Forums » Suggestions
"Just wait until we have 500-600 people online"
posted by Phaserlight
Does anyone really believe that anymore? Like, believe that it will happen in our lifetimes?
If guild continues the current pace of development, we will see a "finished game" in a few years. It's not their fault. They're giving it their all. But unless something drastically changes, Vendetta is going to be another Jumpgate with 40-60 people online until it eventually closes shop.
I keep playing, off and on, and I try to keep my account active. Arguing about the balance of the game based on 1v1s always makes me cringe, but then I realize that, well, trying to balance it for more people is meaningless when this is what we're probably going to have into forever.
I just hope that someday an update won't be a tiny increment of change, the devs will say, "Go forth and advertise!" and people will come. Gonna happen? Nah. I can dream, though.
posted by Phaserlight
Does anyone really believe that anymore? Like, believe that it will happen in our lifetimes?
If guild continues the current pace of development, we will see a "finished game" in a few years. It's not their fault. They're giving it their all. But unless something drastically changes, Vendetta is going to be another Jumpgate with 40-60 people online until it eventually closes shop.
I keep playing, off and on, and I try to keep my account active. Arguing about the balance of the game based on 1v1s always makes me cringe, but then I realize that, well, trying to balance it for more people is meaningless when this is what we're probably going to have into forever.
I just hope that someday an update won't be a tiny increment of change, the devs will say, "Go forth and advertise!" and people will come. Gonna happen? Nah. I can dream, though.
blah blah blah blah........
shut up.
Your somber attitude is directly linked to your unawareness of the intensity and excitement derived from TUBE RACING!!!!!!!!!
Bunch a' noobs.
shut up.
Your somber attitude is directly linked to your unawareness of the intensity and excitement derived from TUBE RACING!!!!!!!!!
Bunch a' noobs.
I know people are frustrated with what appears to be a lack of progress, but the ramifications of what is really happening behind-the-scenes is huge. I won't bore you with ancient history, but know simply that VO is finally cutting itself loose from it's hard-coded tech demo foundations. The tools that would have been built for a production-level game are being built right now. As they are completed, things that used to take weeks of development will soon take days - or less - and with considerably less opportunity for bugs. Its still going to be a little rough initially because the different tools will need to interact, and they can't fully interact if some of the tools don't exist yet.
[rudeness deleted]
Re: Starfisher.
Yeah, course I do. The gaming market in the US alone is huge and we have people connecting to VO all the way from Germany, France, UK and where have you. Just look at Adventure Quest; ( http://www.battleon.com ) a simple, crappy 2D cell shaded generic web browser RPG. 9,000 players online simultaenously! I think VO can do 5% (~500) as well as Adventure Quest, don't you?
Also, take a look at this article:
http://lostgarden.com/2005/10/game-business-model-learning-from.html
VO definitely fits the profile of a village game, and it's only been in development for a little over a year (not counting the network test). The devs haven't even reached the "break even" point much less "payback" if that buisiness model is to be believed, and supposedly it is a successful one.
I also find it interesting that the standard development cost of a village game is almost exactly how much Incarnate said he spent on getting VO on its feet.
Re: Lecter.
Anyone who says tube racing sucks hasn't bus raced with 5 other people. It's a blast :P
Yeah, course I do. The gaming market in the US alone is huge and we have people connecting to VO all the way from Germany, France, UK and where have you. Just look at Adventure Quest; ( http://www.battleon.com ) a simple, crappy 2D cell shaded generic web browser RPG. 9,000 players online simultaenously! I think VO can do 5% (~500) as well as Adventure Quest, don't you?
Also, take a look at this article:
http://lostgarden.com/2005/10/game-business-model-learning-from.html
VO definitely fits the profile of a village game, and it's only been in development for a little over a year (not counting the network test). The devs haven't even reached the "break even" point much less "payback" if that buisiness model is to be believed, and supposedly it is a successful one.
I also find it interesting that the standard development cost of a village game is almost exactly how much Incarnate said he spent on getting VO on its feet.
Re: Lecter.
Anyone who says tube racing sucks hasn't bus raced with 5 other people. It's a blast :P
FM: Yes. I know. I read the news too :/
Ufortunately, I also understand that building production tools takes a long, long time. I am frustrated that content releases have essentially stopped, but I'm not basing my analysis on that. I don't know how far along they are on making, say, a ship-editing interface or a mission editor, but I do know they just got their first release of a new AI out. It has bugs. They'll take some time and fix them, then everything will go quiety for another few months and the next big thing will come out, and it will have bugs. They'll fix them, one or two will arise that conflict with the AI, and they'll fix that, and so forth.
That's just the way software development goes. Big companies with seperate art, marketing, management and programming departments take years to get from where Vendetta is now to something they're willing to market. Is Guild any different?
