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I just thought of something, and if its been answered already I'm sorry (I haven't been following the thread), but how will people get the Prospecting Badge if they're Itani/Serco? Is the only way to do all the Itani ones, tank your standing, get Serco standing and do those, and then try to get your Itani back to Respect? I understand this is supposed to be a difficult badge to get but that makes it difficult and time consuming and awful!
By the time the faction changes are implemented, the stupid prospector badge missions will be long gone. I'm sure it'll be implemented with much much cooler things.
Yeah, we'll have to revamp prospecting in-line with these changes. And yes, we will make it much cooler as time goes on, especially with the whole universe redux with the reassignment of ores.
Alright, so it seems illogical that everyone in the universe is tagged with one of three nationalities at any given time. The way I understood, the first time I read through the backstory, was that the UIT was a conglomerate of all sorts of factions, from Valent Robotics to Aeolus Trading Perfectorate. I have a feeling that's wrong, but meh. Basically, there would technically be citizens aboard a Tunguska station, and if pressed what nationality they were would most likely respond with UIT. Likewise, if someone who was born on Divinia became tired of the war and moved off to some station in Grey space, spending the rest of her life there in peaceful trading activities, and never even mentioning her past, would a stranger be able to scan her ship, see that it's the color blue on his radar, and in that moment understand that 30 or 40 years ago she once hailed from a planet in Itani space, and therefor is an Itani, not a UIT?
The point I'm trying to get to is that why aren't the three nations just simply more powerful factions? Why can't someone born in Dau devote himself to the Lady Serco, and, after gaining enough faction with Serco to be considered a decent citizen, rise up in the military to become a cherished war hero? Why couldn't an Itani, then, start a new identity, even get some space agey plastic surgery to change his face, and begin a new life in Dau. And then, why couldn't that same person, being seen as a neutral UIT trader become the Serco war hero? It's not an Itani afterall, just another person. All in all, this game is becoming too racist, methinks. A person is a person, we should all be grey on the sector scan, and the only thing that matters is faction points. This would also mean one could chose one's own starting point in the game. Maybe even in grey? =)
The point I'm trying to get to is that why aren't the three nations just simply more powerful factions? Why can't someone born in Dau devote himself to the Lady Serco, and, after gaining enough faction with Serco to be considered a decent citizen, rise up in the military to become a cherished war hero? Why couldn't an Itani, then, start a new identity, even get some space agey plastic surgery to change his face, and begin a new life in Dau. And then, why couldn't that same person, being seen as a neutral UIT trader become the Serco war hero? It's not an Itani afterall, just another person. All in all, this game is becoming too racist, methinks. A person is a person, we should all be grey on the sector scan, and the only thing that matters is faction points. This would also mean one could chose one's own starting point in the game. Maybe even in grey? =)
There is also blood in the backstory. A ton of it. The Serco as a whole do not trust anyone Itani, and vice-versa. Read it again please. Sure, someone could falsify everything, but this game is not about espionage or defections.
the uit officially became a nation when they left terra ii, wich then became serco prime.
so, yeah. it's a nation per say.
so, yeah. it's a nation per say.
*Sigh*
What if everyone started out as the same nation, except that people that start in Serco territory have a bonus to Serco faction, people that start in Itani territory have a bonus to Itani faction, and people that start in UIT territory have a bonus to UIT faction? Also, having faction with Serco automatically takes away faction from Itani. There. I just said the exact same thing, albeit simplified, and nowhere in either of those two paragraphs was anything related to espionage or defection present. I was talking of genuine switches between factions, not espionage, although I used prosthetics as an example of how this might logically and realistically be done, given that it's like, waaaay in the future.
