Forums » Suggestions
Perhaps the Behemoth needs a few different models as stated before.
The current Behemoth has 45000 Hp and 120 cu as well as 2 large ports, a formidable foe on any standards. Maybe we could split the up into four or even five versions of the same ship.
Heres what im thinking for the five different versions.
Behemoth Stock: *Model would be smaller than the regular Behemoth now.*
Cost: 1,1200c
20000 Hp
45cu
1 small port/ 1 large port
Regular speed:55
Max turbo of 180
Level Requiremnts: Trade 4 Mining 4
Behemoth MKI: *Slighty smaller than the current model*
Cost: 21000c
35000hp
80cu
1 Large Port
Regular speed:50
Max turbo of 160
Level Requirements: Trade 7 Mining 5
Behemoth MKII: *Regular Behemoth model*
Cost: 35000c
45000hp
120cu
2 large ports
Regular speed of 40
Max trubo of 150
Level Requirements: Trade 10 Mining 8
Behemoth MKIII: *Larger Than current Behemoth model*
Cost: 65000c
55000hp
160cu
1 small/ 1 large port limited to mining related equipment
Regular speed of 35
Max turbo of 160
Level Requirements: Trade 13 Mining 11
Behemoth Unlimited: *large model, very slow, twice the current size of the behemoth.*
Cost: 125,000c
70000hp
220cu
2 ports of each limited to mining equipment.
Regular speed of 30
Max turbo of 130
*only equip with heavy battery*
Level Requirements: Trade 18 Mining 15
The variations in size would just be to show the actual difference between the different models of the ship. Remeber, after frigates and other larger ships come out we may see a ship with 250cu, or even 500 to 1000 cu for a capital ship. Considering how the future of vendetta is going to evolve, the Behemoth may eventually become the poor mans trading ship.
The current Behemoth has 45000 Hp and 120 cu as well as 2 large ports, a formidable foe on any standards. Maybe we could split the up into four or even five versions of the same ship.
Heres what im thinking for the five different versions.
Behemoth Stock: *Model would be smaller than the regular Behemoth now.*
Cost: 1,1200c
20000 Hp
45cu
1 small port/ 1 large port
Regular speed:55
Max turbo of 180
Level Requiremnts: Trade 4 Mining 4
Behemoth MKI: *Slighty smaller than the current model*
Cost: 21000c
35000hp
80cu
1 Large Port
Regular speed:50
Max turbo of 160
Level Requirements: Trade 7 Mining 5
Behemoth MKII: *Regular Behemoth model*
Cost: 35000c
45000hp
120cu
2 large ports
Regular speed of 40
Max trubo of 150
Level Requirements: Trade 10 Mining 8
Behemoth MKIII: *Larger Than current Behemoth model*
Cost: 65000c
55000hp
160cu
1 small/ 1 large port limited to mining related equipment
Regular speed of 35
Max turbo of 160
Level Requirements: Trade 13 Mining 11
Behemoth Unlimited: *large model, very slow, twice the current size of the behemoth.*
Cost: 125,000c
70000hp
220cu
2 ports of each limited to mining equipment.
Regular speed of 30
Max turbo of 130
*only equip with heavy battery*
Level Requirements: Trade 18 Mining 15
The variations in size would just be to show the actual difference between the different models of the ship. Remeber, after frigates and other larger ships come out we may see a ship with 250cu, or even 500 to 1000 cu for a capital ship. Considering how the future of vendetta is going to evolve, the Behemoth may eventually become the poor mans trading ship.
honestly guys, I think grey space isn't dangerous because there aren't enough pirates, and the pirates are lazy. Most of em sit in B8 and wait or float back and forth on the worm hole....
I hear complaints "It's hard to be a pirate, we only make a percentage of you traders"
What do you expect? you're playing the role of a criminal. you are stealing for a living, this isn't going to ever be more profitable than trade, nor should it be. not to mention, most pirates seem way too picky about what cargo they'll haul, and how far they'll haul it. IF THEY EVEN TAKE THE CARGO. you gotta work for it boys... you think traders fly by cargo if they have room? no. that's why they make more than you, because they work harder. Either sell more cargo or set up a toll booth and enforce it... but stop the whining. it's not the ship's fault.
As far as the moth is concerned, No ship should be without weapons, it's just silly. Do you think cargo ships floating in our oceans have no weapons? The space shuttle? of course they do. Especially around pirates who kill for sport.
