Forums » Suggestions
(a musing on the logical next step)
I recall them being placeholders for a more advanced system of missions...
...so can't we have combat missions that grant you direct access to equipment? Instead of the crude faction system we have which (for some odd reason) allows you high-tech military equipment after a couple procurement missions, keep the heavy-duty stuff apart from pleb licenses and under their own mission trees in order to unlock them. I'm guessing this would be more a case of design rather than coding, so it would be not only a great work-out for the mission editor, but actual fun for both the playerbase and the devs to architect such an array of tasks, and provide HUGE playability for both the hardcore and casual gamer. (Want to get right to the PVP? Do the military missions for the N2s and SVG/IBG. Getting bored? Mix it up by unlocking the sunflares. Want to start kicking ass? Spend a few hours trying to crack the Skycommand missions.)
Your average player should be able to get hold of any basic weapon variant along with one or two improved versions (plasma HX, both ice and starflares, all types of mine) and all non-military-specific ship types (IBG, SVG, all proms/valks would be unavailable as well as any capital ship sanctioned by government.)
Basically, it seems stupid to have these arbitrary numbers dictating what you can and can't buy- when license levels could instead become available after you complete certain minor missions- and require a rigorous (?) test before you gain these currently meaningless qualifications.
Examples;
[Combat 4 (requires light 2 and heavy 2)]:
We have allocated a duel partner for you, his name is *efajfaghksdgakjsdf. Frankly, he's been a royal pain in the ass to us, so where normally we'd simply ask you to fight a reprogrammed hive drone, you're going to destroy him instead. He will be flying a Vulture MkII, but hasn't decided on his weaponry as of this point- fly out to meet him in sector ***, and don't come back without his scrap in your hold. We recommend using a similar ship to his, with the neutron blasters we haven't officially given you for this task as an added incentive.
-you receive 2 neutron blasters, and go out to do the mission, return, and get the license.
[Heavy 2 (requires access to a ship with an L port)]: This is a reasonably basic test for you, and excellent field testing of our new Plasma Devastator auto-targeting systems. We discovered a way to make the manufacturing more cost-efficient, but regrettably we were forced to make some... adjustments. We have programmed some collector-class drones to engage you in pairs at location ***, and having never used such weapons previously you shouldn't notice the reduction in targeting arc. Regrettably, the drones weren't as cost-efficient to capture and reprogram as we anticipated, so we require a fee of five (5) thousand credits before we can dispatch them.
-you get a plasdev with a neutron targetting arc, and have to take out 4 oruns, 2 at a time with it on provided warthog.
Its possible to give each and every mission its own unique setting and personality in the slightly dysfunctional universe we know and love. And we all get to play with that soon (when the web mission editor goes online.) So let's get rid of the one thing that's tying us to the crap attached with "conventional" MMORPGs, eh?
Licenses for regular stuff
Special military/faction missions for advanced stuff
No more experience points. Only missions. Hopeful timescale- couple months. Realistic timescale- double that.
And none of this touches upon, lets say, competitive licenses or special missions where you have to fight other players for the right for the kickass stuff.
I recall them being placeholders for a more advanced system of missions...
...so can't we have combat missions that grant you direct access to equipment? Instead of the crude faction system we have which (for some odd reason) allows you high-tech military equipment after a couple procurement missions, keep the heavy-duty stuff apart from pleb licenses and under their own mission trees in order to unlock them. I'm guessing this would be more a case of design rather than coding, so it would be not only a great work-out for the mission editor, but actual fun for both the playerbase and the devs to architect such an array of tasks, and provide HUGE playability for both the hardcore and casual gamer. (Want to get right to the PVP? Do the military missions for the N2s and SVG/IBG. Getting bored? Mix it up by unlocking the sunflares. Want to start kicking ass? Spend a few hours trying to crack the Skycommand missions.)
Your average player should be able to get hold of any basic weapon variant along with one or two improved versions (plasma HX, both ice and starflares, all types of mine) and all non-military-specific ship types (IBG, SVG, all proms/valks would be unavailable as well as any capital ship sanctioned by government.)
Basically, it seems stupid to have these arbitrary numbers dictating what you can and can't buy- when license levels could instead become available after you complete certain minor missions- and require a rigorous (?) test before you gain these currently meaningless qualifications.
