Well baba, lecter, and tumble, I think that that last statement, as well as all the "manharu" references are violations of #4. Just because Miharu is a female roleplaying character, it is not necessarily a reflection of that player's real-life sexuality. And the question is, why does that upset you so much? I don't see Miharu flirting with you (although it's not as if Vendetta never had such an incident...), or doing anything that harms you, and yet you hound her for it.

(and yes, I choose to go with Miharu's rp rather than worry myself with such niggling issues as the player's real life)

There's also this:
You may not, however, post any material that:

* Attacks or insults others on the board. Feel free to debate the idea, but do not turn your disagreement into an attack upon the poster.
* Engages in name-calling, harassment, or threats. See above.
...
* Disparages any religion, race, nation, gender, or sexual orientation.

And of course, there's the more general violation of #1.

All three of you continually hound Miharu, and especially pick on Miharu's sexuality. In one side of the spectrum, you can come up with nicknames that without context can seem disparaging, but in context are actually indications of friendship. But on the otherside, you can come up with disparaging nicknames that are intended to hurt. "Manharu" being a fairly obvious example.

I'm fairly certain that the player who rp's as Miharu has no questions as to their sexuality, and yet, you somehow can't seem to let it go, and make a point of it at every turn. If it were me, I would definitely feel harassed, and I think Miharu does as well.

So no, Lector, what Miharu posted is not "irrelevant and inapplicable." While it would have helped if Miharu had annotated the post, but don't simply dismiss it because of who posted it.

Leebs said :
I kinda like the idea of not knowing who's in what guild, and removing the mandatory guild listings.

---

I win.

CP... how do you include me in that? I VERY DELIBERATELY left he/she/it's sex completely out of it. (If I KNOW someone's sex is male... I will NOT call him, her. However, as he/she/it is sensitive about it, I chose the path of least resistance, or so I thought.)

And I care not a whit about Miharu's or any other player's sexuality...

I responded to what I see as hypocrisy and then I answered Lecter's question as to why I thought Miharu was posting the R.O.C.
That is all.

EDIT:
Ok, it's not all... Miharu specifically HARASSED ME about my sexuality... in referring to Tumble and my "gay" relationship... repeatedly. So CP AND lenzenm... get your facts straight before slinging the mud.

Baba, by emphasizing a character's "true" gender, you directly undermine that player's ability to roleplay as that character. The way I see it, roleplaying as a character whose gender is different from your own is an integral part of roleplaying. That's not to say I do it, because I really suck at that, but it's what Miharu finds fun about the game. That you can become anyone that you want.

And using "he/she/it" isn't much different from "Manharu." You're still emphasizing the difference between the character Miharu and the player. You obviously do care about Miharu's gender because you choose to emphasize that difference with "he/she/it." If you truly didn't care, then you would refer to Miharu as "her."

And seriously, if it actually matters to you what someone's gender is compared to their RP character, and changes how you act around them, you aren't mature enough (and are too intolerant) to be playing an MMORPG. Enough said. My identity is nobody's business but my own. THAT is where the "defrauding" part comes in.

CP... see the part where I refuse to lie... Miharu the RP character did not post ANYTHING... Miharu the player did. (This is Suggestions, NOT Role Playing.)

Can we get this locked already Whistler?

NINNY!!!

Ok, it's not all... Miharu specifically HARASSED ME about my sexuality... in referring to Tumble and my "gay" relationship... repeatedly. So CP AND lenzenm... get your facts straight before slinging the mud.

Interesting that this came up AFTER I posted a response. Anyway. Since when did I ever talk about your relationship (or non relationship) with Tumble?

Honestly, I don't know about Miharu harassing you about that. Somehow I doubt it, but I was just posting about what I saw in this thread and in other posts on the forum.

And as of my writing this post, I don't see anything about your specifically refusing to lie. I don't recall ever calling your truthfulness into question either. Where did that come from?