I've ALWAYS thought it seemed silly that the battery drain was so low, on something so heavy. It just makes sense that it would require some serious juice to push a big boat.
I think the answer to all of this would simply be to increase the battery drain. This would make route planning and quick reaction more critical, and make the moth more realistic, while giving both traders and pirates a fighting chance.
I hear complaints "It's hard to be a pirate, we only make a percentage of you traders"
What do you expect? you're playing the role of a criminal. you are stealing for a living, this isn't going to ever be more profitable than trade, nor should it be. not to mention, most pirates seem way too picky about what cargo they'll haul, and how far they'll haul it. IF THEY EVEN TAKE THE CARGO. you gotta work for it boys... you think traders fly by cargo if they have room? no. that's why they make more than you, because they work harder. Either sell more cargo or set up a toll booth and enforce it... but stop the whining. it's not the ship's fault.
As far as the moth is concerned, No ship should be without weapons, it's just silly. Do you think cargo ships floating in our oceans have no weapons? The space shuttle? of course they do. Especially around pirates who kill for sport.
I've ALWAYS thought it seemed silly that the battery drain was so low, on something so heavy. It just makes sense that it would require some serious juice to push a big boat.
I think the answer to all of this would simply be to increase the battery drain. This would make route planning and quick reaction more critical, and make the moth more realistic, while giving both traders and pirates a fighting chance.
mellowvision,
agreed, except for this part:
"As far as the moth is concerned, No ship should be without weapons, it's just silly. Do you think cargo ships floating in our oceans have no weapons? The space shuttle? of course they do. Especially around pirates who kill for sport."
i'm fairly certain that most civilian transports (oil tankers, cruse ships, trash barges, 747s, ferries, research ships, etc) don't carry weapons* (i may be wrong about the oil tankers) i am however certain that the space shuttle does not.
and i don't care one way or the other about the drain (except that the moth should have the ability to make it out to jump range without having to recharge with some battery, i don't care which one)
"Even if the moth is the equivalent of a 1 ton pickup truck, (a fairly small cargo hauler compared to a semi or a freight train) it should be in danger if its in a dangerous area."
-Spellcast
also agreed. now with that established, the moth doesn't need to be slower, it needs to have less armor (making it more killable by a lone pirat) thereby increasing the danger of flying a moth through pirat teretory without reducing it's desierability as a large cargo shuttle for use in relativly safe areas, or in limited use through grey space (it would have to hope that it could slip through unnoticed, or at least that the pirat(s) slip up and it can escape).
*here i mean weapons as in ship-to-ship weappnry sutable for destroying a pirat ship, as opposed to small arms sutable for defending the ship in boarding action.
agreed, except for this part:
"As far as the moth is concerned, No ship should be without weapons, it's just silly. Do you think cargo ships floating in our oceans have no weapons? The space shuttle? of course they do. Especially around pirates who kill for sport."
i'm fairly certain that most civilian transports (oil tankers, cruse ships, trash barges, 747s, ferries, research ships, etc) don't carry weapons* (i may be wrong about the oil tankers) i am however certain that the space shuttle does not.
and i don't care one way or the other about the drain (except that the moth should have the ability to make it out to jump range without having to recharge with some battery, i don't care which one)
"Even if the moth is the equivalent of a 1 ton pickup truck, (a fairly small cargo hauler compared to a semi or a freight train) it should be in danger if its in a dangerous area."
-Spellcast
also agreed. now with that established, the moth doesn't need to be slower, it needs to have less armor (making it more killable by a lone pirat) thereby increasing the danger of flying a moth through pirat teretory without reducing it's desierability as a large cargo shuttle for use in relativly safe areas, or in limited use through grey space (it would have to hope that it could slip through unnoticed, or at least that the pirat(s) slip up and it can escape).
*here i mean weapons as in ship-to-ship weappnry sutable for destroying a pirat ship, as opposed to small arms sutable for defending the ship in boarding action.
mellowvision, we don't need more Behemoth usage, we need less. more 'moths variants will kill off *any* hope of us seeing other ships used for trade.
as for the speed / armor debate on 'moths, I'm still as soundly in the "reduce speed" camp as Lord Q is in the "reduce armor" camp. I don't see a reduction in armor achieve anything but making it a race and making it impossible to defend the moth for anyone trying to assist it.
as for the speed / armor debate on 'moths, I'm still as soundly in the "reduce speed" camp as Lord Q is in the "reduce armor" camp. I don't see a reduction in armor achieve anything but making it a race and making it impossible to defend the moth for anyone trying to assist it.
