Forums » Suggestions
... Please let the NATION specific ships to the nation players, I mean damn! the only difference between each nation is only the COLOUR! i wanna fly in space and feel good when i se a valk cause i know it will be ONLY a fellow ITANI as well seeing a prom should be an alert for an incoming fight!
so devs please, let us fly our nation beloved ships and prevent the others to do it.
Sercos and UIT, you should bring some alts up if you want to fly in a valk!
German police forces got bmw and porshes, france police forces got Peugeot, why can't we stick to that?
so devs please, let us fly our nation beloved ships and prevent the others to do it.
Sercos and UIT, you should bring some alts up if you want to fly in a valk!
German police forces got bmw and porshes, france police forces got Peugeot, why can't we stick to that?
For lack of a better way of saying it...
And while you're at it, why don't you figure out what those people who WORKED FOR THEIR STANDINGS will do? HMM?
And while you're at it, why don't you figure out what those people who WORKED FOR THEIR STANDINGS will do? HMM?
Yipyipyip!:
http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/9913
...and shouldn't this be in suggestions?
Yes, it should be (and now is) in suggestions.
I'd also like to point out that craig you will obviously get your wish with the new faction system when Serco and Itani standing become mutually exclusive.
FACTION should not be Mutually-Exclusive
BENEFITS of faction Should.
EDIT: Best...picture...evar:
BENEFITS of faction Should.
EDIT: Best...picture...evar:
Faction should not be mutually exclusive? So it should be possible to be Pillar of Society with both Itani and Serco, even though they hate each other? Explain to me how that makes sense from an RP standpoint...
UIT seem to get along just fine with both...
Diplomacy is a ficke thing - one nation (or person) can maintain their neutrality during a war between neighboring nations provided that they do not become directly involved or facilitate the war effort of either side. In some cases (such as gun-runners), they can even maintain neutrality even though they provide weapons to both opposing parties in the war. This does not, however, mean that either party would let a neutral third party climb in one of their tanks and take it for a joy ride - they're respected, not trusted.
Yes, it's perfectly reasonable for players to recieve their hard-earned civilian and commercial benefits of PoS in both the Itani and Serco nations.
What is NOT reasonable is that the Itani or Serco nations would give these people access to their military supplies and weapons of war when they're on good terms with the enemy.
Faction should not be mutually exclusive - having ti as such would utterly destroy the advantages of UIT players over those of other nations, waste the massive effort that certian players have put into achieving Admired/PoS in all nations and significantly lower the desireability of more peaceful roles in the universe.
Non-peaceful activities however should operate like the current BP mission - force players to take sides before they have access.
The Military benefits of faction should be mutually exclusive - players who choose the peaceful route and are liked by all factions will not have access to any military technology in the nations they visit. (If a trader wants to buy a Prom, he/shee will need to first bomb their Itani standing, etc...) This will prevent combatant players from having full access to technologies of opposing nations, because they will need to be hated by one in order to be given technology by the other.
Such an arrangement also has all of the benefits of mutually-exclusive factions, without any of the drawbacks.
Diplomacy is a ficke thing - one nation (or person) can maintain their neutrality during a war between neighboring nations provided that they do not become directly involved or facilitate the war effort of either side. In some cases (such as gun-runners), they can even maintain neutrality even though they provide weapons to both opposing parties in the war. This does not, however, mean that either party would let a neutral third party climb in one of their tanks and take it for a joy ride - they're respected, not trusted.
Yes, it's perfectly reasonable for players to recieve their hard-earned civilian and commercial benefits of PoS in both the Itani and Serco nations.
What is NOT reasonable is that the Itani or Serco nations would give these people access to their military supplies and weapons of war when they're on good terms with the enemy.
Faction should not be mutually exclusive - having ti as such would utterly destroy the advantages of UIT players over those of other nations, waste the massive effort that certian players have put into achieving Admired/PoS in all nations and significantly lower the desireability of more peaceful roles in the universe.
Non-peaceful activities however should operate like the current BP mission - force players to take sides before they have access.
The Military benefits of faction should be mutually exclusive - players who choose the peaceful route and are liked by all factions will not have access to any military technology in the nations they visit. (If a trader wants to buy a Prom, he/shee will need to first bomb their Itani standing, etc...) This will prevent combatant players from having full access to technologies of opposing nations, because they will need to be hated by one in order to be given technology by the other.