Alright UC, so then what nation would someone from Valent Robotics be? SuperMegaMynt thinks "Basically, there would technically be citizens aboard a Tunguska station, and if pressed what nationality they were would most likely respond with UIT". Why can't someone in VO choose what faction they wish to be a part of? Why must they fit in the cookie cutter mold of Blue Yellow or Red? If I saw someone in space, how would I know with a glance that he's Blue Yellow or Red anyways? Shouldn't displaying your nations flags be a choice? If all else, I think that given this new faction system change one option should atleast be to flag your ship as unaligned, and not allow people to scan you for licenses, faction, etc. This would be a very real situation. It's the only reason why strangers are scary.
What if everyone started out as the same nation, except that people that start in Serco territory have a bonus to Serco faction, people that start in Itani territory have a bonus to Itani faction, and people that start in UIT territory have a bonus to UIT faction? Also, having faction with Serco automatically takes away faction from Itani. There. I just said the exact same thing, albeit simplified, and nowhere in either of those two paragraphs was anything related to espionage or defection present. I was talking of genuine switches between factions, not espionage, although I used prosthetics as an example of how this might logically and realistically be done, given that it's like, waaaay in the future.
Alright UC, so then what nation would someone from Valent Robotics be? SuperMegaMynt thinks "Basically, there would technically be citizens aboard a Tunguska station, and if pressed what nationality they were would most likely respond with UIT". Why can't someone in VO choose what faction they wish to be a part of? Why must they fit in the cookie cutter mold of Blue Yellow or Red? If I saw someone in space, how would I know with a glance that he's Blue Yellow or Red anyways? Shouldn't displaying your nations flags be a choice? If all else, I think that given this new faction system change one option should atleast be to flag your ship as unaligned, and not allow people to scan you for licenses, faction, etc. This would be a very real situation. It's the only reason why strangers are scary.
Earlier in the thread it was suggested that there will be (eventually) missions to change your faction. Other than that, it should not be possible.
Tunguska is not part of the Union, by the way. Ineubis, Aeolus, and Xang Xi also left. All four are proud of being independent from the UIT. As such, they would not answer 'UIT.' This is in the backstory.
Tunguska is not part of the Union, by the way. Ineubis, Aeolus, and Xang Xi also left. All four are proud of being independent from the UIT. As such, they would not answer 'UIT.' This is in the backstory.
Hrm. I think it's easier for game mechanics if there are well-determined factions which you belong to. Plus it makes an easier ground for conflict (my faction against THAT faction), which, face it, is the POINT of this game.
I'd like to be able to complete a process which would allow you to switch factions, but not all the time. I'd say that for an experienced player, switching factions should take about 20 hours of ingame time, so it's an INVOLVED process that is not undertaken lightly. Plus the conversion process should have the chance of failure, which would put you into the ranks of the "dispossessed" or something, where you can only become a pirate, and you get no benefits of ANY faction except for corvus.
Anyway, I think everyone grows up with a sense of national identity. That's the "default" setting. However, I think it should be possible to change once you've played for a while and can figure out a way to switch allegiances, but it should be difficult.
I'd like to be able to complete a process which would allow you to switch factions, but not all the time. I'd say that for an experienced player, switching factions should take about 20 hours of ingame time, so it's an INVOLVED process that is not undertaken lightly. Plus the conversion process should have the chance of failure, which would put you into the ranks of the "dispossessed" or something, where you can only become a pirate, and you get no benefits of ANY faction except for corvus.
Anyway, I think everyone grows up with a sense of national identity. That's the "default" setting. However, I think it should be possible to change once you've played for a while and can figure out a way to switch allegiances, but it should be difficult.
As a newby I found it really weird to see people who are liket by both, Itani and Serco. I really liked the conecept "Syylk" introduced (first page).
Also I think an Itan-Player should never be liked by Serco. If I want to play a Serco I can create a new character. The same system can applied to other factions (corporations).
Also I think UIT is a special faction. They're no Itani and no Serco. So both shouldn't trust an UIT player easily. It should ne hard for a UIT player to get a very high standing with one of those. Also, if I'm UIT and have a high standing with Serco nation my standing with Itani should fall. If I do business with the Serco all the time, the Itanie spies will notice this...
Also I think the factions, Itani, Serco & UIT should be more different. At the moment there's no real difference in play-style, ships and weapons AFAIK.
