Wow BoxCarRacer EXCELLENT POINT.

I mean, it's not like I said "This combat-is-now-a-race-for-equipment shit is probably the one thing that pisses me off the most." a few posts back...
That'd be just STUPID.

One word comes to mind that should solve your prob, there, Genka:

Asteroids

No mining, no trading, no level-building.

Dr. Lecter,

1, i tried several ships that night (including a mega-posi hog, and a tri-rail rag), the hog didn't work well so i moved on, and you bitched about the fact that i used one volly of swarms to finish you off after a number of rail hits).

2. i alternated between forward and revers power as needed to maintain the distance at which i wanted to fight. (getting too close to an AGT hog is stupid) and while you were flying that spam rag of yours (you claim it was a tri-rail as well but i don't remember ever being hit by any rail-fire, it may well have had them i don't know), i generaly pressed the attack except when i had to evade the swarms.

3. i fired more gause shots than i would have liked because i had touble getteing a good line of fire. and no, i was not firing them as fast as my battery would allow, i was firing them as often as i had a shot that seemed lined up (most weren't but well, that's why i died). when fighting your rail hornet i had to fly more eraticly than i usualy do because i couldn't use the stream of weponfire as a guide, thus i resorted to the "use you favort dodge pattern" tactics because i had to keep moving, and couldn't use your weaponsfire as a guide because by the time i see rails it's too late to dodge them.

4. you started most of those fights so don't complain about my tactics, especialy given the number of times i've seen you station camp, and peck and run because you decided you wanted to.

and finaly i don't think that there is anything wrong with some equipment being unavailable to low level chararters, and realisticly most of the competitive equipmant can be purchased by 4th level combat, and everything else levels fairly quickly.

i'll agree that there should be more ways for combat players to not have to trade, and for traders to not have to hunt bots, but the mission system is still in it's infantsy.

500 troll points to Genka - congrats, you're our new King Troll.

Okay, for one, if you don't like mining and Trading, for God's sake, don't do it! last I checked, the game didn't force you into a mining ship with a mining beam and make you mine or perish. and if you don't do it, wtf are you complaining about?? I would have thought that you, of all people, would appreciate newb miners to shoot at.

TRADING AND MINING ARE NOT - let me repeat - ARE NOT hurting you. If the newbs want to trade and mine, by God, LET THEM. Or shoot them, whichever you fancy. Just DON'T COMPLAIN ABOUT CONTENT. (and yes, trading and mining is CONTENT. Content = good. Thank you.

oh, and I really love this one:
>>"This combat-is-now-a-race-for-equipment shit is probably the one thing that pisses me off the most. Whereas I used to tell newbs that "levels don't really mean much in terms of combat" I now realize it's a pathetic, dirty lie. That makes me sad."<<

Let's debunk this stupidity, shall we?
1) You can get the lightest, fastest ship/weapon combo in the game, at combat level 1. LEVEL 1! You can reach combat 1 in under fifteen minutes if you know what you're doing, and if anything, it SHOULD TAKE LONGER than that for the newbs, who need the time to learn how to fly before attempting to become the elite of the elite in their IBGs.

2) I could beat up a fucking SCP in an IBG with a pair of phaser IIs. so at 1/2/0/0/0, it's possible to beat a ship which becomes available at 9/6/10/1/0, and you're trying to tell me that having these light ships fast is making it all about the levels?? Can't you see that this is the way it's supposed to be?

Sure, more advanced players can take advantage of superior technology (like AAPs, sunflares, etc...) but having the lower-level light ships able to evade them is a GOOD thing, not bad.

Likewise, needing to adapt and change your tactics to fight a light is a GOOD thing. As BCR pointed out, there are ways of booming cents. They're not some uber-powered unbeatable ship-that-makes-a-pilot. AND NEITHER ARE THE HOGS THAT BOOM THEM.

We just can't make you people happy can we? If we use a heavy ship, you complain that it kills things too quickly, and if we use a light to draw out the fight, you complain that you can't kill it fast enough. you bloody ingreats.

<sarcasm>I suppose we should remove all ships and wepons from the game except the bus and plascannon, so that everyone, including the newbs will be able to fight in perfectly even matches, right? I mean, variety is THE ENEMY! </sarcasm>

and do you know what the number-one complaint of newbs is?
That things move too slow. That's right. TOO SLOW. I've brought a number of people into this game, only to have them leave, because they thought the ships were too slow, and as such too boring. do we really need to make them slower?

The system aint broke, DON'T FIX IT.

now go crawl back under your bridge you filthy troll.

Is this some sort of joke?
I mean, sure I expected SOMEONE to disagree with me, but I was rather hoping that person would have at least two brain cells to rub together.

In fact, the more I think about it, the more I think that Cunjo's trying to make any possible opponent of mine look stupid by associating his own brainless drivel with theirs. Then again, we should keep in mind that I'm an embarrassment to the fur community.

Dunno, Genka. It's hard to disagree with things that people already have been talking about for a long time (in those threads that you troll a lot, remember?), and basically have all their disagreements thrashed out.

I can try harder to disagree I suppose. Let's see, how about saying that mining is boring is really unfair? Sure, the act of mining might be boring, but some people enjoy prospecting for roids. There is no accounting for taste.

