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Hmmm. My raptor/SCP/hive posis post is gone, wonder why?
Nice to see it partly lived thru this thread.
I fought Firsms hive posis SCP in my IDF valk. He was able to land continous posis hits on me at 200-300m distance and my valk is not an easy target /I hope Shape & Gavan can atest to that/.
Firsm is a really nice guy and that fight was just a test. As he admitted himself - SCP/hive posis combo doesnt require any special piloting skills, just backroll, keep your oponent at 200-300m distance and spray hive posis. They hit like 70% of the time and fight is over quickly.
Kix you should try your energy spam/magnification bind against Firsms posis SCP and then comment on autoaim. Sure you can spam and hit SCP a lot but he will boom you and leave with his health bar at 50% or more. Its 21k armor, remember?
Nice to see it partly lived thru this thread.
I fought Firsms hive posis SCP in my IDF valk. He was able to land continous posis hits on me at 200-300m distance and my valk is not an easy target /I hope Shape & Gavan can atest to that/.
Firsm is a really nice guy and that fight was just a test. As he admitted himself - SCP/hive posis combo doesnt require any special piloting skills, just backroll, keep your oponent at 200-300m distance and spray hive posis. They hit like 70% of the time and fight is over quickly.
Kix you should try your energy spam/magnification bind against Firsms posis SCP and then comment on autoaim. Sure you can spam and hit SCP a lot but he will boom you and leave with his health bar at 50% or more. Its 21k armor, remember?
Bojan.
Whether or not I can take down an SCP has nothing to do with a weapons balance.
The SCP is a big Rev C and the weight of a weapon just doesn't matter when your equping it.
You know this.......?
Why compare using the SCP?
Whether or not I can take down an SCP has nothing to do with a weapons balance.
The SCP is a big Rev C and the weight of a weapon just doesn't matter when your equping it.
You know this.......?
Why compare using the SCP?
Hey inc, here's an idea...
Implement some kind of weapon turreting module as has been discussed in some of the capitol ship suggestion threads. Basically one that takes a non-turreted heavy weapon, or two non-turreted light weapons, and transforms them into turrets. Obviously, while a player could recover the turreting module and the weapons, they could only mount the weapons unless they had a capitol ship or trident.
Implement some kind of weapon turreting module as has been discussed in some of the capitol ship suggestion threads. Basically one that takes a non-turreted heavy weapon, or two non-turreted light weapons, and transforms them into turrets. Obviously, while a player could recover the turreting module and the weapons, they could only mount the weapons unless they had a capitol ship or trident.
Kix.......it was about autoaim/no autoaim thing, nothing more.:)
Bojan,
There's this thing called Mass.
It determines the reaction speed of your ship.
The response time does indeed matter..
Try hitting someone with energy in a loaded rag, and now try it in a Rev.
SCP = Decent reaction time/Handles like big Rev
There's this thing called Mass.
It determines the reaction speed of your ship.
The response time does indeed matter..
Try hitting someone with energy in a loaded rag, and now try it in a Rev.
SCP = Decent reaction time/Handles like big Rev
the hive posies are good, but i don't think they are overpowered. i'd be inclined to suspect that the SCP itself is the overpowered poertion of the hiveposie scp, after all we had basicly the same discussion with regards to the gat-turret.
as it is i think the hive posie is the only weapon that makes the raptor a feasable combat ship (the autoaim, compensates for the wide weapon spread). and i don't see it as being any more broken when used on a hornet than adv rails.
as it is i think the hive posie is the only weapon that makes the raptor a feasable combat ship (the autoaim, compensates for the wide weapon spread). and i don't see it as being any more broken when used on a hornet than adv rails.
Advanced rails are broken?
News to me.
As far as making the Raptor useful? well, that would just kinda proves that they're too good, since the Raptor is a useless younger brother of the Vulture and the IBG and Rev C centurions.
I disagree with Kix on the usefullness of the autoaim here.
If you want to try to spam at my vulture for a few hours at 300m, you're welcome to. But I don't think that that's an ideal outcome.
Not to mention that in a multi fight, they are a more-or-less guaranteed win.
Can we just drop the autoaim to gauss? and maybe make em a lil slower than their AAP counterparts?
News to me.
As far as making the Raptor useful? well, that would just kinda proves that they're too good, since the Raptor is a useless younger brother of the Vulture and the IBG and Rev C centurions.
