Forums » Suggestions
Cunjo, under my proposal, you could be +599 with both Serco and Itani. You would simply be unable to become more liked by either unless you actually picked a side.
keep valks to itani and proms to sercos damnit where is the problem? when you choose a nation you should know which ship they offer? it's just like usa sells m16 to russia ( and russia sells kalachnikov to usa) during the cold war(french name dunno its is the same in english)
Damnit if you want a valk you should be Itani (or at least UIT PoS itani)
Damnit if you want a valk you should be Itani (or at least UIT PoS itani)
I agree. Factions are broken. New client was supposed to fix this, right? It seems sooooo simple to fix.
Zyl:
Beyond +599 the faction should not simply fall off to hated. For one, it doesn't make sense that a nation would suddenly KOS you like that just for raising your faction with the opposing side one point.
Really though, I would prefer that faction itself should be seperate from trust, in that you can achieve very high faction with both sides, but just wouldn't be able to use it toward military applications while you're on good terms with the enemy.
Beyond +599 the faction should not simply fall off to hated. For one, it doesn't make sense that a nation would suddenly KOS you like that just for raising your faction with the opposing side one point.
Really though, I would prefer that faction itself should be seperate from trust, in that you can achieve very high faction with both sides, but just wouldn't be able to use it toward military applications while you're on good terms with the enemy.
Cunjo, please go back and actually read what I said.
You *WILL NOT* automatically drop to hated. Your faction simply would no longer rise above +599 unless *YOU* took actions that made you hated by thier enemy. It's the old "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" routine really.
I did however say that if you are, as a UIT for example, +999 to Serco, and you took actions to bring your faction above -600 with Itani, the Serco would see this as a slight, and your faction with them would take a hit back to +599. This means that they would still like you, but your would not be admired (or eligable to be admired) until you "made clear" your alliegences, and earned that standing back.
To be more specific, as I seem to overly need to here, by "make clear" I mean, you must do something that makes you standing with Itani hated (-999 - -600) again, and then raise your faction with Serco to 600 or above to regain admired status.
This is, in short, mutual exclusivity of the admired state. You are free to be "liked" by both, but can only be "admired" by one if "hated" by the other.
You *WILL NOT* automatically drop to hated. Your faction simply would no longer rise above +599 unless *YOU* took actions that made you hated by thier enemy. It's the old "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" routine really.
I did however say that if you are, as a UIT for example, +999 to Serco, and you took actions to bring your faction above -600 with Itani, the Serco would see this as a slight, and your faction with them would take a hit back to +599. This means that they would still like you, but your would not be admired (or eligable to be admired) until you "made clear" your alliegences, and earned that standing back.
To be more specific, as I seem to overly need to here, by "make clear" I mean, you must do something that makes you standing with Itani hated (-999 - -600) again, and then raise your faction with Serco to 600 or above to regain admired status.
This is, in short, mutual exclusivity of the admired state. You are free to be "liked" by both, but can only be "admired" by one if "hated" by the other.
Zyl,
or you could just make it so that Itani + Serco <= 1000. so you could have +500 with both or +900 with Itani and +100 with Serco. and any time you gain faction such that it would put you over the 1000 total it subtracts the excess from the oposing faction.
additionaly by altering the total number you can achieve a sort of degree of hatred between various pairs of opposing faction. so for UIT and Corvus it might be 1000 (the don't like each other officialy but aren't realy at war) where as for Itani and Serco it could be more like 500 so you can't be admired by one without the other being in negatives.
or you could just make it so that Itani + Serco <= 1000. so you could have +500 with both or +900 with Itani and +100 with Serco. and any time you gain faction such that it would put you over the 1000 total it subtracts the excess from the oposing faction.
additionaly by altering the total number you can achieve a sort of degree of hatred between various pairs of opposing faction. so for UIT and Corvus it might be 1000 (the don't like each other officialy but aren't realy at war) where as for Itani and Serco it could be more like 500 so you can't be admired by one without the other being in negatives.
from a gameplay perspective i'm against the idea that merely raising your rep with one side of a mutually exclusive pair would lower the standing with the other once you reach the balance point.
I'd rathar anything you do that would raise your faction instead trigger a message, something like "we thank you for your assistance but must ask ourselves what your true reasons are given the high esteem <BLAH> holds you in."
This way to raise one side of a mutually exclusive pair you have to intentionally lower the one faction BEFORE you could raise the other one.