Frankly, my belittling of urahiM need not be wrenched out of an in-game context. I couldn't care less who or what the lump of meat with two less than optimized neurons that controls the various alts in its VO account is. More precisely, I'd prefer not to know. However, there's no escaping the fact that ships in VO are controled by RL harmanz: insults meant in an in-game context frequently (for all involved in this thread, from my personal experience) violate the RoC and do so by reference to some aspect of the Lump of Meat at the Keyboard.

Back to (s)he. My beef with said entity is purely confined to VO, though not to that one character, and my attacks are likewise limited. Whether you choose to believe that or not is your problem.

You doubt it...

Ask Miharu (he/she/it might even tell the truth)... ask the 20 other people online at the time... god I wish I saved my logs like others do. (Ask the devs... have them do a search for "Gaylords" in the logs... can't be all that many instances.)

Continue doubting it... but please refer to the post where I refuse to lie.

Since you can't find it:
If I KNOW someone's sex is male... I will NOT call him, her.

And, ROFLMAO Lecter... never noticed that. (I now feel stupid, thank you.)
;)

Whether I doubt it or not is not the issue.

I wrote my post simply based on what I saw here in this thread, and from occasional other threads and ingame stuff, but honestly I don't check that terribly often.

I did not witness the incident between you and miharu, and as such, did not comment on it. I believe that is something you should take up with Miharu, and not with me.

So months of continued harassment and you get off free or with just a slapped wrist and one theoretical incident with me and I have to get punished with all the force available to bear? That's JUST the point everyone's been trying to make about you and tumble, Bidi. You act like you are above the rules, and then when someone treats you like you treat them you go crying to the devs.

Real mature.

Keep in mind that YOU can prove nothing to my identity without breaking my rights to privacy, as even if you had a copy of a conversation where I or someone "told you" something about me, I'd still have to give permission. Especially if I "told you".

Happily... except when you accuse me of something that I am not doing. Have done in the past perhaps, trying not to do now... (Though I have not done some of the things at least that you accuse me of... or lump me in with others in regards to... same difference.)

But every time I think I'm out... they pull me back in again.

I refuse to get involved in these stupid flame wars anymore... please do not involve me, my guild, or even MY CHARACTER (same difference) in this BS and I will keep my commentary to myself.

It's interesting, though, that ye and yers are the self-declared arbiters of "the rules" and when they've been "broken."

Once you've made that determination, free of Dev or Guide hindrance in your classification of another's actions... you feel that you can retaliate in kind without committing the foul that they allegedly did.

Yeeeaaaaah, that makes sense. Don't design any bridges that I may have to drive over, mmmmkay?

And no, privacy isn't a privilege that works that way; at least not in the legal sense. You tell someone something, and absent a privileged relationship giving you the privilege OR a non-disclosure agreement... and WHAZAM! You've forsaken any reasonable expectation of privacy. Funny how you're the one who's held responsible for what you release, eh?

And don't tempt me, Lecter, I AM at an engineering college. The fines I'd have to pay for shoddy work on said bridge would be worth the photos of your broken and bleeding corpse.

First, a woman driving the same model Jag that I have walked away from a 250' cliff dive out in Colorado a couple years back. The most you'd see pictures of would be my damaged car, at trial, when you wound up paying its replacement cost as part of my damages award. Second, it's good to see my point about in-game feuds involving RL insults proven by example. Ta ta.

I do think it is necessary to point out that I didn't name a single name when I quoted the Rules of Conduct, so technically I DID keep you out of it.

And don't tempt me, Lecter, I AM at an engineering college. The fines I'd have to pay for shoddy work on said bridge would be worth the photos of your broken and bleeding corpse.

Second, it's good to see that my point about in-game feuds involving RL insults proven by example.
You're a law student/lawyer. That's enough for any half-intelligent person to want to kill you, right there. Ta ta yourself.

erm... k. Last post.

Wrong Miharu... I am neither your doctor nor your lawyer... anything you tell me I can repeat. (Lecter said it better, as usual... he added the edit as I was writing this post.)

End of last flame war related post.

End of involvement.

