Forums » Suggestions
I think the end result here, the ideal end result, would be to have epic space battles like in SWIII, with huge "Star Destroyers" (or whatever) basically focusing on other large ships, some medium ships hanging around in groups of strike forces, and then swarms of fighters flitting over the vast expanses of the larger ships.
That would rock.
That would rock.
Yeah, can you imagine two opposing carrier groups slowly closing from 10k, long range cannon fire occasionally flashing in the distance, wings of fighters screaming across the void between...
"Here they come!"
"Here they come!"
i evnvision the batles being more like Battlestar Galactica, where large numbers of fighters battle around a couple of capitle ships that try their best to balance getting their own weapons in range and trying to stay out of their oponents weapons range. and for the fighters getting too close to a cap ship mens almost certain doom, but for the cap ships contilious barages from bombers can be just as deadly as a full broadside from another capitle ship.
Yum. Capital ships are definitely one of the aspects this game has that will bind me to it for as long as it exists.
About the navigation/helm:
Maybe, to minimize carpal tunnel syndrome, it would be interesting to make another control variety available:
You press the button, and a slider of some kind, that indicates rather the rotational speed w (as a vector... the small 'omega' wouldn't register) the ship will try to reach, rather than the direction it will turn to (as it is with the fighters today). You can, of course, change the amplitude of the sliders at all time.
An interface I could envision would look something like this:
The current w and v of your ship, displayed as arrows, length for amplitude, and the desired w and v, in a different colour.
Joysticks would ome in handy, too, as they allow to continuously apply steering input without strain.
About the navigation/helm:
Maybe, to minimize carpal tunnel syndrome, it would be interesting to make another control variety available:
You press the button, and a slider of some kind, that indicates rather the rotational speed w (as a vector... the small 'omega' wouldn't register) the ship will try to reach, rather than the direction it will turn to (as it is with the fighters today). You can, of course, change the amplitude of the sliders at all time.
An interface I could envision would look something like this:
The current w and v of your ship, displayed as arrows, length for amplitude, and the desired w and v, in a different colour.
Joysticks would ome in handy, too, as they allow to continuously apply steering input without strain.
A while back somebody suggested an option to change the mouse control to work similar to a joystick, i.e. you move the mouse, stop moving the mouse, and your ship continues moving until you move the mouse back to the center. For slow moving ships like the Cap Ships are likely to be, that type of control would be nice.
http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/11355
http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/11355
Incarnate mentioned the HW-like 'map' he envisions. Perhaps the helmsman would benefit from this, too, if s/he could see the ship 'in the map', so that s/he could adjust for the no-entry zones.
Since the helm needs no radar, the space freed up by that could be used differently.
Since the helm needs no radar, the space freed up by that could be used differently.
Well, if it is available for the capship, pretty soon everyone will want it for the normal ships as well. Lazy folks like me would LOVE to be able to plot a course from Itan to Sedina, let the ship fly itself there, and then take over flight controls once I get there.
Especially miners & traders.
Do waypoints and/or a coordinate system have any place in this kind of nav system? Will this be open to abuse?
You could switch back and forth from "tactical" mode (the Homeworld-like nav interface) to the "immersion" mode (the normal VO nav interface)
The "tactical" mode would also give you some added functionality, like chatting and plotting navpoints. Like hitting "n" does now.
Especially miners & traders.
Do waypoints and/or a coordinate system have any place in this kind of nav system? Will this be open to abuse?
You could switch back and forth from "tactical" mode (the Homeworld-like nav interface) to the "immersion" mode (the normal VO nav interface)
The "tactical" mode would also give you some added functionality, like chatting and plotting navpoints. Like hitting "n" does now.
Of course everyone would want that. Question is, do they get it? It's not feasible for crafts that small to have an elaborate AI controlling everything, since all available space is used for a) engines, b) weapons, c) cargo and d) life support (the pilot squeezes in somewhere...).
Besides, autopilots have been developed by players, but to date, none really surfaced. I'm not sure, but that might be due to them not working.
Besides, autopilots have been developed by players, but to date, none really surfaced. I'm not sure, but that might be due to them not working.
Also, remember we're talking about plotting a course across a single sector, not several systems.
Very thankfully, making an autopilot that worked in the current universe would be extroadinarily difficuly. You'd either need to decrypt+decompress the game's location packets (difficult, time-consuming), or create pattern recognition imagery and use it to navigate your ship (difficult, time-consuming, has-a-chance-of-turning-into-an-evil-ai-and-taking-over-the-world)
Well, if SkyNet is inevitable, I want it to originate with VO.