Just the opinions of a new player...
tisp
Also I think an Itan-Player should never be liked by Serco. If I want to play a Serco I can create a new character. The same system can applied to other factions (corporations).
Also I think UIT is a special faction. They're no Itani and no Serco. So both shouldn't trust an UIT player easily. It should ne hard for a UIT player to get a very high standing with one of those. Also, if I'm UIT and have a high standing with Serco nation my standing with Itani should fall. If I do business with the Serco all the time, the Itanie spies will notice this...
Also I think the factions, Itani, Serco & UIT should be more different. At the moment there's no real difference in play-style, ships and weapons AFAIK.
Just the opinions of a new player...
tisp
LeberMac: Hrm. I think it's easier for game mechanics if there are well-determined factions which you belong to.
Although sometimes a well-determined system when combined with a not so well-determined system can just make things a mess. Right now there's a gaping chasm in the mechanics of this game because nationalities are fixed from the start, but actual loyalty is not. It'd be nice if any player could eventually become any race, but at the same time Serco should never be allowed to fly Itani ships, and vice-versa. Therefor the only solution to both conditions is if the switch from Itani to whatever it takes to eventually become Serco (As I pointed out, I thought to it should go Itani>UIT>Serco) was permanent and genuine in all respects - including becoming the color red.
The color system fails now because if you're a smurph and you see someone blue, you could very well be looking at you're death. Mecha Touriuas is a Serco who flies Valkeryes and eats up other Serco (NPC's only I think). So hold on... someone who flies Valkeryes in the fight against Serco, and has excellent standing wtih the Itani nation, and terrible standing with the Serco nation... that sounds like an Itani to me, but I guess since he pressed the red button at the beginning of the game, and his name on a sector list is the color red, he's *obviously* Serco. Right?
Although sometimes a well-determined system when combined with a not so well-determined system can just make things a mess. Right now there's a gaping chasm in the mechanics of this game because nationalities are fixed from the start, but actual loyalty is not. It'd be nice if any player could eventually become any race, but at the same time Serco should never be allowed to fly Itani ships, and vice-versa. Therefor the only solution to both conditions is if the switch from Itani to whatever it takes to eventually become Serco (As I pointed out, I thought to it should go Itani>UIT>Serco) was permanent and genuine in all respects - including becoming the color red.
The color system fails now because if you're a smurph and you see someone blue, you could very well be looking at you're death. Mecha Touriuas is a Serco who flies Valkeryes and eats up other Serco (NPC's only I think). So hold on... someone who flies Valkeryes in the fight against Serco, and has excellent standing wtih the Itani nation, and terrible standing with the Serco nation... that sounds like an Itani to me, but I guess since he pressed the red button at the beginning of the game, and his name on a sector list is the color red, he's *obviously* Serco. Right?
In point of fact, Mecha fights both Itani and Serco. He keeps his blue standing high just for the purpose of purchasing the valk, and avoids killing blues in blue space to keep it there. This is why the faction system is said to be broken. He kills Itani all the time, but still has access to their best ship.
Well, Mecha is insane. o_O
I knew it!
--Mogul velaio
--Mogul velaio
As a UIT who's recently been building up both Serco and Itani standing, I would admit to being annoyed if one had to be tanked. The thing is, I'd probably choose to keep Serco, even though Itani is higher.
However, such a limitation does make sense given the story background. A few other random ideas (some may be mutually exclusive).
1) All nations have severe limitations on selling weapons to members of other nations, or alternatively to anyone who is liked by an enemy. A UIT may be respected (or even admired) as a trader by both Serco and Itani, but there's no way either nation would be willing to equip the UIT with weapons in this case.
2) Limitations on where you can set your home station to. There's an annoyance risk here, but it would force people to keep their base in, or close to, their home nation.
