Forums » Suggestions
Thanks for creating this. I am a 60 something retired guy and I look forward to exploring this new universe. I hope someday/year you will have persistent player objects and crafting (lol not spacecraft of course but creating things). thanks again
Why not spacecraft? I'd like to build my own spaceship, or salvage classic ships from junkyards in the corners of systems, and restore them. Welcome to the 'Verse, though.
Welcome to the game Kapoo.
I'm certainly looking forward to crafting, too. It'll be awesome to tinker with it to make new and better whatchammacallits and thingamabobs.
I'm certainly looking forward to crafting, too. It'll be awesome to tinker with it to make new and better whatchammacallits and thingamabobs.
Why, oh, why is everybody using the word "crafting" crafting is something you use/do when you are into spells, magic, wands, hammering cottages and so on. Please, why not use the the word/s build/construct, it's a spaceage game, futuristic setting, not a grandma sitting and knitting a pair of socks and cooking potions while she's doing it.
"crafting" is the MMORPG term UniX, and does not refer to what is produced.
It works in many situations.
WitchCRAFT
SpaceCRAFT
It spans generations. Besides, why can't I captain a pirate ship and still cast spells? It helps discipline if anyone who attempts mutiny is forced to spend a week as a toad.
WitchCRAFT
SpaceCRAFT
It spans generations. Besides, why can't I captain a pirate ship and still cast spells? It helps discipline if anyone who attempts mutiny is forced to spend a week as a toad.
Lightning Bolt, Lightning Bolt, Lightning Bolt
HandOfGod?
(sorry. You needed to be in IRC for about two hours about three years ago for this joke to be relevant.)
(sorry. You needed to be in IRC for about two hours about three years ago for this joke to be relevant.)
Nope, still not getting it.
I've seen the lightning bolt thing...
We are getting spells? Cool, I have a few good ideas for spells that could be useful:
* Summon wormhole - summon a wormhole going to a system of choice
* Summon storm - summon ion storm to the sector
* Dismiss storm - make the storm in the sector go away
* Cast improbability drive - teleport to anywhere
* Cast Paralysis - EMP knocks out target ship
* Healing - we already have this spell...
* Invisibility - ship becomes invisible
* Protection - ship gains shield that depletes over time
* Charging - battery gets +10 to recharge rate for a short time
* Magic Mapping - a window pops up containing a list of roids in the sector and what they are made of
* Reveal Monster - radar gets 300,000m range for a while
* Poison - sprays corrosive material on the target ship's hull, wearing it down over time
* Reveal target - place a tracker beacon on target ship, which will transmit the coordinates of the ship every 10s for 5min.
* Blind - Fire a very bright flare at target ship, overloading its ability to process visual information for a short period of time
* Summon pet monsters - call a sf from your faction to help you defend from attackers
Erm... I hope everyone realises this post is a joke. Just making sure.
* Summon wormhole - summon a wormhole going to a system of choice
* Summon storm - summon ion storm to the sector
* Dismiss storm - make the storm in the sector go away
* Cast improbability drive - teleport to anywhere
* Cast Paralysis - EMP knocks out target ship
* Healing - we already have this spell...
* Invisibility - ship becomes invisible
* Protection - ship gains shield that depletes over time
* Charging - battery gets +10 to recharge rate for a short time
* Magic Mapping - a window pops up containing a list of roids in the sector and what they are made of
* Reveal Monster - radar gets 300,000m range for a while
* Poison - sprays corrosive material on the target ship's hull, wearing it down over time
* Reveal target - place a tracker beacon on target ship, which will transmit the coordinates of the ship every 10s for 5min.