Also, wouldn't decrypting the location quadruplets count as reverse engineering, and thereby violate the EULA?
/bumpity bump bump bump
Hopefully this is a new idea on how to control capital ships. I have dug deep to see if anything like has been proposed.
Reference Links
http://vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/12103
http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/11636#138664
In order for players to control capital ships a Homeworld style interface was proposed by the developers. I have another possible model that may be quicker to implement than a full 3D waypoint management screen. It might just be a pipe dream, or actually end up being totally unworkable, however I would like to put it forward for consideration anyway.
I call it camera waypoint setting. How this would work is the capital ships pilot would enter into the free camera style view. Using this view they would race around the sector invisible to all other players as they wouldn’t actually exist. They could move without hindrance at speeds well above what ships can do, but using the same first person views and controls ships currently do. The speeds could be configured by manually setting th cameras top speed, trust, weight, and rotational resistance so that each player could have the type of control they wanted. They could also select targets, and “jump” the camera to it. They would then race around the sector and whenever desired, the captain sets a waypoint for the capital ship to travel to based on the cameras X,Y,Z coordinates and direction.
They could potentially use this view to do all the fighter group target selection actions described above.
The client would then calculate the best way to maneuver the capital ship to the waypoint and move. I suspect the routines would be very similar to the AI’s finding storm exits and wormholes. The pilot could then move on and plot additional points with their free flying camera “ship”.
Potentially waypoints could be saved, so that a library of locations and positions could be developed and standard entry or attack pattern vectors could be developed. The option to save these way points as constants for specific X,Y,Z co-ordinates, or as relative to current position could be made available. In that way players could build sector specific navigation routes around sectors, as well as standard attack and defense patterns for use during combat.
Now I know that the saving of specific points and giving players access to X,Y,Z co-ordinates has been removed to prevent scripting abuses. ( http://www.vo-wiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Easter_Eggs#Hippos.21 http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/12275 http://vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/13980 )
So perhaps the sector specific navigation routes would/should not be possible. That said, with the 3000M possible entry point variance, at least recording the relative navigation routes should be possible without the risk of abuse.
Even if this is not, setting the waypoints on an as needed basis should be fairly simple to do from a free camera waypoint setting system, without requiring all the development overhead of a full fledged Homeworld 3D waypoint selection style system. It could get us in capital ships sooner, even if the eventual goal was still the Homeworld model.
It would also be useful as a mobile camera for filming battles and such.
http://vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/16226
Ok, poke holes in it.
Reference Links
http://vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/12103
http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/11636#138664
In order for players to control capital ships a Homeworld style interface was proposed by the developers. I have another possible model that may be quicker to implement than a full 3D waypoint management screen. It might just be a pipe dream, or actually end up being totally unworkable, however I would like to put it forward for consideration anyway.
I call it camera waypoint setting. How this would work is the capital ships pilot would enter into the free camera style view. Using this view they would race around the sector invisible to all other players as they wouldn’t actually exist. They could move without hindrance at speeds well above what ships can do, but using the same first person views and controls ships currently do. The speeds could be configured by manually setting th cameras top speed, trust, weight, and rotational resistance so that each player could have the type of control they wanted. They could also select targets, and “jump” the camera to it. They would then race around the sector and whenever desired, the captain sets a waypoint for the capital ship to travel to based on the cameras X,Y,Z coordinates and direction.
They could potentially use this view to do all the fighter group target selection actions described above.
The client would then calculate the best way to maneuver the capital ship to the waypoint and move. I suspect the routines would be very similar to the AI’s finding storm exits and wormholes. The pilot could then move on and plot additional points with their free flying camera “ship”.
Potentially waypoints could be saved, so that a library of locations and positions could be developed and standard entry or attack pattern vectors could be developed. The option to save these way points as constants for specific X,Y,Z co-ordinates, or as relative to current position could be made available. In that way players could build sector specific navigation routes around sectors, as well as standard attack and defense patterns for use during combat.
Now I know that the saving of specific points and giving players access to X,Y,Z co-ordinates has been removed to prevent scripting abuses. ( http://www.vo-wiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Easter_Eggs#Hippos.21 http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/12275 http://vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/13980 )
So perhaps the sector specific navigation routes would/should not be possible. That said, with the 3000M possible entry point variance, at least recording the relative navigation routes should be possible without the risk of abuse.