Such an arrangement also has all of the benefits of mutually-exclusive factions, without any of the drawbacks.
I really do not like the idea of mutually exclusive faction standing. The RP reason for this is that an economically useful/powerful individual (or perhaps a Hive hunter) may be well liked by both Serco and Itani.
Besides, such strict polar opposites does not add much to the game, it detracts from it by limiting characters to a location on a line between two factions. However, I also agree that making the existence of opposing sides actually MEAN something WOULD add to the game, potentially significantly. I suggest an alternative faction standing system; your faction standing between opposing factions would be modified as follows:
If you have at least +0 faction standing, you gain half the standing you lose for actions against the opposing side.
While you have less than +900 faction standing with one side, you lose half the faction standing you gain from the opposing side.
While you have at least +900 faction standing, you take double faction standing losses.
For example, say I have 850 Itani standing and 825 Serco standing. Then I gain 50 Itani standing to 900 for some trading mission; my Serco standing automatically drops 25 points (half of 50) to 800 on completion of the trade mission. I then gain 100 Serco standing to 900 with trading missions for them; my Itani standing doesn’t change because I have at least 900 with them. As a second example, if I had 0 Serco and 0 Itani, and killed a Serco CtC transport for -10 Serco, I would automatically gain 5 Itani standing.
My rationale for this is: Doing bad things to the bad guys makes you more popular (e.g. war hero); Doing nice things for the bad guys makes you less popular; Doing nice things for everyone is okay; If you are a highly respected member of society, doing bad things is considered MUCH worse than if you are a nobody (hello Martha Stewart); and being friends with two parties who are mad at each other is VERY hard. This also has the advantage of being a simple rule-based change to the current faction system, which thus hopefully would be relatively easy to implement.
However/also, since doing nice things for only the good guys is clearly best, I would prevent (or take away as appropriate) PoS standing from accruing to individuals with >=500 faction standing with the opposing side. I do not think this should materially affect how one may play the game though, so no ships/equipment requiring PoS, just badges, colors/insignia, and (at most) early access to special equipment (like a month or two ahead of +999).
I could also see military benefits of F.S. being exclusive, but would be very unhappy with it until the crafting system and/or some kind of a black market exists.
Besides, such strict polar opposites does not add much to the game, it detracts from it by limiting characters to a location on a line between two factions. However, I also agree that making the existence of opposing sides actually MEAN something WOULD add to the game, potentially significantly. I suggest an alternative faction standing system; your faction standing between opposing factions would be modified as follows:
If you have at least +0 faction standing, you gain half the standing you lose for actions against the opposing side.
While you have less than +900 faction standing with one side, you lose half the faction standing you gain from the opposing side.
While you have at least +900 faction standing, you take double faction standing losses.
For example, say I have 850 Itani standing and 825 Serco standing. Then I gain 50 Itani standing to 900 for some trading mission; my Serco standing automatically drops 25 points (half of 50) to 800 on completion of the trade mission. I then gain 100 Serco standing to 900 with trading missions for them; my Itani standing doesn’t change because I have at least 900 with them. As a second example, if I had 0 Serco and 0 Itani, and killed a Serco CtC transport for -10 Serco, I would automatically gain 5 Itani standing.
My rationale for this is: Doing bad things to the bad guys makes you more popular (e.g. war hero); Doing nice things for the bad guys makes you less popular; Doing nice things for everyone is okay; If you are a highly respected member of society, doing bad things is considered MUCH worse than if you are a nobody (hello Martha Stewart); and being friends with two parties who are mad at each other is VERY hard. This also has the advantage of being a simple rule-based change to the current faction system, which thus hopefully would be relatively easy to implement.
However/also, since doing nice things for only the good guys is clearly best, I would prevent (or take away as appropriate) PoS standing from accruing to individuals with >=500 faction standing with the opposing side. I do not think this should materially affect how one may play the game though, so no ships/equipment requiring PoS, just badges, colors/insignia, and (at most) early access to special equipment (like a month or two ahead of +999).