* Blind - Fire a very bright flare at target ship, overloading its ability to process visual information for a short period of time
* Summon pet monsters - call a sf from your faction to help you defend from attackers
Erm... I hope everyone realises this post is a joke. Just making sure.
rogue: or just watch Kung-Fu Hustle... I think I get HandOfGod, though. The other meaning.
welcome kapoo
yes, when i go to the auto salvage, i too feel as though i am 'crafting'. as i rummage through water-filled trunks, rusted engines that have been dropped by careless scavengers, and rotted carpet filled with unspooled cassette tapes from 1986, i find the piece i need. i bang on the rusted bolts for half an hour, and in a spray of mystery dust, the piece comes free. i lug it back to the checkout counter in the hot sun, balancing my thirty pound toolbox on my now exhausted arm, and forget i needed to write the id number of the carcass i picked over.
eventually i part with 20 dollars, load the filthy pieces into my own car, and drive off. exhausted i collapse on the couch, and wait until the next day to actually put them on.
realizing there was one piece i forgot, i head to the auto parts store, buying it for some ungodly overpriced amount. finding it doesnt fit, and having to return it. then scouring the internet for 4 hours, i find another source, and with '2 day shipping' (which brings shipping to 25 dollars instead of 15) i have my part in 9 actual days, because it took them 5 days to find it, then there was the holiday, etc etc etc.
then of course there is the foofaddle adaptor. i call every salvage in town, and none of them have it. another 5 hours on the internet, and i have the 80 pound piece shipped to me in a week or so. im sure the delivery driver loved loading that monstrosity onto his truck and then unloading it at the end of a 10 hour shift.
oh yeah. 'crafting'.
tons of fun.
why dont they make a game out of that!
@#$@#$
eventually i part with 20 dollars, load the filthy pieces into my own car, and drive off. exhausted i collapse on the couch, and wait until the next day to actually put them on.
realizing there was one piece i forgot, i head to the auto parts store, buying it for some ungodly overpriced amount. finding it doesnt fit, and having to return it. then scouring the internet for 4 hours, i find another source, and with '2 day shipping' (which brings shipping to 25 dollars instead of 15) i have my part in 9 actual days, because it took them 5 days to find it, then there was the holiday, etc etc etc.
then of course there is the foofaddle adaptor. i call every salvage in town, and none of them have it. another 5 hours on the internet, and i have the 80 pound piece shipped to me in a week or so. im sure the delivery driver loved loading that monstrosity onto his truck and then unloading it at the end of a 10 hour shift.
oh yeah. 'crafting'.
tons of fun.
why dont they make a game out of that!
@#$@#$
You know when you put it that way...
Lets introduce magic instead!!!
Well if it makes you happy. You won't have to craft anything. :P
Lets introduce magic instead!!!
Well if it makes you happy. You won't have to craft anything. :P
Err...
How about mining an anstroid for ores, then melting down the ores to make alloys that are molded into parts, then assembled into components that can be put together to form ... whatever.
Not all item creation in all games involve trash, yaknow!
As for the word "crafting" it simply means "Creating items from ingame resources" in the MMORPG context. Nothing more, nothing less.
Devs, whatever you do about crafting, please don't make it an unlimited and pointless clickfest like in Anarchy Online...
How about mining an anstroid for ores, then melting down the ores to make alloys that are molded into parts, then assembled into components that can be put together to form ... whatever.
Not all item creation in all games involve trash, yaknow!
As for the word "crafting" it simply means "Creating items from ingame resources" in the MMORPG context. Nothing more, nothing less.
Devs, whatever you do about crafting, please don't make it an unlimited and pointless clickfest like in Anarchy Online...
the stupid part about 'crafting' in most games is that it is based on a freakish jeffersonian vision of the world , part socialist (controlled, centralized economy, no democracy), and part individualist (everyone owns their own 'stuff', pull yourself up by your bootstraps, make your own everything).
back in real life, where grown up people live, jefferson was just another rich guy who !@#$# his slaves. almost every product is made by a group of people who have to invest capital and labor into an industrial process that takes advantage of economies of scale, specialization of labor, and a marketplace.
in games you have specialization and a marketplace. but the specialization is merely due to artificial rules created by the socialist government (like in WoW, engineers cant make stuff that hunters make). its like everyone belongs to the labor union, but one that is owned and run by management.
the marketplace is further limited by the government, certain items cannot be bought or sold. of course, that can be good - its called the abolishment of slavery.
on the other hand, 'crafting' is just... weird. especially in a techno futuristic game.