Even if this is not, setting the waypoints on an as needed basis should be fairly simple to do from a free camera waypoint setting system, without requiring all the development overhead of a full fledged Homeworld 3D waypoint selection style system. It could get us in capital ships sooner, even if the eventual goal was still the Homeworld model.
It would also be useful as a mobile camera for filming battles and such.
http://vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/16226
Ok, poke holes in it.
If I were a helmsman, I would use binds.
Interesting idea, PsyRa.
Actually, the capital ship could be able to launch 'pilot probes' (stock of 5 per ship, which replenishes very slowly by collecting space dust, perhaps) with insane speed & manoeuverability (think IBG and then some), adequate armour (around 2k), infinite boost and no weapons (except for a waypoint buoy launcher that virtually never runs out of ammo. Make it 50 shots or so) or cargo space. Once launched, they cannot dock again, and they cannot warp, leave sectors, or dock with stations. They can relay nav routes to other ships, however, but they have to get in close range (500m, perhaps 700) of the capital ship(s) to broadcast to.
The captain or a designated crew member (not the pilot/helmsman, the pilot needs to watch out for the ship) skips around the sector and plots a course that will allow the cap ship to pass through. To facilitate the estimating whether the ship will be able to fly through this narrow passage or that asteroid field, the pilot probe can project a virtual instance of the capital ship that has a collision mesh (but is only visible to the pilot, to keep framerates in sane regions).
The setting of waypoints in space (not on the map) is a necessary thing in VO in my opinion. Scripting abuse is not really a topic, but that's soemthing else entirely.
Actually, the capital ship could be able to launch 'pilot probes' (stock of 5 per ship, which replenishes very slowly by collecting space dust, perhaps) with insane speed & manoeuverability (think IBG and then some), adequate armour (around 2k), infinite boost and no weapons (except for a waypoint buoy launcher that virtually never runs out of ammo. Make it 50 shots or so) or cargo space. Once launched, they cannot dock again, and they cannot warp, leave sectors, or dock with stations. They can relay nav routes to other ships, however, but they have to get in close range (500m, perhaps 700) of the capital ship(s) to broadcast to.
The captain or a designated crew member (not the pilot/helmsman, the pilot needs to watch out for the ship) skips around the sector and plots a course that will allow the cap ship to pass through. To facilitate the estimating whether the ship will be able to fly through this narrow passage or that asteroid field, the pilot probe can project a virtual instance of the capital ship that has a collision mesh (but is only visible to the pilot, to keep framerates in sane regions).
The setting of waypoints in space (not on the map) is a necessary thing in VO in my opinion. Scripting abuse is not really a topic, but that's soemthing else entirely.
I have this kind of wacky idea, but I think it'd be quick to manage, and intuitive.
To start off, the point of view could be rotated around a fixed point, and the distance from that point, as well as the position of that point, could be manipulated at the navigator's leisure. He/She could scope out the universe without restriction, except of course things would get fuzzy where no allied ships' field of view was present.
From there, the navigator could place spherical markers, that are exactly 100m across in diameter, as waypoints with so much as a click. These spheres could be moved by being dragged around the screen. To manipulate depth, the navigator would resize the length of the sphere on the screen by just clicking and dragging the sides closer/farther from the center. The actual size of the marker wouldn't change, it would still be 100m in diameter.
Instead, the navigator draws the circle as it would appear in space. To set a course very distant from the perspective, the navigator would shrink it down. To set a course almost right in front of the camera, the navigator would of course blow it up to full screen. This would be an intuitive system, because the with practice, in two clicks he/she could simply imagine how it would look from a given perspective, and draw in the circle as it would fit.
To start off, the point of view could be rotated around a fixed point, and the distance from that point, as well as the position of that point, could be manipulated at the navigator's leisure. He/She could scope out the universe without restriction, except of course things would get fuzzy where no allied ships' field of view was present.
From there, the navigator could place spherical markers, that are exactly 100m across in diameter, as waypoints with so much as a click. These spheres could be moved by being dragged around the screen. To manipulate depth, the navigator would resize the length of the sphere on the screen by just clicking and dragging the sides closer/farther from the center. The actual size of the marker wouldn't change, it would still be 100m in diameter.
Instead, the navigator draws the circle as it would appear in space. To set a course very distant from the perspective, the navigator would shrink it down. To set a course almost right in front of the camera, the navigator would of course blow it up to full screen. This would be an intuitive system, because the with practice, in two clicks he/she could simply imagine how it would look from a given perspective, and draw in the circle as it would fit.