Examples;
[Combat 4 (requires light 2 and heavy 2)]:
We have allocated a duel partner for you, his name is *efajfaghksdgakjsdf. Frankly, he's been a royal pain in the ass to us, so where normally we'd simply ask you to fight a reprogrammed hive drone, you're going to destroy him instead. He will be flying a Vulture MkII, but hasn't decided on his weaponry as of this point- fly out to meet him in sector ***, and don't come back without his scrap in your hold. We recommend using a similar ship to his, with the neutron blasters we haven't officially given you for this task as an added incentive.
-you receive 2 neutron blasters, and go out to do the mission, return, and get the license.
[Heavy 2 (requires access to a ship with an L port)]: This is a reasonably basic test for you, and excellent field testing of our new Plasma Devastator auto-targeting systems. We discovered a way to make the manufacturing more cost-efficient, but regrettably we were forced to make some... adjustments. We have programmed some collector-class drones to engage you in pairs at location ***, and having never used such weapons previously you shouldn't notice the reduction in targeting arc. Regrettably, the drones weren't as cost-efficient to capture and reprogram as we anticipated, so we require a fee of five (5) thousand credits before we can dispatch them.
-you get a plasdev with a neutron targetting arc, and have to take out 4 oruns, 2 at a time with it on provided warthog.
Its possible to give each and every mission its own unique setting and personality in the slightly dysfunctional universe we know and love. And we all get to play with that soon (when the web mission editor goes online.) So let's get rid of the one thing that's tying us to the crap attached with "conventional" MMORPGs, eh?
Licenses for regular stuff
Special military/faction missions for advanced stuff
No more experience points. Only missions. Hopeful timescale- couple months. Realistic timescale- double that.
And none of this touches upon, lets say, competitive licenses or special missions where you have to fight other players for the right for the kickass stuff.
I like this idea.
I only skimmed this, but what I read basically encapsulates the original intentions. Yes, I wanted to have "licenses", but it was just supposed to be this minor thing where you would take a mission that made you jump through hoops to get a particular license. Like getting a driver's license. And everything else would be made available based on what we call "Accomplishments".
An Accomplishment is something given for a mission. A flag in your character. It can have some kind of visible context, like a medal, or it can simply be a hidden flag. The idea being, finishing a mission gives you the Accomplishment for that mission, which then can trigger.. anything. Usually, it would trigger A) the next mission in the tree or alternative missions that use the completed as a prerequisite B) availability of items and equipment which depend on that accomplishment C) practically anything else. I wanted missions that cross-triggered, rare mission spawns, special branches based on particular Accomplishment combinations that might be less common, and so on.
Unfortunately, all of that hinged on.. uhh, well, having missions. Which, has really been a major setback in the evolution of the game (as I intended it, at least). So anyway, once we have actual missions, in a quantity greater than like.. five, hopefully we can get back to doing this. All the infrastructure is there, it's only the actual missions that are missing.
So, yes, good suggestion :). It's exactly what I planned, circa '99. But, without any missions, all that was left was the stupid license crap. <sigh>.
An Accomplishment is something given for a mission. A flag in your character. It can have some kind of visible context, like a medal, or it can simply be a hidden flag. The idea being, finishing a mission gives you the Accomplishment for that mission, which then can trigger.. anything. Usually, it would trigger A) the next mission in the tree or alternative missions that use the completed as a prerequisite B) availability of items and equipment which depend on that accomplishment C) practically anything else. I wanted missions that cross-triggered, rare mission spawns, special branches based on particular Accomplishment combinations that might be less common, and so on.
Unfortunately, all of that hinged on.. uhh, well, having missions. Which, has really been a major setback in the evolution of the game (as I intended it, at least). So anyway, once we have actual missions, in a quantity greater than like.. five, hopefully we can get back to doing this. All the infrastructure is there, it's only the actual missions that are missing.
So, yes, good suggestion :). It's exactly what I planned, circa '99. But, without any missions, all that was left was the stupid license crap. <sigh>.
wow, it never ceses to amaze me how much you devs seem to have a similar vision for the "ideal Vendetta Online" as i do.