"but wait" you say, in the future magic replicator devices will make everyone a producer, not just a consumer! wrong. we already have magic replicator devices... its called a computer. it can replicate software over and over, for fractions of a penny going to energy and the fan bearing wearing out on your power supply and not much else.
that doesnt mean everyone magically has become a software producer. in fact, very few become software producers. more than in the past, perhaps, because the capital cost is rather low (got time? got a decent net connection? hello linux). but still, 99% of the people you meet on the street dont know a parenthesis from a square bracket.
things are complicated to make, we still need specialized labor, and the industrial process that allows all of this specialized labor to be integrated somehow to acheive a final product. whether that process is organized by a corporation for profit, by a government to kill people or plant flowers, or by a bunch of volunteers to do whatever, or some mix, it is still a process.
but in games, it is still as though we lived in that 1800s vision of the 'frontier', a man out alone making his way in the world (nevermind the slaves, indians, his wife, the marketplace he was linked to to sell his wares, buy resupplys, etc).
the only people who individually create things are artists.. and then again, most artists collaborate with others, if not to create their work, then at least to market it, to organize showings, concerts, etc.
but nah. in the video game world, 'here i made a ultra rare widget, while i was sitting by a tree. 3 gold, msg me'. 'wowz0rs i customized my whatsit so now its like, ultra radical, 20% more pootrons'.
and the irony is that in games, you can't make art! why not? because someone would create a giant penis, which would offend a bunch of people, and create headaches for the socialist government of the game (aka management).
in real life you can 'craft' an automobile. you provide the producer with 'money' and the will give you 'options', like extra cooling lines to your transmission for hauling trailers, 6 cylinder engine instead of 4, moon roof, tilt steering, etc.
then again, i guess you can 'mod' your car. you can buy a chip 'upgrade' for your car to change the engine timing etc. which will make it wear out faster or whatever but who cares, you 'modded' it and you are hot s@#$. or you could buy a body kit, fake blower, pin stripes, idiotic accessories for your air filter, and become a 'ricer'. then you can start buying oil additives, cooling system 'cleaners', etc, to try to compensate for your buldging gut and bald spot. you have graduated from 'racer' to 'middle age money waster'.
now i know theres some very small number of people who actually make modifications that are useful and/or actually finished instead of rusting in the back yard for 15 years. but they often work in groups and/or rely on the specialized products of other groups of people.
but nowhere, and i mean almost nowhere, do you go to a producer, give them the raw materials, and say 'yeah... so can you make something for me out of this?' try it! go to your honda dealer, give them 5000 pounds of scrap steel, ask them for a car. go to the computer store, hand them some old parts. go to your mechanic with an alternator you bought, most will not even install that.
anyways what im trying to say, is that i'm a grumpy old man, video games are for young ignorant whipper snappers, and crafting is stupid and silly.
unless of course its fun. but i dont find a deluded notion of 'independence' to be all that 'fun'. but then again, who am i to say what is fun?
some people dress up like frogs and fall in love online, like in second life. whatever.
back in real life, where grown up people live, jefferson was just another rich guy who !@#$# his slaves. almost every product is made by a group of people who have to invest capital and labor into an industrial process that takes advantage of economies of scale, specialization of labor, and a marketplace.
in games you have specialization and a marketplace. but the specialization is merely due to artificial rules created by the socialist government (like in WoW, engineers cant make stuff that hunters make). its like everyone belongs to the labor union, but one that is owned and run by management.
the marketplace is further limited by the government, certain items cannot be bought or sold. of course, that can be good - its called the abolishment of slavery.
on the other hand, 'crafting' is just... weird. especially in a techno futuristic game.