Phaser: No, I don't. A crappy generic shell shaded 2D RPG is far more accessible than this game, which is what this thread is all about. The combat is too fast, the other things to do too unrewarding for the average gamer. This game combines the twitch requirements of Korean Starcraft with the leveling requirements of DiabloII capped at 14.
We're a small community because only a small number of people like that. Remember when the game first came out? 100 simultaneous players! Huzzah! Then they all got on the boards and spammed about how the game was terrible and they didn't like the flight model and yadda yadda yadda, and left.
Take an honest look at where we are now compared to where we were at release.
I'm not saying Vendetta is going down in flames. It's obviously still kicking, and has a dedicated core that isn't going anywhere. But this assertion that someday we'll have 500 people connected... I just don't see it. Jumpgate is the closest analog to this game, and it never ever took off, despite an organized underground marketing campaign.
I want this game to succeed, but what "faith in the devs" I had is long gone. They're human too. There's nothing magic about Vendetta. Best we can do is keep paying our subscriptions.
Ufortunately, I also understand that building production tools takes a long, long time. I am frustrated that content releases have essentially stopped, but I'm not basing my analysis on that. I don't know how far along they are on making, say, a ship-editing interface or a mission editor, but I do know they just got their first release of a new AI out. It has bugs. They'll take some time and fix them, then everything will go quiety for another few months and the next big thing will come out, and it will have bugs. They'll fix them, one or two will arise that conflict with the AI, and they'll fix that, and so forth.
That's just the way software development goes. Big companies with seperate art, marketing, management and programming departments take years to get from where Vendetta is now to something they're willing to market. Is Guild any different?
Phaser: No, I don't. A crappy generic shell shaded 2D RPG is far more accessible than this game, which is what this thread is all about. The combat is too fast, the other things to do too unrewarding for the average gamer. This game combines the twitch requirements of Korean Starcraft with the leveling requirements of DiabloII capped at 14.
We're a small community because only a small number of people like that. Remember when the game first came out? 100 simultaneous players! Huzzah! Then they all got on the boards and spammed about how the game was terrible and they didn't like the flight model and yadda yadda yadda, and left.
Take an honest look at where we are now compared to where we were at release.
I'm not saying Vendetta is going down in flames. It's obviously still kicking, and has a dedicated core that isn't going anywhere. But this assertion that someday we'll have 500 people connected... I just don't see it. Jumpgate is the closest analog to this game, and it never ever took off, despite an organized underground marketing campaign.
I want this game to succeed, but what "faith in the devs" I had is long gone. They're human too. There's nothing magic about Vendetta. Best we can do is keep paying our subscriptions.
I think it's really a question of entropy. The VO universe has a very high state of entropy (everything is the same no matter where you go, players look the same, items are the same) and consequently there's not much incentive to spend a lot of time in game exploring or getting stuff. Sure I can spend 10 hours to level up, but so can every other joe. The only thing that distinguishes players are their natural abilities, and that only applies to the truly hardcore.
The VO test really is a multiplayer arcade game, it has about 30 seconds of fun gameplay. But that's all you need, if the devs can take that 30 seconds of fun and apply it to content then I think they'll have a winner on their hands.
And by content I mean unique areas, unique items, unique quests... anything to diminish the entropy of the VO universe... and that is where the devs are going I think.
Once I'm able to find/craft the only existing Gauss mkIII in game, take over and run my own station, explore the bombed out relic of a superfreighter, or actually have a tangible influence on the border war, that will be an incentive to spend more time in game.
The VO test really is a multiplayer arcade game, it has about 30 seconds of fun gameplay. But that's all you need, if the devs can take that 30 seconds of fun and apply it to content then I think they'll have a winner on their hands.
And by content I mean unique areas, unique items, unique quests... anything to diminish the entropy of the VO universe... and that is where the devs are going I think.
Once I'm able to find/craft the only existing Gauss mkIII in game, take over and run my own station, explore the bombed out relic of a superfreighter, or actually have a tangible influence on the border war, that will be an incentive to spend more time in game.
> A crappy generic shell shaded 2D RPG is far more accessible than this game, which is what this thread is all about.
Objection, assumes facts not in evidence.
PS: I was really hoping someone would come up with something smarter than cunjo's drivel, which is why I haven't posted in a while, but sadly it seems that the only way the community could get two brain cells to rub together is draining the contents of everyone's heads into a jar.
Sadly this means that when I get around to typing a response, which I will get to eventually, it'll have to be on a similar level. If any brave soul wants to try and outsmart cunjo before I start typing, please do.
Objection, assumes facts not in evidence.
PS: I was really hoping someone would come up with something smarter than cunjo's drivel, which is why I haven't posted in a while, but sadly it seems that the only way the community could get two brain cells to rub together is draining the contents of everyone's heads into a jar.