"badge like" lisences would totaly rock
"badge like" lisences would totaly rock
Some things would be badges (military tracks, for one), but the vast majority would probably be invisible, and just made apparent in like.. variations in NPC dialogue and things like that. "Now that you've proven yourselves to us with blah blah blah" and so on.
i dont like having to do some mission to get an item. thats why people play WoW 35 hours a week. its a big old boys network and the few elite guilds who get the crucial items required for ultimate victory have no job, no life, etc. they just play WoW all the time.
im sure im in the minority but whatever.
im sure im in the minority but whatever.
Cool! I agree with UncleDave, and I'm excited Incarnate wants to take things in that direction.
One thing to note of course is that maxing out your levels in VO takes far less time than in other MMOs, so even though the level grind is there, it's not as much a key part of the game design.
One thing to note of course is that maxing out your levels in VO takes far less time than in other MMOs, so even though the level grind is there, it's not as much a key part of the game design.
Yesir.
Well, this is all well and good for the military track.
(I especially like the EV-Nova-like combat rating from "Harmless" to "Deadly" that was discussed in some other thread before.)
But, what about the majority of folks out there who like doing other stuff? The quiet ones who mine and trade and amass wealth. There should be missions for them as well.
I mean, I like the idea, and it makes sense with the new mission editor. However, there should be mission badges that affect the traders and miners as well. How about diplomacy missions or detective/mystery missions or theft missions or exploration missions or... Well you get the idea.
(I especially like the EV-Nova-like combat rating from "Harmless" to "Deadly" that was discussed in some other thread before.)
But, what about the majority of folks out there who like doing other stuff? The quiet ones who mine and trade and amass wealth. There should be missions for them as well.
I mean, I like the idea, and it makes sense with the new mission editor. However, there should be mission badges that affect the traders and miners as well. How about diplomacy missions or detective/mystery missions or theft missions or exploration missions or... Well you get the idea.
Leber, of course there would be missions for trading and mining and stuff.
For that matter we allready have the mining tutorial.. I doubt it would take much effort to redo the mining tutorial on the new mission creator AND change the 'accomplishment' flags so that it opens up basic mining equipment instead of giving XP.
Mining missions in the station could add flags as well, once you complete X missions (accumulate X flags) new equipment becomes availible.
Cross classing equipment becomes easier as well, how about a FC battery that can be accessed if you have EITHER a "Trade mission Q" flag or a "Combat mission Y" flag.
The behemoth becomes availible after you do ONE of the following:
-complete X 'normal' trade missions for a single faction
-Do a 'special' trade mission (run a blockade, lead a convoy through a dangerous area, aquire a large supply of commodity P) for a faction
-supply a large enough.... 'licensing fee' (its a bribe, these are money grubbing merchants after all :P ) to a specific station. (can only buy the ship at that station)
Ideally i'd like to see a good selection of basic 'civillian' ships availible at the very beginning of the game. the bus, the wraith, the atlas, maybe the centaur.
You'd have to complete missions for better batteries (maybe start off with the light battery availible as well) and to buy weapons, but the ship hulls would be there. (make them a bit more expensive than they are now however, particularly the atlas and the centaur.)
'Combat' ships would require specific missions to be completed, and a certain faction standing to be met. (and the faction system needs a revamp so its not AS simple to gain faction points, I have an old post about faction somewhere but i'm too lazy to dig it up at the moment)
the best ships and weapons would be at the end of much more complicated mission trees, and only availible with a 'military mission tree' (faction specific and exclusive to some other factions, no valks and proms for the same character) or through a series of missions at.. say.. corvus, where you can get illegal versions (with ever so slightly reduced stats) of the ships for a higher cost but without the exclusivity. The tradeoff would be that ALL 3 of the 'nation' factions would refuse to do buisness with you, as would some of the corporations. the other corporations would possibly charge more for services and equipment.
aditionally (if possible) getting spotted in nation space with an 'illegal variant' of one of thier military ships would trigger bounties, defense units, and other such entertaining events.
For that matter we allready have the mining tutorial.. I doubt it would take much effort to redo the mining tutorial on the new mission creator AND change the 'accomplishment' flags so that it opens up basic mining equipment instead of giving XP.
Mining missions in the station could add flags as well, once you complete X missions (accumulate X flags) new equipment becomes availible.