3) Cutting off a portion of the universe would be less of a problem if it was larger. Personally, I'm more than happy to play against NPCs and don't have much interest in the PvP aspect, but for a MMORPG (I assume, being a Linux user this is the only one I've ever played), VO is quite sparse of PCs already and I accept that though I'd be happy with a larger, sparser, universe, a lot of people wouldn't.
4) Buying a ship from a nation gives that ship some markings for that nation. If a UIT buys a ship from the Serco, any Itani can see where that UIT has been spending their money. Probably just a PC thing rather than having an affect on NPCs.
5) Unrelated to any changes to the factions, but it'd be nice for more information about a pilot's faction levels were displayed in the HUD when they're targeted, rather than having to go to a different screen. This may be more important if the faction system gets more complex.
6) Fully agree with the idea of surviving witnesses being able to report attacks, and causing a drop in standing. Maybe witnesses who have seen their friends killed can add to a bounty on the attacker's head?
However, such a limitation does make sense given the story background. A few other random ideas (some may be mutually exclusive).
1) All nations have severe limitations on selling weapons to members of other nations, or alternatively to anyone who is liked by an enemy. A UIT may be respected (or even admired) as a trader by both Serco and Itani, but there's no way either nation would be willing to equip the UIT with weapons in this case.
2) Limitations on where you can set your home station to. There's an annoyance risk here, but it would force people to keep their base in, or close to, their home nation.
3) Cutting off a portion of the universe would be less of a problem if it was larger. Personally, I'm more than happy to play against NPCs and don't have much interest in the PvP aspect, but for a MMORPG (I assume, being a Linux user this is the only one I've ever played), VO is quite sparse of PCs already and I accept that though I'd be happy with a larger, sparser, universe, a lot of people wouldn't.
4) Buying a ship from a nation gives that ship some markings for that nation. If a UIT buys a ship from the Serco, any Itani can see where that UIT has been spending their money. Probably just a PC thing rather than having an affect on NPCs.
5) Unrelated to any changes to the factions, but it'd be nice for more information about a pilot's faction levels were displayed in the HUD when they're targeted, rather than having to go to a different screen. This may be more important if the faction system gets more complex.
6) Fully agree with the idea of surviving witnesses being able to report attacks, and causing a drop in standing. Maybe witnesses who have seen their friends killed can add to a bounty on the attacker's head?
seems to be mainly the difference in ships that makes some go for high standings with both serco and itani.
so how about some new ships to even it out,a prom for the itani and a valk for the serco.
anyway,excellent ideas,and feactions need to be clarified as first post says.
so how about some new ships to even it out,a prom for the itani and a valk for the serco.
anyway,excellent ideas,and feactions need to be clarified as first post says.
Faction Inertia:
I would like to see some type of faction inertia added, that can't be easily seen by the players but affects how faction is earned. Something where by the change you are getting from missions, is affected by how much change your character has undergone in the past.
One way to apply this, is to track the negative and positive faction hits you have taken, for the entire career of the character, and apply some form of degradation of effectiveness for earning faction across the board.
E.G. Character Foo has been a pretty good to the Serco, and only lost a total of 200 faction points, while earning 10,000 positive points. He takes a mission that is worth +100, and is awarded like so.
Total Serco faction earned 10,000
Total -Serco faction 200
Mission faction +100
Calculation 100/((200/(10000+200)*100))
Faction Adjustment +98
E.G. 2 Character Bar has been a undecided, switching sides, and earning almost the same positive (10,131) and negative (10,500) faction amounts over his career. He takes the same mission and earns the following.
Total Serco faction earned 10,131
Total -Serco faction 10,500
Mission faction +100
Calculation 100/((10500/(10131+10500)*100))
Faction Adjustment +49
E.G. 3 Character Super Evil Foo has been a very bad boy, killing Serco left and right, and now wants to switch sides, he has almost no positive (231) and buckets of negative (10,000) faction amounts over his career. He takes the same +100 mission and earns the following.
Total Serco faction earned 231
Total -Serco faction 10,000
Mission faction +100
Calculation 100-(10,000/(231+10,000)*100)
Faction Adjustment +2
With this type of set up, switching sides is "possible", but will become increasing difficult the more times it is done.