I could also see military benefits of F.S. being exclusive, but would be very unhappy with it until the crafting system and/or some kind of a black market exists.
I definately like LC's idea, though it would make sense to have some obfuscation of exactly *what* you're doing outside of a certian government's monitored space - i.e., if you're deep in the heart of Itani space, the Serco government wouldn't have a clue what you're up to aside from the occasional grapevine rumor... impact on your Serco faction then should be less than it would be in a border system or even gray 'free' space.
I would add this, however:
If your standing with a nation is above +950, you do not take subsequent faction hits for simply earning faction with an opposing nation - Logical/RP reason: at +950, you've earned the government's trust enough to be allowed more leniancy in dealing with other nations. Gameplay reason: This would make PoS possible in both nations, and keep it from being *too* difficult to gain faction above 950.
There DEFINATELY needs to be mutually-exclusive, or at least restrictive access to military benefits of faction. I really won't like being unable to buy valks in Itaniland personally, but it is a necessary sacrifice to preserve the balance and importance of nation in the game.
Perhaps a workable compromise would be to make the faction requirement of military technologies be expressed and limited also as the difference of your local faction standing and your faction standing with the opposing nation. Example:
to buy a Prometheus, you need to meet in faction:
>= +800 Serco AND >= +1400 Serco - Itani
So if you had +800 Serco faction, you would need to have -600 Itani faction; if, however, you had +1000 Serco faction, you would need only -400 Itani faction.
Items which are less closely-guarded (like the IBG, SVG and N3) would have more relaxed requirements, and generic ships and weapons may remove them altogether.
I would add this, however:
If your standing with a nation is above +950, you do not take subsequent faction hits for simply earning faction with an opposing nation - Logical/RP reason: at +950, you've earned the government's trust enough to be allowed more leniancy in dealing with other nations. Gameplay reason: This would make PoS possible in both nations, and keep it from being *too* difficult to gain faction above 950.
There DEFINATELY needs to be mutually-exclusive, or at least restrictive access to military benefits of faction. I really won't like being unable to buy valks in Itaniland personally, but it is a necessary sacrifice to preserve the balance and importance of nation in the game.
Perhaps a workable compromise would be to make the faction requirement of military technologies be expressed and limited also as the difference of your local faction standing and your faction standing with the opposing nation. Example:
to buy a Prometheus, you need to meet in faction:
>= +800 Serco AND >= +1400 Serco - Itani
So if you had +800 Serco faction, you would need to have -600 Itani faction; if, however, you had +1000 Serco faction, you would need only -400 Itani faction.
Items which are less closely-guarded (like the IBG, SVG and N3) would have more relaxed requirements, and generic ships and weapons may remove them altogether.
Chickens.
Existing faction system is a mockery. Get real. You cant be admired by your enemy, you cant buy enemy special ships and weps. You cannot enter enemy territory without being hunted, killed or arrested. Thats just plain stupid.
Existing faction system is a mockery. Get real. You cant be admired by your enemy, you cant buy enemy special ships and weps. You cannot enter enemy territory without being hunted, killed or arrested. Thats just plain stupid.
Yeah bojan, that's why some people would choose to be allies with certian nations rather than enemies.
If the nation likes you, then they're not your enemy.
If the nation likes you, then they're not your enemy.
And thats why we have UIT money grabbing corporate types.
They can be allies with everyone. Im fine with that.
They can be allies with everyone. Im fine with that.
No matter where you go, if you are liked by some clique, you will be hated by the members of thier rival clique.
If you do something for both Serco and Itani, thier overall opinion of you *will* be influenced by your dealings with the other side.
This is life, deal with it.
However, it's not exactly right to make them 100% mutually exclusive. Say something like:
Faction A and B can both be no higher that +599 together. (Play with this number, I am shooting for "Liked".) To take either faction beyond +599, you must take the other below -599. If the player takes an action that places him back to -599 or greater with the tanked faction, the favored faction should immidiatly drop to +599.
That would allow players to be liked by both, but never be fully "accepted" by either without some showing of "loyalty". Of course, a player could always manage to be hated, even KoS, to both.