I disagree with Kix on the usefullness of the autoaim here.
If you want to try to spam at my vulture for a few hours at 300m, you're welcome to. But I don't think that that's an ideal outcome.
Not to mention that in a multi fight, they are a more-or-less guaranteed win.
Can we just drop the autoaim to gauss? and maybe make em a lil slower than their AAP counterparts?
Shape,
I'm not sure how you plan on flying a vulture with a 300m buffer between you and my Rev but your more than welcome to try.
And I can't believe you think auto aim is more accurate than AA off.
I'm sure I've missed something here.
Are we talking about the Posis that weigh 2000kg?
[edit]
1500... close enough
[/edit]
I'm not sure how you plan on flying a vulture with a 300m buffer between you and my Rev but your more than welcome to try.
And I can't believe you think auto aim is more accurate than AA off.
I'm sure I've missed something here.
Are we talking about the Posis that weigh 2000kg?
[edit]
1500... close enough
[/edit]
actualy i was using 4 advaned rails on a hornet as an example of a loadout that was powerfull, but clearly not unbalanced.
anyway the hive posies don't make the raptor that good in PVP just usable, and the reason for that is they compensate for the most cripaling weekness of the raptor.
i used twin hive posies on a raptor twice against a vult mk3 (i think) and lost both times, but managed to do a fair amount of damage. the raptor performed far better than it has with any other load that i've tried but not so much so that i'd call it a high end PVP ship.
so unless there is some ship other than the SCP that is "unbalanced" while carying them i don't see any need to nerf the hive posies. and evin if they are to be nerfed, a slight cut to the auto-aim cone should be plenty.
anyway the hive posies don't make the raptor that good in PVP just usable, and the reason for that is they compensate for the most cripaling weekness of the raptor.
i used twin hive posies on a raptor twice against a vult mk3 (i think) and lost both times, but managed to do a fair amount of damage. the raptor performed far better than it has with any other load that i've tried but not so much so that i'd call it a high end PVP ship.
so unless there is some ship other than the SCP that is "unbalanced" while carying them i don't see any need to nerf the hive posies. and evin if they are to be nerfed, a slight cut to the auto-aim cone should be plenty.
Autoaim isn't more accurate than AA off, but when you don't need to maneuver for a shot, it allows infinitely more dodging opportunities.
My point re: 300m is that unless you're prepared to fight at less than that distance (in which case the hive posis are quite powerful for the reasons stated above) then we're just going to be sitting at that distance spamming.
Lord Q:
Advanced Rails are an entirely different kind of weapon. Flying 2 of them on a vulture is doable, but the problem is ammo, not weight.
The hornet with adv rails has issues, cuz its heavy to begin with, and you really need 4 adv rails to make it work (that or 2 rails and 2 flares, which is similarly heavy)
3000 kg is not really crippling, at least not until you get down to very close range. At which range the Hive Posis will be doing FAR more damage.
My point re: 300m is that unless you're prepared to fight at less than that distance (in which case the hive posis are quite powerful for the reasons stated above) then we're just going to be sitting at that distance spamming.
Lord Q:
Advanced Rails are an entirely different kind of weapon. Flying 2 of them on a vulture is doable, but the problem is ammo, not weight.
The hornet with adv rails has issues, cuz its heavy to begin with, and you really need 4 adv rails to make it work (that or 2 rails and 2 flares, which is similarly heavy)
3000 kg is not really crippling, at least not until you get down to very close range. At which range the Hive Posis will be doing FAR more damage.
*ahem*
My point is not that Hive Posi should be left alone (their auto-aim is rather unbalancing), but that once this problem is fixed the Hive posi will be inferior to the other posis in every fasion. The game needs not only balance, but veriety. How about making the Hive Posi doing something different than the Mk1 or the AAP? (low drain, faster shots, or something).
My point is not that Hive Posi should be left alone (their auto-aim is rather unbalancing), but that once this problem is fixed the Hive posi will be inferior to the other posis in every fasion. The game needs not only balance, but veriety. How about making the Hive Posi doing something different than the Mk1 or the AAP? (low drain, faster shots, or something).
vIsitor: Agreed.
I have no problem with a rare drop being REALLY good.
It is a good sign, imo, that I have had great difficulty procuring a pair so that I can test them more fully against other players, rather than having others test them against me.
I just dislike having weapons which remove the skill component.