Sadly this means that when I get around to typing a response, which I will get to eventually, it'll have to be on a similar level. If any brave soul wants to try and outsmart cunjo before I start typing, please do.
genka: Facts not in evidence? Fact: This game is hard to get into. Fact: 2D rpgs are easy to get into. Conclusion: Vendetta is less accessible than that game.
Unless you mean this thread isn't about the game in general, of which accessibility is a subset.
Unless you mean this thread isn't about the game in general, of which accessibility is a subset.
you're forgetting the most important one...
FACT: Adventure Quest is FREE.
Free games attract huge playerbases, because they're FREE, and since nobody ever has to pay for them, you find THOUDDSANDS of cheap people with no lives playing them. They tell all their friends about it, and their friends start playing and tell their friends, and soon everybody knows about it and is playing it. So what if it's crappy? it's free!
if they started charging $10 a month for Adventure Quest, the playerbase would plummet. Perhaps not to as few players as VO currently has, but only because there are already 40,000 people who know about Adventure Quest and are addicted to it.
genka:
you just don't know when to give up do you?
.
Everyone place bets now - I've got 1,000 cr here which says whatever response Genka comes up with won't be nearly as intelligent or reasonable as the post he's trying to overcome.
FACT: Adventure Quest is FREE.
Free games attract huge playerbases, because they're FREE, and since nobody ever has to pay for them, you find THOUDDSANDS of cheap people with no lives playing them. They tell all their friends about it, and their friends start playing and tell their friends, and soon everybody knows about it and is playing it. So what if it's crappy? it's free!
if they started charging $10 a month for Adventure Quest, the playerbase would plummet. Perhaps not to as few players as VO currently has, but only because there are already 40,000 people who know about Adventure Quest and are addicted to it.
genka:
you just don't know when to give up do you?
.
Everyone place bets now - I've got 1,000 cr here which says whatever response Genka comes up with won't be nearly as intelligent or reasonable as the post he's trying to overcome.
I've got 100,000,000cr That says Dr. Lecter will never be able to beat my records in the tubes.
[Flamey rude post deleted - edits were having no impact]
(Please email Incarnate with concerns, if any)
(Please email Incarnate with concerns, if any)
You're welcome, and that works for me. The general rudeness level has been on the rise and clearly something else needs to be done.
Umm, this is on topic because we're enabling the community to express itself um...effectively and appropriately?
Umm, this is on topic because we're enabling the community to express itself um...effectively and appropriately?
Cunjo: Adventure Quest isn't free. If you want to log on when there are more than 5,000 people online (which is like, always) you have to be a paying customer. True, it's only a one time fee of 15$ so it's a lot cheaper than VO, but it's not free. And I think the fact that there are at least 3000-4000 people online at any given time who payed for a web browser coffee-break RPG says something about the gaming industry.
Yes, that stat based RPGs with no physical skill needed are incredibly popular and addictive.
ha.
I was joking about the noob thing.
Besides isn't smack talk tolerated on a minimal level?
Calling Dr. Lecter a noob was supposed to be an obvious sarcastic remark in which 93% of the community could enjoy in understanding the obvious sarcasm.
But hey, I'll keep it PG for the "real" noobies.
And just wondering..... Not that I mind profanity buuuut how was what I said more rude than *points finger and giggles* that.
"YOU FUCKED UP.
Thanks to the genius move you kept trying to avoid, combat now consists of holding on for dear life, picking a favored dodge pattern and spamming as many shots as possible. While it is true some players manage to fit some actual thinking into the fight, it's usually of the "oh, he's got gats, I better hold my strafe buttons a bit longer" variety, and the ones that are quick enough for that tend to be maybe four in a hundred, the freaks born with unnaturally fast reaction time."
And I quote somebody famous.
"A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day."
[FM replies: Ya I'm not going to go back and edit or delete every possible thing. It's my job to manage the website community, and it's my opinion that things have gotten rather rude in general lately. It's not actually profanity that is a problem (though keeping it to a minimum would be good, since we don't have a filter here) but rudeness and flames directed at users.]
I was joking about the noob thing.
Besides isn't smack talk tolerated on a minimal level?
Calling Dr. Lecter a noob was supposed to be an obvious sarcastic remark in which 93% of the community could enjoy in understanding the obvious sarcasm.
But hey, I'll keep it PG for the "real" noobies.
And just wondering..... Not that I mind profanity buuuut how was what I said more rude than *points finger and giggles* that.
"YOU FUCKED UP.
Thanks to the genius move you kept trying to avoid, combat now consists of holding on for dear life, picking a favored dodge pattern and spamming as many shots as possible. While it is true some players manage to fit some actual thinking into the fight, it's usually of the "oh, he's got gats, I better hold my strafe buttons a bit longer" variety, and the ones that are quick enough for that tend to be maybe four in a hundred, the freaks born with unnaturally fast reaction time."