My final blasphemy here is to say that Pillar of Society should only be allowed by members of that faction! No UIT or Serco should ever be considered the ultimate in what it means to be Itani. There exsists an latent xenophobia within every society, and this alone would exclude "outsiders" from being eligable for this position. PoS is a hallmark of achievement within ones own kind.
And finally, I agree with the OP. Make the Proms and Valks and Muarader exclusive to their native factions.
If you do something for both Serco and Itani, thier overall opinion of you *will* be influenced by your dealings with the other side.
This is life, deal with it.
However, it's not exactly right to make them 100% mutually exclusive. Say something like:
Faction A and B can both be no higher that +599 together. (Play with this number, I am shooting for "Liked".) To take either faction beyond +599, you must take the other below -599. If the player takes an action that places him back to -599 or greater with the tanked faction, the favored faction should immidiatly drop to +599.
That would allow players to be liked by both, but never be fully "accepted" by either without some showing of "loyalty". Of course, a player could always manage to be hated, even KoS, to both.
My final blasphemy here is to say that Pillar of Society should only be allowed by members of that faction! No UIT or Serco should ever be considered the ultimate in what it means to be Itani. There exsists an latent xenophobia within every society, and this alone would exclude "outsiders" from being eligable for this position. PoS is a hallmark of achievement within ones own kind.
And finally, I agree with the OP. Make the Proms and Valks and Muarader exclusive to their native factions.
been here, done this thread.. mines a lot longer and more involved tho..
http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/10089
http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/10089
Better idea than making ships exclusive to their nations.
You have to be POS if you're not of the nation to get a nation special. And KOS with the other side if you're Serco/Itani.
It makes sense... no?
You have to be POS if you're not of the nation to get a nation special. And KOS with the other side if you're Serco/Itani.
It makes sense... no?
Zyl:
That is not entirely accurate; there exist real-life situations in which both rival factions are on good terms with a third party.
I can agree that PoS makes more (RP/Logic) sense if iy was limited to one's own nation, but for gameplay reasons, it would be preferable to have exceptions.
Mutually-restrictive factions could work in some cases, however by-and-large, simply restricting non-civilian technology/mission access to players whom are disliked or hated by the other nation is a far better solution. This is primarily for gameplay reasons: A lot of people don't want to play in a universe where they need to be disliked by a nation, and many UIT have chosen their nation and dedicated their time to developing their characters for the sole reason that they can benefit from being on good terms with all nations.
Prom/SVG/Valk/IBG/Maud/WTD should be faction-exclusive, but this does not mean that they should be nation-exclusive.
i.e., an Itani can get a Prom, but only if they are loved by Serco and hated by Itani. The inverse is also true... as for UIT, the UIT hog/maud should be limited to those loved by UIT and disliked by Corvus (which isn't a problem for the UIT, since everyone starts out disliked by Corvus anyway... but there needs to be a way of tanking Corvus standing again if this is the case)
if the actual factions possible under nations are limited as an inverse function of opposing nations, it must be a VERY GENEROUS limitation (i.e., you can't get above +600 with one if you are above +800 with another, or something like that).
UIT and pacifist Serco/Itani deserve to have their faction... they just don't deserve to buy military-grade weapons of war with it.
That is not entirely accurate; there exist real-life situations in which both rival factions are on good terms with a third party.
I can agree that PoS makes more (RP/Logic) sense if iy was limited to one's own nation, but for gameplay reasons, it would be preferable to have exceptions.
Mutually-restrictive factions could work in some cases, however by-and-large, simply restricting non-civilian technology/mission access to players whom are disliked or hated by the other nation is a far better solution. This is primarily for gameplay reasons: A lot of people don't want to play in a universe where they need to be disliked by a nation, and many UIT have chosen their nation and dedicated their time to developing their characters for the sole reason that they can benefit from being on good terms with all nations.
Prom/SVG/Valk/IBG/Maud/WTD should be faction-exclusive, but this does not mean that they should be nation-exclusive.
i.e., an Itani can get a Prom, but only if they are loved by Serco and hated by Itani. The inverse is also true... as for UIT, the UIT hog/maud should be limited to those loved by UIT and disliked by Corvus (which isn't a problem for the UIT, since everyone starts out disliked by Corvus anyway... but there needs to be a way of tanking Corvus standing again if this is the case)
if the actual factions possible under nations are limited as an inverse function of opposing nations, it must be a VERY GENEROUS limitation (i.e., you can't get above +600 with one if you are above +800 with another, or something like that).