I'd like to see Hiveposis as faster, or more damaging, or more energy efficient.
My Ideal would be to have the Hiveposis do something totally nonstandard, like causing havoc with the systems of a player who is hit by them. I don't know if this is doable yet, but it damn well ought to be.
Uber rare drops doesn't bother me, Uber autoaim does.
I have no problem with a rare drop being REALLY good.
It is a good sign, imo, that I have had great difficulty procuring a pair so that I can test them more fully against other players, rather than having others test them against me.
I just dislike having weapons which remove the skill component.
I'd like to see Hiveposis as faster, or more damaging, or more energy efficient.
My Ideal would be to have the Hiveposis do something totally nonstandard, like causing havoc with the systems of a player who is hit by them. I don't know if this is doable yet, but it damn well ought to be.
Uber rare drops doesn't bother me, Uber autoaim does.
i don't see what's wrong with having one rare drop weapon that has good autoaim. i get the whole "taking skill out of combat" argument, and i'm against better autoaim being used as an inpruvment in general terms, but it's only one weapon, and you have to use a fair amount of skill to get them.
all and all i don't see the hive posi being unbalanced as it is. granted, there should not be any more weapons like it (the AGT, hive GT, and hive posi are just the right number of such weapons IMO)
all and all i don't see the hive posi being unbalanced as it is. granted, there should not be any more weapons like it (the AGT, hive GT, and hive posi are just the right number of such weapons IMO)
It doesn't take hardly any skill to kill a queen.
The gun should have a good DPE/DPS but not a good auto aim.
The gun should have a good DPE/DPS but not a good auto aim.
"It doesn't take hardly any skill to kill a queen."
Yeah, but it takes a fair amount of skill, or at least perseverance to kill 10 of them (which is about what it takes to get a hive posi now... 20 if you want 2)
Yeah, but it takes a fair amount of skill, or at least perseverance to kill 10 of them (which is about what it takes to get a hive posi now... 20 if you want 2)
actualy it takes a lot of skill to kill a queen, just because it takes the same skill every time doesn't belitle the fact that it's something you have to learn how to do, and practice before you can expect reliable results.
do you think that just because proffesionsl carpenters don't screw up one out of every 3 times means carpentry takes no skill?
and as Cunjo said, you have to kill a large number of queens to maintain a steady flow of hive posies.
do you think that just because proffesionsl carpenters don't screw up one out of every 3 times means carpentry takes no skill?
and as Cunjo said, you have to kill a large number of queens to maintain a steady flow of hive posies.
> I'm not sure how you plan on flying a vulture with a 300m buffer between you and
> my Rev but your more than welcome to try.
The Corvus Vulturius has a 10m/s top speed advantage over the Rev C. That's one reason I like to fly it so much.
-:sigma.SB
> my Rev but your more than welcome to try.
The Corvus Vulturius has a 10m/s top speed advantage over the Rev C. That's one reason I like to fly it so much.
-:sigma.SB
Having finally gotten in game to dick around with the mythical Hive Posis <cue Dun DUn DUN here>, I think Shape needs to take his purist VO space combat as kung fu and stuff it up his ass. I see his point about the annoyance of AA and how it confers an advantage (ability to hit while manuvering to dodge more readily than straight fire weapon) that is somewhat antithetical to the twitch based combat he, Niki and to a lesser extent Ghost and some others, excel at.
Quite simply, tough shit. (1) they weigh 3 times normal posis, and talk about weight comparing to flares all you want, these things don't have prox... thus, weigh and the affects on thrust, even with a decent AA (and they are more or less comprable to gauss atm, they're just faster, and don't have the spread of AGT), do play a role here. As for the SCP with hive posis...I've flown one with a jack tossed on for kicks, and it's probably less deadly than a prom with suns and a hive gat. The point is that a SCP is a lumbering, thrust and armor rich weapons platform. Anything getting in its face can and will, if it's 1 on 1, get the stuffing ripped out of it. Get over it, this isn't a duel based game. You want to fix things, give the valk a serious buffing; Gods know it needs it.
(2) The fact that they drain 18 energy per shot and do less damage than an AAP and have less velocity equates to a more or less balanced weapon, especially when their current rarity is considered. I know, a non standard weapon... that sort of thing is unfair! Never allowed in duels or fair combat, it screws up the winner being the better pilot! Well shit, VO finally getting some elements of a non space quake game! Worry not, Shapey, I think your duel rating is probably still safe! If not, go queen some or buy yourself some more HP's. I have some available for 1 million a pop.