"but wait" you say, in the future magic replicator devices will make everyone a producer, not just a consumer! wrong. we already have magic replicator devices... its called a computer. it can replicate software over and over, for fractions of a penny going to energy and the fan bearing wearing out on your power supply and not much else.
that doesnt mean everyone magically has become a software producer. in fact, very few become software producers. more than in the past, perhaps, because the capital cost is rather low (got time? got a decent net connection? hello linux). but still, 99% of the people you meet on the street dont know a parenthesis from a square bracket.
things are complicated to make, we still need specialized labor, and the industrial process that allows all of this specialized labor to be integrated somehow to acheive a final product. whether that process is organized by a corporation for profit, by a government to kill people or plant flowers, or by a bunch of volunteers to do whatever, or some mix, it is still a process.
but in games, it is still as though we lived in that 1800s vision of the 'frontier', a man out alone making his way in the world (nevermind the slaves, indians, his wife, the marketplace he was linked to to sell his wares, buy resupplys, etc).
the only people who individually create things are artists.. and then again, most artists collaborate with others, if not to create their work, then at least to market it, to organize showings, concerts, etc.
but nah. in the video game world, 'here i made a ultra rare widget, while i was sitting by a tree. 3 gold, msg me'. 'wowz0rs i customized my whatsit so now its like, ultra radical, 20% more pootrons'.
and the irony is that in games, you can't make art! why not? because someone would create a giant penis, which would offend a bunch of people, and create headaches for the socialist government of the game (aka management).
in real life you can 'craft' an automobile. you provide the producer with 'money' and the will give you 'options', like extra cooling lines to your transmission for hauling trailers, 6 cylinder engine instead of 4, moon roof, tilt steering, etc.
then again, i guess you can 'mod' your car. you can buy a chip 'upgrade' for your car to change the engine timing etc. which will make it wear out faster or whatever but who cares, you 'modded' it and you are hot s@#$. or you could buy a body kit, fake blower, pin stripes, idiotic accessories for your air filter, and become a 'ricer'. then you can start buying oil additives, cooling system 'cleaners', etc, to try to compensate for your buldging gut and bald spot. you have graduated from 'racer' to 'middle age money waster'.
now i know theres some very small number of people who actually make modifications that are useful and/or actually finished instead of rusting in the back yard for 15 years. but they often work in groups and/or rely on the specialized products of other groups of people.
but nowhere, and i mean almost nowhere, do you go to a producer, give them the raw materials, and say 'yeah... so can you make something for me out of this?' try it! go to your honda dealer, give them 5000 pounds of scrap steel, ask them for a car. go to the computer store, hand them some old parts. go to your mechanic with an alternator you bought, most will not even install that.
anyways what im trying to say, is that i'm a grumpy old man, video games are for young ignorant whipper snappers, and crafting is stupid and silly.
unless of course its fun. but i dont find a deluded notion of 'independence' to be all that 'fun'. but then again, who am i to say what is fun?
some people dress up like frogs and fall in love online, like in second life. whatever.
Interesting rant, ananzi. I think I got what you're saying, and I think I mostly agree with you.
The raw materials part should be on the station level, with whatever station owner having the responsibility to keep his station supplied with not only the materials/resources to operate, but the raw materials needed to produce parts for whatever. For the most part, the specialized labor will happen behind the scenes, the "workers" at your station doing the work.
What we need is a detailed tech tree. Most casual players won't need to know the tech tree (I don't need to know what goes into making my car, I just choose the options I like and buy the damn thing), but those who own the stations that make the parts or who are just interested can access the tech tree and see the stuff.
Here's how the tech tree would apply. When building your station, you pay to have an assembly line built. Depending on the size and quality of the assembly line, it would be able to produce a certain range of items of a certain size or type, and you choose which assembly line you want based on what you want to sell. Say to build an engine requires three small parts and two big parts (no point not being generic). Small parts B and C are in high demand, so you build an assembly line that builds small parts. The assembly line you build can make five different parts at a time, so you configure it to build engine parts B and C and three other parts. Later, part C is no longer profitable, so you pay some to reconfigure your assembly line to build something else. As long as you have the materials, you can build these parts. Another station has an assembly line that puts together finished ship parts, and is configured for engines. They buy parts B and C from the previous station and the others from another station and build the engine. From there they can sell the engine directly to players, or to a station that puts together finished ships.