And I quote somebody famous.
"A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day."
[FM replies: Ya I'm not going to go back and edit or delete every possible thing. It's my job to manage the website community, and it's my opinion that things have gotten rather rude in general lately. It's not actually profanity that is a problem (though keeping it to a minimum would be good, since we don't have a filter here) but rudeness and flames directed at users.]
You're forgetting one thing about Adventure Quest.
It has advertising coming out of every possible metaphorical bodily orifice. Vendetta does not, and I pray to god it won't end up being too little too late. I think its definitely possible for the playerbase to explode, but the targets have to be big. Penny Arcade, Fark, Slashdot, Something Awful and the like. If the right person with high stance in communities like those starts a love affair with Vendetta, 500-600 players online will become a reality.
However, its still not ready, its taken a long time to get to this point. But if what I understand is true- that the tools are being built to send the content development into overdrive come new year- then I think some people are being overly pessimistic.
It has advertising coming out of every possible metaphorical bodily orifice. Vendetta does not, and I pray to god it won't end up being too little too late. I think its definitely possible for the playerbase to explode, but the targets have to be big. Penny Arcade, Fark, Slashdot, Something Awful and the like. If the right person with high stance in communities like those starts a love affair with Vendetta, 500-600 players online will become a reality.
However, its still not ready, its taken a long time to get to this point. But if what I understand is true- that the tools are being built to send the content development into overdrive come new year- then I think some people are being overly pessimistic.
Assuming Vendetta gets to the point that most of us agree with the "time to advertise" line, I am sure there are committed community members who will be more than happy to dump VO stuff on Wikipedia and Slashdot at least. ;)
Back on topic.....
I think VO will be ready for advertisement once we get:
20 more missions. (atleast)
Nation specific caps.
Twice as many player ships (yea just forget about this one).
The Hive fully active and independent.
Mostly the missions need to be in place for noobs to get skills so they don't get pwned by the vets. (cause there's QUITE a gap)
I think VO will be ready for advertisement once we get:
20 more missions. (atleast)
Nation specific caps.
Twice as many player ships (yea just forget about this one).
The Hive fully active and independent.
Mostly the missions need to be in place for noobs to get skills so they don't get pwned by the vets. (cause there's QUITE a gap)
Add to that list,
Guild owned/guild run stations
Dynamic border war
Universe points of interest
Two things players look for in an MMO are immersion and permanence i.e. the ability to have a lasting and tangible effect in a rich, evocative universe. A reason to spend more time in game.
I think the missions will fall into place once we have the dynamic hive hammered out. The border war will fall into place when we have player cap ships, for which we need the new UI.
Here's a thread on guild turf and economic warfare:
http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/11684
Here's a thread which includes how the dynamic border war might work:
http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/6352
For a "points of interest" think tank, hop on over to this thread:
http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/12131
And of course who could forget this thread, an EPIC discussion on crafting which also includes player built/owned stations:
http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/11406
Not all of these are necessary for a successful mmo imo (ha) as long as you have a reason for players to spend time in game. And a good way to do that is to give them some way to build, work as a team, and provide a sense of ownership/accomplishment.
I'd say we prolly have at least another year to go before VO is "ready"
A quick aside on missions, I don't believe "storyline" missions ala WoW are necessary in VO (although the devs are talented writers). I'd much rather see player designated missions that are tied to the dynamic economy, player run stations, and the dynamic border war. (And yes, newbs could help out with all of these)
Guild owned/guild run stations
Dynamic border war
Universe points of interest
Two things players look for in an MMO are immersion and permanence i.e. the ability to have a lasting and tangible effect in a rich, evocative universe. A reason to spend more time in game.
I think the missions will fall into place once we have the dynamic hive hammered out. The border war will fall into place when we have player cap ships, for which we need the new UI.
Here's a thread on guild turf and economic warfare:
http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/11684
Here's a thread which includes how the dynamic border war might work:
http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/6352
For a "points of interest" think tank, hop on over to this thread:
http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/12131
And of course who could forget this thread, an EPIC discussion on crafting which also includes player built/owned stations:
http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/11406
Not all of these are necessary for a successful mmo imo (ha) as long as you have a reason for players to spend time in game. And a good way to do that is to give them some way to build, work as a team, and provide a sense of ownership/accomplishment.
I'd say we prolly have at least another year to go before VO is "ready"
A quick aside on missions, I don't believe "storyline" missions ala WoW are necessary in VO (although the devs are talented writers). I'd much rather see player designated missions that are tied to the dynamic economy, player run stations, and the dynamic border war. (And yes, newbs could help out with all of these)