Yeah, I'm in the middle of a brief and need to cut this rant off short. But this is getting to be so goddamn typical of the VO reaction to fresh content that it makes me want to hurl all over some whiney beta's boots. There's a new element to the game. It's like an s port agt with worse AA, much higher drain, 1500 mass, a loooong refire, and..., oh yeah, the AA is just as easily beaten as the AGT's... except this one can't be made dangerous by switching to non AA and just rocking and rolling. Go RP something, or switch to UT 04
Quite simply, tough shit. (1) they weigh 3 times normal posis, and talk about weight comparing to flares all you want, these things don't have prox... thus, weigh and the affects on thrust, even with a decent AA (and they are more or less comprable to gauss atm, they're just faster, and don't have the spread of AGT), do play a role here. As for the SCP with hive posis...I've flown one with a jack tossed on for kicks, and it's probably less deadly than a prom with suns and a hive gat. The point is that a SCP is a lumbering, thrust and armor rich weapons platform. Anything getting in its face can and will, if it's 1 on 1, get the stuffing ripped out of it. Get over it, this isn't a duel based game. You want to fix things, give the valk a serious buffing; Gods know it needs it.
(2) The fact that they drain 18 energy per shot and do less damage than an AAP and have less velocity equates to a more or less balanced weapon, especially when their current rarity is considered. I know, a non standard weapon... that sort of thing is unfair! Never allowed in duels or fair combat, it screws up the winner being the better pilot! Well shit, VO finally getting some elements of a non space quake game! Worry not, Shapey, I think your duel rating is probably still safe! If not, go queen some or buy yourself some more HP's. I have some available for 1 million a pop.
Yeah, I'm in the middle of a brief and need to cut this rant off short. But this is getting to be so goddamn typical of the VO reaction to fresh content that it makes me want to hurl all over some whiney beta's boots. There's a new element to the game. It's like an s port agt with worse AA, much higher drain, 1500 mass, a loooong refire, and..., oh yeah, the AA is just as easily beaten as the AGT's... except this one can't be made dangerous by switching to non AA and just rocking and rolling. Go RP something, or switch to UT 04
Dr. Lecter,
Just because you have nothing positive to add to the thread doesn't mean that others shouldn't.
Having an unfairly balanced weapon is fine.
Its rare.
But having one that takes no skill to use is against what VO stands for.
Take the auto aim down and increase the other aspects of it.
It can still be uber.
Just because you have nothing positive to add to the thread doesn't mean that others shouldn't.
Having an unfairly balanced weapon is fine.
Its rare.
But having one that takes no skill to use is against what VO stands for.
Take the auto aim down and increase the other aspects of it.
It can still be uber.
i totaly disagree BoxCar,
for one thing the hive posi doesn't take no skill to use it just takes less skill to use. you still need to know hoe to dodge, and the AA can be esily fooled at certain ranges so you have to have good distance controle.
and i'd say it's better to have a rare item be easier to use than to have it be overpowered. of coarse in this context i mean overpowered as being the obviously superior choice to any other weapon.
as it is the hive posi is good, but because of it's weight and the dynamics of the auto-aim combined with it's other stats there are other weapons that are equaly practicle.
and besides VO is an MMORPG so there are going to be some situations where you are just plain out-classed by your oponent, be that because of their skill as apilot or their ability to accire rare and powerfull equipment.
disclaimer: i'm not saying that a trend towards easier to use weapons is good, i'm saying the hive posi alone doesn't break the skill-based combnat of VO.
for one thing the hive posi doesn't take no skill to use it just takes less skill to use. you still need to know hoe to dodge, and the AA can be esily fooled at certain ranges so you have to have good distance controle.
and i'd say it's better to have a rare item be easier to use than to have it be overpowered. of coarse in this context i mean overpowered as being the obviously superior choice to any other weapon.
as it is the hive posi is good, but because of it's weight and the dynamics of the auto-aim combined with it's other stats there are other weapons that are equaly practicle.
and besides VO is an MMORPG so there are going to be some situations where you are just plain out-classed by your oponent, be that because of their skill as apilot or their ability to accire rare and powerfull equipment.
disclaimer: i'm not saying that a trend towards easier to use weapons is good, i'm saying the hive posi alone doesn't break the skill-based combnat of VO.