So, you're right, the kind of crafting where you drop off a ton of metal and get back a shiny new ship isn't for every player, but for those who run factories (like in real life). The casual player's "crafting" is just what you said, buy a six cylinder instead of four, upgraded brakes, etc. Players control what is crafted at the station level, however, by controlling demand.
The hard part about crafting is implementing the concept of "invention." The only thing I can think of so far is the suggestion forums, and if an item is approved, devs or whatever decide exactly what properties it will have in game and where it fits in the tech tree, and a certain string of missions to "develop," and "test" a prototype would have to happen before the item is introduced into the game.
The raw materials part should be on the station level, with whatever station owner having the responsibility to keep his station supplied with not only the materials/resources to operate, but the raw materials needed to produce parts for whatever. For the most part, the specialized labor will happen behind the scenes, the "workers" at your station doing the work.
What we need is a detailed tech tree. Most casual players won't need to know the tech tree (I don't need to know what goes into making my car, I just choose the options I like and buy the damn thing), but those who own the stations that make the parts or who are just interested can access the tech tree and see the stuff.
Here's how the tech tree would apply. When building your station, you pay to have an assembly line built. Depending on the size and quality of the assembly line, it would be able to produce a certain range of items of a certain size or type, and you choose which assembly line you want based on what you want to sell. Say to build an engine requires three small parts and two big parts (no point not being generic). Small parts B and C are in high demand, so you build an assembly line that builds small parts. The assembly line you build can make five different parts at a time, so you configure it to build engine parts B and C and three other parts. Later, part C is no longer profitable, so you pay some to reconfigure your assembly line to build something else. As long as you have the materials, you can build these parts. Another station has an assembly line that puts together finished ship parts, and is configured for engines. They buy parts B and C from the previous station and the others from another station and build the engine. From there they can sell the engine directly to players, or to a station that puts together finished ships.
So, you're right, the kind of crafting where you drop off a ton of metal and get back a shiny new ship isn't for every player, but for those who run factories (like in real life). The casual player's "crafting" is just what you said, buy a six cylinder instead of four, upgraded brakes, etc. Players control what is crafted at the station level, however, by controlling demand.
The hard part about crafting is implementing the concept of "invention." The only thing I can think of so far is the suggestion forums, and if an item is approved, devs or whatever decide exactly what properties it will have in game and where it fits in the tech tree, and a certain string of missions to "develop," and "test" a prototype would have to happen before the item is introduced into the game.
The problem with owning a factory is that it requires a shit load of time and talent to run. Why do you thing a PDG is paid so much?
Also I really don't see how you can introduce crafting into VO. Stations with assembly lines and all that make me a bit dizzy. Though a massive addtion of content would be interesting...
Actually playing a hybrid sim city like thingy wouldn't be too bad. If you could set your station to build stuff. But most games don't seem to accept that players don't want to sit in front of their computers and pres the same button over and over and over and over... really WHO WOULDN'T WANT THAT!
I would never threaten leaving a game if something was implemented or not. But the reason why I stayed with VO was the promise of dynamic economy. Which is directly linked to crafting right?
Also to point out to ananzi. Yes in real life we don't get to all craft. But in real life we aren't all fighter pilots either. I am sure that crafting will never be made mandatory. What is great about VO is that we don't have magically appearing stuff right now. (i.e. like in WoW where you kill a bear and find an uber staff).
Now we need to get rid of the magically appearing credits. The Nations, as well as corporations CREDITS should be somehow directly tied into their sales, and possessions. A bit like it used to be in the real world i.e. the amount of $ a country had depended on their gold ressources. In Vo it could be related directly to the value of all the stuff the Nation/Corporation has. SO say Itan is worth 150 billions then that's all the cash that would be floating there. If players work real hard and bring back tons of ressources and CtC, then say the worth will climb to 155billions. You know a bit like a real economy.