Cross classing equipment becomes easier as well, how about a FC battery that can be accessed if you have EITHER a "Trade mission Q" flag or a "Combat mission Y" flag.
The behemoth becomes availible after you do ONE of the following:
-complete X 'normal' trade missions for a single faction
-Do a 'special' trade mission (run a blockade, lead a convoy through a dangerous area, aquire a large supply of commodity P) for a faction
-supply a large enough.... 'licensing fee' (its a bribe, these are money grubbing merchants after all :P ) to a specific station. (can only buy the ship at that station)
Ideally i'd like to see a good selection of basic 'civillian' ships availible at the very beginning of the game. the bus, the wraith, the atlas, maybe the centaur.
You'd have to complete missions for better batteries (maybe start off with the light battery availible as well) and to buy weapons, but the ship hulls would be there. (make them a bit more expensive than they are now however, particularly the atlas and the centaur.)
'Combat' ships would require specific missions to be completed, and a certain faction standing to be met. (and the faction system needs a revamp so its not AS simple to gain faction points, I have an old post about faction somewhere but i'm too lazy to dig it up at the moment)
the best ships and weapons would be at the end of much more complicated mission trees, and only availible with a 'military mission tree' (faction specific and exclusive to some other factions, no valks and proms for the same character) or through a series of missions at.. say.. corvus, where you can get illegal versions (with ever so slightly reduced stats) of the ships for a higher cost but without the exclusivity. The tradeoff would be that ALL 3 of the 'nation' factions would refuse to do buisness with you, as would some of the corporations. the other corporations would possibly charge more for services and equipment.
aditionally (if possible) getting spotted in nation space with an 'illegal variant' of one of thier military ships would trigger bounties, defense units, and other such entertaining events.
Can I get a "Mostly Harmless" tag attached to my name?
It's assumed, but sure. >:P
Oh! Don't forget to give one to Leebs too. :P
Leebs is harmless unless he's been drinking.
i want an "always harmless" tag
"mostly harmless"
Back on topic...
How many badges would this take? Would you "see" all the badges that you have? This could add up to a lot of screen clutter. I'm assuming that the badges would appear in a little scrolling list somewhere, instead of plastered at the bottom of your char info.
Perhaps you no longer get a badge for every mission, but for only "Major" missions completed. So there would be "minor" missions that are listed in your accomplishments, but there's no shiny badge for them.
How many badges would this take? Would you "see" all the badges that you have? This could add up to a lot of screen clutter. I'm assuming that the badges would appear in a little scrolling list somewhere, instead of plastered at the bottom of your char info.
Perhaps you no longer get a badge for every mission, but for only "Major" missions completed. So there would be "minor" missions that are listed in your accomplishments, but there's no shiny badge for them.
Wait, I just realized that an implementation of such a system would require a Character Reset!!!
Oh, and lots and lots of missions so chara are not clones of each other.
Oh, and lots and lots of missions so chara are not clones of each other.
I'm pretty sure that most people would be amicable with a character reset.
Sure, lots of work was put into getting all that xp and such... but... come on... if you're there, you've probably got the skills to get back there relatively quickly.
One thing though, keep bounties collected and queens killed unchanged. (I like my megaposis... K? and it takes too long to kill a queen w/o them)
Sure, lots of work was put into getting all that xp and such... but... come on... if you're there, you've probably got the skills to get back there relatively quickly.
One thing though, keep bounties collected and queens killed unchanged. (I like my megaposis... K? and it takes too long to kill a queen w/o them)
How many badges would this take?
that would be determined by the devs of course. I'm not proposing any hard numbers because we'd have to play with the system and see how actual numbers worked to figure it out.
Would you "see" all the badges that you have?
go re-read incarnates post leber. The flags can be invisible, or a bunch of counters like the 'missions completed' we have now
oh, and the new UI takes care of the badge clutter nicely. :)
that would be determined by the devs of course. I'm not proposing any hard numbers because we'd have to play with the system and see how actual numbers worked to figure it out.
Would you "see" all the badges that you have?
go re-read incarnates post leber. The flags can be invisible, or a bunch of counters like the 'missions completed' we have now
oh, and the new UI takes care of the badge clutter nicely. :)