KTHXBAI

EDIT: But one question first... you were punished Miharu, and with "all the force available to bear?" By whom?

erm... Two questions... Crying to the devs? You mean when they unmuted me? After you and whoever /vote muted me for doing nothing but saying Tumble's mute was unjust? (BTW I have received certain information from an anonymous (by request) source (a member of your guild), that he disobeyed a direct order from you, as Commander of SSC, to /vote mute me. So don't try your lies about how you were never involved eh.

Good to see you clarify your initial, non-sensical edit there, MightyHairy. Though it still doesn't make much sense. Moreover, lawyers make non-violent life possible for you builder drones. Without those of us who specialize in contract law and IP, ya'll be either SOL or having to defend yer interests by force of arms. And then you'd still have to hire us hands on problem solver types as literal, rather than as figurative, hired guns ;)

(There, happy CP? A purely gender neutral insult).

Bidi: No, I didn't, and you didn't get punished either. That's the point. You guys go off on people and piss us off breaking rules left and right (which people have explained to you, up above) and don't get punished, and when people do it back, it's suddenly okay to cry "foul"?

If it's okay to question MY sexuality (it isn't, in case you're blind and missed the posts about that particular breakage of RoC), why isn't it okay to question the sexuality of those who question mine?

Double-standards. I don't deny breaking any of the rules I listed, in fact I know I went rather overboard in this thread here when I eventually got around to posting in it. What I was doing in this thread was listing rules that had been broken in some form or fashion IN THIS THREAD, not accusing people in particular of them. That was other people.

Er... yeah, after the person in question asked my opinion on the matter, and you didn't have any more than 5 votes with just that person and whoever else had been before it. The only person online that night that is immature enough to get trial accounts and mute people in retribution is tumble, and I think he muted you because he figured you'd leap to the conclusion that someone else did it, instead of thinking logically about it. Either way, NEITHER YOU NOR I can prove who muted YOU, OR tumble. Only the devs can do that, and I doubt their logs go back that far. So frankly, nobody has a case here. The whole /vote mute incident is past, old news, and we're almost certainly never going to see the real "truth" behind it.

LOL... ok. this is positively my last flame war post... for real now.

I notice you ignored the part about your lying repeatedly (in the forums, on record even) about being involved in the /vote mute incident. (Erm... you edited in some more lies... ok, or rather... I'm not sure WHAT you edited in... it read like a lie, but it was sorta the truth... hmmm. You admitted to lying about it... and yet you didn't... very odd.)

And I reiterate... I have never questioned your sexuality... you may be gay, you may be straight, you may be indifferent... why would I even care? First of all, I'm married, the only people's sexuality I care about are mine and my wife's. Secondly, we're on the internet... where all women are men and all children are FBI agents, dontcha know. I got used to that a long time ago. So stop with the sexuality thing... your SEX is not your sexuality (obviously, or sexuality wouldn't even be an ISSUE). I have only ever made reference to your SEX.

The repeated occurrance of which, ingame, qualifies as harassment.

Regardless of it being true or not, it's out of context. Just because you "roleplay" as your real life self ingame doesn't mean that "real life" counts as appropriate context when it isn't YOU that is the subject of the statement.

Way to hijack my thread assholes. As usual, you've managed to completely displace the discussion to something about someone elses behavior, and completely deflected responsibility.

The IRC and any other chat bots have to go, because they allow people to continue THIS bullshit even when they aren't in game. It DOES NOT improve gameplay or make anyone act more mature. In fact the IRC has done more to contribute to and keep going conflicts and bad blood than any other thing in the game. How many times have I made a comment to an in game player that would have been nothing only to have some asswhipe in the IRC chime in with an inane comment and cause a frickin flame war? I'd be happy to comb my logs and count. I have 7 instances JUST from last night. How many times would things have not gotten out of hand if those IRC chatters hadn't been there?

Bottom line, point of the thread: The IRC causes and escalates problems, and doesn't add anything of value to the gameplay. It needs to go.