There, happy now?

"This combat-is-now-a-race-for-equipment shit is probably the one thing that pisses me off the most."

hahahaha

What race?

hahahahaha

Seriously though, you can get all the equipment in the game within the first week of gameplay (equipment used for combat.... maud level 13 trade doesn't count stinky butt)

So what's your problem?
Dentek's a lil too tough?
/msg me in game I'll help ya learn strafe's.

Genka believes strafing should be removed too.

"FA on and wiggle your nose"

TRADING AND MINING ARE NOT - let me repeat - ARE NOT hurting you. If the newbs want to trade and mine, by God, LET THEM. Or shoot them, whichever you fancy. Just DON'T COMPLAIN ABOUT CONTENT. (and yes, trading and mining is CONTENT. Content = good. Thank you.

Thank you! I'm glad someone said it.

I'll tell you why mining is a good thing... it gets people into asteroid fields. If it weren't for mining, there would be no reason to interact with VO's terrain.

I also think you may be blowing this just a little out of proportion genka. True, it may be hard to find a miner, but there are only 40 people on. Also, just because you consider it boring doesn't mean it should be taken out of the game. Sure you might call it a "carebear" activity but I happen to know some people enjoy it.

Just wait until we have 500-600 people online, and for now... knock yourself out with the convoys.

>>"I mean, sure I expected SOMEONE to disagree with me, but I was rather hoping that person would have at least two brain cells to rub together.

In fact, the more I think about it, the more I think that Cunjo's trying to make any possible opponent of mine look stupid by associating his own brainless drivel with theirs. Then again, we should keep in mind that I'm an embarrassment to the fur community."<<

This from someone who is clearly a few neurons short of a functional synapse...
Genka, you're an embarrassment to every bipedal lifeform on the planet... or are you quadrapedal? doesn't matter... you're an embarassment to them too.

really, this topic is too funny.

I think it really all depends on what you see the game as genka. If it's purely a space shooter then yes, there is no real point to mining or trading, just give each kill a monetary value and there is no need to trade for money or mining for it either. If the game is to become something more then that, like an rpg with space quake built in, then having a crafting system is vital, and part of a crafting system is the process of gathering your resources. That is what mining was intended to be and has taken the devs WAY TO LONG in implementing the rest of the system. Why, because everyone wants cap ships. To get cap ships they needed to redue half the game basically, the UI and the Deliverator and new Cap Ship models, new pathing for more bots to attack, etc. Once a true crafting system is implemented, trade and mining will have a better purpose in game. Plus not everyone wants to be a stick jocky, at least not all of the time.

As for the speed of combat, if everything is the same speed then why not just have one ship design. Having said that, I could see an across the board reduction of speed, but that does not eliminate the problem, just slows everything down. Big ships should be slower then small ships, Cents and Vults should be able to fly circles around rags and proms and hornets.

Skill not mattering any more? That is a bunch of bull, I've seen plenty of people that got powerleveled with the BP/Crackbotting that had high levels and sucked at combat, regardless of equipment. It is true though that the game IS about equipment but it takes skill to use the equipment correctly.

Having said all this I too have become somewhat fed up with the game as well, with promises that are delayed and delayed and delayed, but what can we really expect from 4 guys in a room? They're doing what they can as fast as they can. Take a break!!

"I'll tell you why mining is a good thing... it gets people into asteroid fields. If it weren't for mining, there would be no reason to interact with VO's terrain."

Whaaaaaaaaaaat?

Who cares about interacting with some graphical 1's and 0's. Interaction with players is much more important as genka so eloquently said.

[edit]
I mean SERIOUSLY!
If you mine from a roid does it make the roid feel all warm and fuzzy inside?
Roid01011 "I got mined today!"
Roid10010 "Damn your helio!"
Roid10010 "cries bitterly"
[/edit]

Hehehe...

No, seriously though, when was the last time you really explored anything while trading? All you're doing is trying to find the quickest way to get out 3k.

What motive is there to go out and explore those giant cracked ice asteroids you see off in the distance if not for mining? That's how I found that cool spot you see in the last shot of the vid I made. Later on this has the potential to turn into "dungeon" quests for specific ores; see if you can worm your way through the maze-like cracked asteroid to get to the 100% xith center!

Mining is also designed to be a social event, in the tips it tells you that mining an asteroid as a group will heat the roid more slowly than mining solo.

And when cap ships and crafting come around, miners are going to be in high demand to get all the requisite ores.

Genka seems to think that mining eclipses trading as a useful way to make money (I disagree). If this is the case, then let's add some higher end trade widgets that cost upwards of 2-3k a piece. If something is imbalanced, the right thing to do is balance it, not to say "screw it" and take it out of the game entirely.

genka other people have made the same points dozens of times.

wow, lots of long posts here.

/almostbumping

I think this is the funniest half-flame thread I've read in a while. Really, just too funny...

what a ridiculous thread.

really.

lack of content is the real problem:

(we need pvp missions, npc pirates, new weapons...)

Guild Softwares known and they are working on it

go read "work in progress" and "news"!

PS:
combat isn't fast!
slowing down ships won't change the problem.
stop your consensual duels and go to battles.

lol.
Yea but how many languages do you speak lecter?

Yea I was afraid you were gonna say that.

=D