Theres nothing preventing a certain type of action from doing both however.. a mission to kill a pilot of faction A could very well give a boost to faction B -AND- a loss to faction A, but this way things like simply taking a trade mission wouldnt HURT your standing with another faction. (it might not help your standing with the people you take it for, but it cant HURT you.)
I'd rathar anything you do that would raise your faction instead trigger a message, something like "we thank you for your assistance but must ask ourselves what your true reasons are given the high esteem <BLAH> holds you in."
This way to raise one side of a mutually exclusive pair you have to intentionally lower the one faction BEFORE you could raise the other one.
Theres nothing preventing a certain type of action from doing both however.. a mission to kill a pilot of faction A could very well give a boost to faction B -AND- a loss to faction A, but this way things like simply taking a trade mission wouldnt HURT your standing with another faction. (it might not help your standing with the people you take it for, but it cant HURT you.)
Agreed, Spellcast. Gaining faction standing should never hurt your standing with anyone else.
So your a loyal Chinese airforce pilot and you decide to do some favors for the US government, what ever that might be. You don't think the Chinese government would be mad at you for even talking to the US?
IF the factions are bitter enemies (Serco-Itani | UIT-Pirates) then there should be and equal and opposite faction adjustment.
BUT some factions should not effect each other, such as the non-aligned corporations.
IF the factions are bitter enemies (Serco-Itani | UIT-Pirates) then there should be and equal and opposite faction adjustment.
BUT some factions should not effect each other, such as the non-aligned corporations.
So your a loyal Chinese airforce pilot and you decide to do some favors for the US government, what ever that might be. You don't think the Chinese government would be mad at you for even talking to the US?
No, they would be, but that falls into the 'affects both standings at once' category...
A chinese buisnesman in hong-kong however could potentially work with the US trade regulatory agencies to gain concessions for shipping products into the USA in exchange for other manufacturing rights in china without unduly upsetting his government.
Some missions (transport secret datapad plans for example) would have a negative impact with the opposing faction as part of the mission 'reward'. Going out and killing a hive bot would NOT, however once you reach the cap/balance point/set maximum killing the hive bot would not give you any GAIN either, not until you intentionally do something to lower the opposing rep.
And agreed, some factions, (most of the corporate factions) would not affect each other at all.
No, they would be, but that falls into the 'affects both standings at once' category...
A chinese buisnesman in hong-kong however could potentially work with the US trade regulatory agencies to gain concessions for shipping products into the USA in exchange for other manufacturing rights in china without unduly upsetting his government.
Some missions (transport secret datapad plans for example) would have a negative impact with the opposing faction as part of the mission 'reward'. Going out and killing a hive bot would NOT, however once you reach the cap/balance point/set maximum killing the hive bot would not give you any GAIN either, not until you intentionally do something to lower the opposing rep.
And agreed, some factions, (most of the corporate factions) would not affect each other at all.
I still think that there should be a workaround to gain and maintain high status with all factions (though, granted, it should be very difficult) This is a part of the whole 'faction means something', thing... as a combatant, high faction in all nations will be worthless, and there's really no point in having faction with the enemy at all, however, as a civilian, international service pilot (hive hunter, bounty hunter, etc..) or business mogul, mutually high faction is not only beneficial but important and not at all unrealistic.
There should be no military benefits for faction if you're held in high regard by opposing factions, but the faction should still be there, and hold its civilian and commercial benefits.
Zyl:
Yes, I read your post and understood it; you were and still are suggesting that a significant drop of faction would be required to progress beyond +599, and that if brought above -599 in an opposing faction, the admired faction would drop off.
For all the reasons I have suggested previously in this thread, and those listed above, I am against this.
What I have suggested is a good and simple solution to the issue addressed in this thread, and would not subject neutral or noncombatant players to undue aggravation. It is also a good starting point - better to tweak the faction system in small increments than to revamp it alltogether - if nore tweaking is still needed, then perhaps mutualy-restrictive factions should be considered.
they should not be considered first.
There should be no military benefits for faction if you're held in high regard by opposing factions, but the faction should still be there, and hold its civilian and commercial benefits.
Zyl:
Yes, I read your post and understood it; you were and still are suggesting that a significant drop of faction would be required to progress beyond +599, and that if brought above -599 in an opposing faction, the admired faction would drop off.
For all the reasons I have suggested previously in this thread, and those listed above, I am against this.
What I have suggested is a good and simple solution to the issue addressed in this thread, and would not subject neutral or noncombatant players to undue aggravation. It is also a good starting point - better to tweak the faction system in small increments than to revamp it alltogether - if nore tweaking is still needed, then perhaps mutualy-restrictive factions should be considered.
they should not be considered first.