, because the extra weight would make an enormous difference in handling. The real benefit of the new TD would be that it would fly like a light fighter when weilding a Megaposi, while having the endurance to get into battle quickly and intercept slower craft.

It would NOT be an uber ship. It would be a different one, and actually have a role as a counterpart to the SVG and IBG.

I propose that the TD be reduced in weight, given bigger lungs (reduce the turbo battery drain) and drop the S-port
If you reduce the weight, you're making the agt option even more viable than today. The "enormous difference in handling" is something that one can afford with an "enormous difference in targetting".

No, actually. a reduction in weight is a larger benefit to lighter weapons than heavy ones, and if you reduce the thrust in proportion to the weight, you seriously handicap the AGT. The only reason I didn't suggest nerfing the thrust as a major change is that the TD already has less thrust than the other hogs as it is; it's not likely to need a very serious reduction.

AGT is not an uber-weapon. It does not win fights.

I killed an AGT/gauss hog the other day while flying a Mposi/neut hog, and not just killed - I slaughtered it. The AGT is nothing without accompanying flares, and a lighter, more agile vessel with a fast and precise weapon will beat it in a fight of equal skill, every time.

The reason the AGT is deadly on a hog is that it's used in combo with flares. If a flare hits, it halts the other craft and allows the AGT to score several hits. Dodging AGT is easy if you're in full control of your ship, and outside of 150m or so, the AGT will hit nothing if you know how to dodge.

You remove the flares and make the craft lighter to benefit lighter weapons, the AGT ceases to be an issue.

Nobody should refrain posting about his most memorable wins because life is short and we should enjoy it to the best that we can. I will not dispute the utter ineffectiveness of agt against the Skilled Ones but rather repeat that a lighter hog with agt will take the better on any light fighter assuming both guys are of similar skills. The guy with agt can focus on dodging, and beyond 150m he is equally hard to hit as he does not even have to bother about targeting.

Bojan, believe me, I am not underestimating it. But if those exploits had not happened, a lot of other things would never have come to be. We will not know until things have been tried. You have to break some eggs to make an omelette.

That said, I'm not promoting modular engines. I'm promoting the possibility to add modules to the marauder, *as was intended from the beginning*. Perhaps the goals of the developers have shifted, or changed from that, if so, I think it's still worth a try.

Sun the AGT is a crutch. It is a 2000 kg weapon, with low damage, that will not hit a target which rolls. If you asked me to design the most defenseless ship imaginable, I'd tell you to throw AGT on any ship with no backup. An AGT is literally a flying target, and I don't say this to brag. That is how the game works.

Why are unaligned pirate hogs so deadly? The flares. The AI almost never misses with flares, which eats anyone alive as Cunjo described. Depending on how a single small port ship is implemented, an AGT could 1.5x the weight easily. Try calculating the weight of any existing ships if you add half the ship's empty weight. On a Centaur 3, that is the equivalent of adding 3.5 AGTs. On any rag, 4 AGTs. 2 turrets on an Atlas.

Are you starting to understand how prohibitive the weight of the AGT would be on such a small ship? When was the last time you flew with one? The AGT is the perfect weapon with which to attack a defenseless target, but the worst to go head to head.

I would honestly worry more about this proposed TD as a platform for point-blank hit and run mine attacks. Yes, L-mines are heavier than an AGT, but you don't need to stick around to hit a target with mines like you do with a gun.

Assume a freebus fight for a moment. Make the single port a large one and bring an AGT against a standard freebus/neutron. There is no way for that AGT bus to win, unless the neut pilot isn't at the keys.

Any weapon is a beast when oppo is afk. I'm guessing there will be a lot of afk miners losing their gargantuan Marauder ships to pirates who are tipped off as to the location of a mining train.

For the TD, I suppose that taking away it's small port might be a good idea, but I realized something. It should be the UIT equivalent (in importance and usage rating) of a decent prom to serco. I suggest that it just be buffed again, but not too much, and slightly nerf the other versions just so that there is a little progression. Save the lone L-port for a brand new type of ship, yet to be made.

No, the TD is equivalent to the SVG and IBG, as far as level requirements and use. They are the interceptors, the guys to chase others away. The Proms is a heavy fighter/light bomber (depending on your definition).

At any rate, if moving mines were ever implemented, the suggested TDs could be like the Zeros of WW2 :D Torpedos away!

Yeah, that would be sweet. Bombers! I would suggest some kind of ship specific weapon only Warthogs, and/or TD Hogs could carry.

I can see it now. A squadron of TD's lined up in formation ponding away at a cap ships sheilds in unison, much like spam rags with un-locked missiles, but the difference is, that they are meant to do it that way.

Yes, inalterable loadout configurations have been suggested before as well. I'd prefer those to be reserved as mission awards: When you complete this mission, you may buy x ships (perhaps make this dependent on % of success, to mollify failure? I dislike things too binary) of type y, with weapon(s) z. Once you use up your 'credit', you have to re-take the mission.

If several pilots could link their torpedoes (Swarms) to fire on the leader's command, warthogs would quickly become the ultimate anti-Cap-ship ship. The trick is that Mk II's superior engines would far outdo the WTD in this category. But... I think the armour on the WTD gives it 3 hits against those heavy Gauss guns cappies have, where the Mk II only has 2. Not sure on this. In fact, I'm going to go find out right now.

[Edit] The Cap-ship blasts deal precisely 4000 damage. The Mk II is superior in this regard.

You see Mynt, the TD does need a role.

If you take unbots as fighting reference and cannot hit rolling targets with agt then you do know how this game works. I wish I'd see more of those instructive posts on this forum.

The unbots were an example of how much of a difference flares can make, not an example of how supposedly good or bad AGTs are. I wish I'd see more careful reading before posts on this forum.

Before you flame Sun, make darn sure you know what you're flaming.

Anyway... before you kiddies get eachother's panties in your respective mouths, I'd love to see one of the versions of the Hog, be converted into a bomber.

For Ex: Warthog MkV - Bomber

...that's what the TD *could* be. What, suddenly the bomber variant is different that it has 2 l ports instead of one? >_>;