THe space shuttle has AGTs??
I think slower moving means you spend more time in a sector getting to the worm hole or the 3000m range, It also means that pirates are given more time to find you and attack. You have tje extra armor on your moth so if you can dodge some of the shots you can still escape and arrive at the station in the battle scarred remains of your ship. More speed sucks. I have tried out a few dev shpis that go uber fast and while at first it seems fun, battles are boring. you wiz by each other and it's more like jousting.
The maud and the atlas should have more functionality in the game. If the moths are slower, it may encourage a trader to take a faster maud to do a run where there is threat of pirate attacks. I have also heard that the Atlas can be a very useful ship if you want to be a trader/warrior.
I think slower moving means you spend more time in a sector getting to the worm hole or the 3000m range, It also means that pirates are given more time to find you and attack. You have tje extra armor on your moth so if you can dodge some of the shots you can still escape and arrive at the station in the battle scarred remains of your ship. More speed sucks. I have tried out a few dev shpis that go uber fast and while at first it seems fun, battles are boring. you wiz by each other and it's more like jousting.
The maud and the atlas should have more functionality in the game. If the moths are slower, it may encourage a trader to take a faster maud to do a run where there is threat of pirate attacks. I have also heard that the Atlas can be a very useful ship if you want to be a trader/warrior.
why should you have to trade in such small quantities if you have the money and experience to trade in bulk?
The space shuttle doesn't carry any weapons. Neither do most tankers (besides a couple assault rifles, or something) because nearly all large weapons are: very old, expensive, and probably restricted from sale to private owners.
Yes, piracy in this modern day and age is still a thriving trade.
People pirate in Sedina B-8 because it is a choke point. Look at the map, there are Ukari is connected to three systems, Latos is connected to three systems. This means that if pirates blockade one wormhole, the traders can simply go around. But when you get to Sedina, you're only connected to two systems, Latos and Odia. Once entering Sedina, one can only head on to Odia, back to Latos, or to stations within Sedina. By stationing themselves in Sedina B-8, pirates can be sure to encounter traders headed for any one of those things. If they tried to blockade Latos O-12, traders headed for Odia would see the blockade, and run for Latos H-2 and Azek. But upon entering Sedina from Latos, traders have no choice but to run from pirates sitting in or near the wormhole, or try to go back to Latos.
But in regards to changes to the Behemoth, I'm all for them. I chased Ghostwolff around Sedina B-8 for a long time (I dunno... 10 minutes, maybe?) in my missile rag and rarely caught up with him, and when I did, he could change directions and accelerate far quicker than I could. That, and my missiles couldn't catch him if he started boosting away (possibly tossing swarms over his shoulder). I mean, I know that the Rag isn't meant for chasing down other players, but the moth was completely out accelerating me, and he weighed over 10000kg more than I did (that, and his shots were doing a lot more damage to me than mine were to him).
So on top of changes to the Behemoth, we need changes to missiles. Oddly enough, I remember someone posting a really awesome set of changes to missiles. Chaser missiles that travel fast and are hard to aim. Swarm missiles requiring target lock before firing. Who was that again?...
Yes, piracy in this modern day and age is still a thriving trade.
People pirate in Sedina B-8 because it is a choke point. Look at the map, there are Ukari is connected to three systems, Latos is connected to three systems. This means that if pirates blockade one wormhole, the traders can simply go around. But when you get to Sedina, you're only connected to two systems, Latos and Odia. Once entering Sedina, one can only head on to Odia, back to Latos, or to stations within Sedina. By stationing themselves in Sedina B-8, pirates can be sure to encounter traders headed for any one of those things. If they tried to blockade Latos O-12, traders headed for Odia would see the blockade, and run for Latos H-2 and Azek. But upon entering Sedina from Latos, traders have no choice but to run from pirates sitting in or near the wormhole, or try to go back to Latos.
But in regards to changes to the Behemoth, I'm all for them. I chased Ghostwolff around Sedina B-8 for a long time (I dunno... 10 minutes, maybe?) in my missile rag and rarely caught up with him, and when I did, he could change directions and accelerate far quicker than I could. That, and my missiles couldn't catch him if he started boosting away (possibly tossing swarms over his shoulder). I mean, I know that the Rag isn't meant for chasing down other players, but the moth was completely out accelerating me, and he weighed over 10000kg more than I did (that, and his shots were doing a lot more damage to me than mine were to him).