UIT and pacifist Serco/Itani deserve to have their faction... they just don't deserve to buy military-grade weapons of war with it.
I would note, Cunjo, that I already set the leniency level at 900+. :) 950+ would work as well though - same difference. I would like military access to remain restrictive (being made more so would be fine) instead of mutually exclusive as I do not want to lose my Hive hunter.
bojansplash, that sort of depends on how you define "enemy". Corporations are generally not an enemy (investigate U.S. oil companies and the oh-so-friendly nation of Libya for more on that). Also, there does not usually exist an entity in RL that 2 opposing sides would both like to see squashed on the side whilst they continue their own squabble (a.k.a. the Hive).
Who a character is friends with should depend mostly on their actions and play style, not their initial choice. Also, I would say that in-between people really ought to be able to at least be respected by both sides; primarily a powerful business mogul and a successful Hive hunter come to mind.
I can completely see limiting PoS to your initial faction only. However, I also want no actual in-game benefits (exclusive equipment/ship access, pricing, etc.) to be derived from it - just fun RP things (badges, emblems, colors, even some unique ships/equipment as long as other ships/equipment with strictly >= stats existed also).
bojansplash, that sort of depends on how you define "enemy". Corporations are generally not an enemy (investigate U.S. oil companies and the oh-so-friendly nation of Libya for more on that). Also, there does not usually exist an entity in RL that 2 opposing sides would both like to see squashed on the side whilst they continue their own squabble (a.k.a. the Hive).
Who a character is friends with should depend mostly on their actions and play style, not their initial choice. Also, I would say that in-between people really ought to be able to at least be respected by both sides; primarily a powerful business mogul and a successful Hive hunter come to mind.
I can completely see limiting PoS to your initial faction only. However, I also want no actual in-game benefits (exclusive equipment/ship access, pricing, etc.) to be derived from it - just fun RP things (badges, emblems, colors, even some unique ships/equipment as long as other ships/equipment with strictly >= stats existed also).
why not make flying an enemy specific ship in monitered space warent immediate KOS and otherwise leave everything more or less the same?
that way anyone can buy any ship depending on level and standing, but if they fly it in teratory monitered by that nations enemy the get tagged as hostil based on the reasoning that the friend of my enemy is my enemy.
that way anyone can buy any ship depending on level and standing, but if they fly it in teratory monitered by that nations enemy the get tagged as hostil based on the reasoning that the friend of my enemy is my enemy.
LQ:
"why not make flying an enemy specific ship in monitered space warent immediate KOS and otherwise leave everything more or less the same?
that way anyone can buy any ship depending on level and standing, but if they fly it in teratory monitered by that nations enemy the get tagged as hostil based on the reasoning that the friend of my enemy is my enemy."
I have advocated for this at LEAST half a dozen times... but nobody listens to me, apparently.
Yes, flying a nation-specific ship in the territory of the opposing nation should cause an immediate tKOS (not permanent) which will remain until you either lose the ship, or leave their space. (at which point a minor to moderate lasting standing hit may be kept)
The same could be applied to contraband if such a thing is ever brought into the picture - you get caught with the illegal goods/weapons during a scan, you get tKOS'ed until you ditch it, and then take a minor to moderate permanent standing hit.
"why not make flying an enemy specific ship in monitered space warent immediate KOS and otherwise leave everything more or less the same?
that way anyone can buy any ship depending on level and standing, but if they fly it in teratory monitered by that nations enemy the get tagged as hostil based on the reasoning that the friend of my enemy is my enemy."
I have advocated for this at LEAST half a dozen times... but nobody listens to me, apparently.
Yes, flying a nation-specific ship in the territory of the opposing nation should cause an immediate tKOS (not permanent) which will remain until you either lose the ship, or leave their space. (at which point a minor to moderate lasting standing hit may be kept)
The same could be applied to contraband if such a thing is ever brought into the picture - you get caught with the illegal goods/weapons during a scan, you get tKOS'ed until you ditch it, and then take a minor to moderate permanent standing hit.