I would like to see some type of faction inertia added, that can't be easily seen by the players but affects how faction is earned. Something where by the change you are getting from missions, is affected by how much change your character has undergone in the past.
One way to apply this, is to track the negative and positive faction hits you have taken, for the entire career of the character, and apply some form of degradation of effectiveness for earning faction across the board.
E.G. Character Foo has been a pretty good to the Serco, and only lost a total of 200 faction points, while earning 10,000 positive points. He takes a mission that is worth +100, and is awarded like so.
Total Serco faction earned 10,000
Total -Serco faction 200
Mission faction +100
Calculation 100/((200/(10000+200)*100))
Faction Adjustment +98
E.G. 2 Character Bar has been a undecided, switching sides, and earning almost the same positive (10,131) and negative (10,500) faction amounts over his career. He takes the same mission and earns the following.
Total Serco faction earned 10,131
Total -Serco faction 10,500
Mission faction +100
Calculation 100/((10500/(10131+10500)*100))
Faction Adjustment +49
E.G. 3 Character Super Evil Foo has been a very bad boy, killing Serco left and right, and now wants to switch sides, he has almost no positive (231) and buckets of negative (10,000) faction amounts over his career. He takes the same +100 mission and earns the following.
Total Serco faction earned 231
Total -Serco faction 10,000
Mission faction +100
Calculation 100-(10,000/(231+10,000)*100)
Faction Adjustment +2
With this type of set up, switching sides is "possible", but will become increasing difficult the more times it is done.
A really, really good idea, PsyRa. I concur wholeheartedly. Bravo!
What if...
FF protection was left on in capitol systems, and extended to all non-hated players? i.e. Everson can take damage in Itan J-11, but not iry. Alternatively, neither could damage the other in Dau L-10, and only iry would take damage in Sol II H-13. Ecka Estenk would be safe in any capitol system station sector. The scurvy knave pirate ArrrUniverseKOS!1! would not have PvP protection in any station sector.
No one would thus take damage in a friendly capitol system station sector ever: similar to the ion storm blackout in capitol systems (Dau, Arta, Sol II, Pyronis, Eo, Itan, Divinia, for clarification). Additionally, it should never apply to wormhole sector stations (AHEM Arta Gateway).
Wormholes and grey space must remain PvP on.
FF protection was left on in capitol systems, and extended to all non-hated players? i.e. Everson can take damage in Itan J-11, but not iry. Alternatively, neither could damage the other in Dau L-10, and only iry would take damage in Sol II H-13. Ecka Estenk would be safe in any capitol system station sector. The scurvy knave pirate ArrrUniverseKOS!1! would not have PvP protection in any station sector.
No one would thus take damage in a friendly capitol system station sector ever: similar to the ion storm blackout in capitol systems (Dau, Arta, Sol II, Pyronis, Eo, Itan, Divinia, for clarification). Additionally, it should never apply to wormhole sector stations (AHEM Arta Gateway).
Wormholes and grey space must remain PvP on.
As a clarification:
- Would the hated player be able to damage any of the non-hated players?
- Would the non-hated players be able to damage the hated one?
I'd hope the answer to be "no" and "yes" respectively, otherwise I think this suggestion loses some of its potency if/when implemented... also, how would one address losing/gaining faction standing at this point? At the moment, the only two ways to lose standing with a faction are failing (read: aborting) trade guild missions, or killing an admired/POS player in a monitored/guarded sector of a given faction.
- Would the hated player be able to damage any of the non-hated players?
- Would the non-hated players be able to damage the hated one?
I'd hope the answer to be "no" and "yes" respectively, otherwise I think this suggestion loses some of its potency if/when implemented... also, how would one address losing/gaining faction standing at this point? At the moment, the only two ways to lose standing with a faction are failing (read: aborting) trade guild missions, or killing an admired/POS player in a monitored/guarded sector of a given faction.