So on top of changes to the Behemoth, we need changes to missiles. Oddly enough, I remember someone posting a really awesome set of changes to missiles. Chaser missiles that travel fast and are hard to aim. Swarm missiles requiring target lock before firing. Who was that again?...
- CP, remember though, that was an empty moth, and Ghostwolf definitely wasn't using it for trading or carrying cargo.
Well I was in an empty Ragnarok. I can't carry nearly as much cargo as Ghostwolff, but the fact that his thrust to weight ratio was higher than mine when turboing meant that he reached his top speed of 180 long before I reached 180, and he could change directions faster. So unless he travelled on turbo for a long time and let me go above 180, I would never be able to catch up with him.
THIS is precisely why people are complaining about the moth's speed and weapons. An empty moth is a tremendously effective missile platform. It has the turbo thrust to make it more maneuverable than the ragnarok, it can absorb a lot of damage, and with the two L ports, it can unload a lot of swarms at any smaller fighter who tries to catch it. It can easily take damage from an IBG as long as it gets one opportunity to fire its missiles at the IBG and either force the IBG to disengage to evade the missiles, or simply destroy it in one salvo.
As a trade ship, it goes far beyond the call of duty. I was doing a trade mission (Latos to Nyrius, IIRC) once, and on my return trip, a guide who I'm friends with, as a joke, spawned a bunch of assaults in the sector. If I were in a fighter (which I'm pretty sure he thought I was), I would have run or killed them. As it was, I was going to run in the moth, but as I had just pressed "t" before, my desperate attempts to maneuver or turbo were thwarted and I was killed. In apology, he warped me to my pickup station, I got more cargo, and finished the return trip with a lot of time to spare.
The moth could afford to lose a couple of m/s of top turbo speed because it can take the damage from bots or other players, and in the event that someone does decide to use the moth in ways that it's not intended (like as a heavy missile platform) they'll be slow enough to catch, or at least be driven off.
THIS is precisely why people are complaining about the moth's speed and weapons. An empty moth is a tremendously effective missile platform. It has the turbo thrust to make it more maneuverable than the ragnarok, it can absorb a lot of damage, and with the two L ports, it can unload a lot of swarms at any smaller fighter who tries to catch it. It can easily take damage from an IBG as long as it gets one opportunity to fire its missiles at the IBG and either force the IBG to disengage to evade the missiles, or simply destroy it in one salvo.
As a trade ship, it goes far beyond the call of duty. I was doing a trade mission (Latos to Nyrius, IIRC) once, and on my return trip, a guide who I'm friends with, as a joke, spawned a bunch of assaults in the sector. If I were in a fighter (which I'm pretty sure he thought I was), I would have run or killed them. As it was, I was going to run in the moth, but as I had just pressed "t" before, my desperate attempts to maneuver or turbo were thwarted and I was killed. In apology, he warped me to my pickup station, I got more cargo, and finished the return trip with a lot of time to spare.
The moth could afford to lose a couple of m/s of top turbo speed because it can take the damage from bots or other players, and in the event that someone does decide to use the moth in ways that it's not intended (like as a heavy missile platform) they'll be slow enough to catch, or at least be driven off.
the Behemoth doesn't need to be armed IMO, and honestly if it must be armed i'd say it should have S ports instead of L ports. and is everyone still wants their mines than why not make mines S weapons. that way the moth can carry S weaponry, or mines, but can't become a heavy weapons platform as it's far to unmanuverable to abuse weapons like flairs. and S sized seeking missies are far less devestating than swarms.
because mines on a valk are so open to abuse...
Chikira,
Don't change the base speed.
Just make the mass exponentially higher.
Don't change the base speed.
Just make the mass exponentially higher.
<trollspeak>nerf teh game!</trollspeak>
>because mines on a valk are so open to abuse...
um, you're kidding right?
maybe lightning mines, but well, i just can't see mines being more abusable than flares on the whole.
um, you're kidding right?
maybe lightning mines, but well, i just can't see mines being more abusable than flares on the whole.
flares won't detonate easilly at 20 m distance, mines will.
so don't fly within 20 meters of valks
So don't fly at all.