Also all this is useless and pointless as long as you have unlimited ressources. Asteroids should wear out and be slowly replaced. And hive bots should also wear em out, so hive destruction would be very important.
Yes it's hard to implement, I don't care I can wait. But I hope something similar enoughh is implemented. I want at least ONE game with true economy inside. SO many promise it and never do it.
Also I really don't see how you can introduce crafting into VO. Stations with assembly lines and all that make me a bit dizzy. Though a massive addtion of content would be interesting...
Actually playing a hybrid sim city like thingy wouldn't be too bad. If you could set your station to build stuff. But most games don't seem to accept that players don't want to sit in front of their computers and pres the same button over and over and over and over... really WHO WOULDN'T WANT THAT!
I would never threaten leaving a game if something was implemented or not. But the reason why I stayed with VO was the promise of dynamic economy. Which is directly linked to crafting right?
Also to point out to ananzi. Yes in real life we don't get to all craft. But in real life we aren't all fighter pilots either. I am sure that crafting will never be made mandatory. What is great about VO is that we don't have magically appearing stuff right now. (i.e. like in WoW where you kill a bear and find an uber staff).
Now we need to get rid of the magically appearing credits. The Nations, as well as corporations CREDITS should be somehow directly tied into their sales, and possessions. A bit like it used to be in the real world i.e. the amount of $ a country had depended on their gold ressources. In Vo it could be related directly to the value of all the stuff the Nation/Corporation has. SO say Itan is worth 150 billions then that's all the cash that would be floating there. If players work real hard and bring back tons of ressources and CtC, then say the worth will climb to 155billions. You know a bit like a real economy.
Also all this is useless and pointless as long as you have unlimited ressources. Asteroids should wear out and be slowly replaced. And hive bots should also wear em out, so hive destruction would be very important.
Yes it's hard to implement, I don't care I can wait. But I hope something similar enoughh is implemented. I want at least ONE game with true economy inside. SO many promise it and never do it.
I agree with your economy comment. It would be nice if the economy were tied to REAL resources, exactly as you say. Because it's a game, they'd have to start equally. I imagine that on that scale it would be cool if this game were like Civilization, where you find good spots to build cities (stations) where there are good resources.
As for the stations and factories, it would be a lot like SimCity. It would not require constant micromanaging if a good UI for it were in place. Of course, what you get out of it would be what you put in to it. I also don't think you should have to be in the station to run the station. You could access the UI remotely, or at least part of it. You could be out shooting up pirates or on your way to attack an enemy station, and quickly check your station's stats on your PDA, and if necessary issue the orders that convert your assembly line to build something else, and pay the workers the appropriate fee. Until there are enough players, there would still have to be AI stations to fill niches.
Anyone would have the option to do any level of crafting. The casual player picks and chooses exactly what goes on their ship from what's available, unless they just want a preset. Or, if they want to own a station, they can either be part of a guild that does stations, or do the work necessary to buy/build/capture your own station. Options for everyone.
As for the stations and factories, it would be a lot like SimCity. It would not require constant micromanaging if a good UI for it were in place. Of course, what you get out of it would be what you put in to it. I also don't think you should have to be in the station to run the station. You could access the UI remotely, or at least part of it. You could be out shooting up pirates or on your way to attack an enemy station, and quickly check your station's stats on your PDA, and if necessary issue the orders that convert your assembly line to build something else, and pay the workers the appropriate fee. Until there are enough players, there would still have to be AI stations to fill niches.
Anyone would have the option to do any level of crafting. The casual player picks and chooses exactly what goes on their ship from what's available, unless they just want a preset. Or, if they want to own a station, they can either be part of a guild that does stations, or do the work necessary to buy/build/capture your own station. Options for everyone.