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So this is extending on the ideas posted by CrippledPidgeon and myself in:
http://vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/10212?page=2
basically the idea is that past combat level 4 there would be pk requirements for combat levels.
This way in order to get a strong combat ship, you actually have to engage in combat, not just mindless botting.
There are certain issues with implementation though (Many players have already botted themselves up to combat 9+ for their skycommands and might be seriously miffed if they suddenly lost them until they got higher pk levels.)
While I think it would be a good idea to take away the skycommands from some of these players (so they can learn to AIM), I also realize that a lot of work has gone into this (save for the crackbotters). But this seems to be a good way to go about creating a merit system of gaining better ships.
On another note, it would be nice if, to get the bomber class of serco ship (The prometheus) you actually had to successfully be able to fly regular bombers, like ragnaroks and wraiths. So perhaps classifying pk's into heavy/medium/light categories would allow players to play toward their strengths.
(This would also make getting a skycommand a very difficult process, you would really have to KNOW how to pilot a heavy ship, not just a heavy ship that flies like a light one.)
A possible counterargument to this is that it would create griefing on a large scale, honor would go out the window because everyone would NEED the kills to move further. But lets be straight, this is a War, how are you getting the high level itani /serco combat models if you're not fighting in it.
And honestly, anything that would jumpstart the serco/itani conflict would be great. It's all pirate vs anti-pirate right now. Which isn't exactly the vendetta I was expecting.
http://vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/10212?page=2
basically the idea is that past combat level 4 there would be pk requirements for combat levels.
This way in order to get a strong combat ship, you actually have to engage in combat, not just mindless botting.
There are certain issues with implementation though (Many players have already botted themselves up to combat 9+ for their skycommands and might be seriously miffed if they suddenly lost them until they got higher pk levels.)
While I think it would be a good idea to take away the skycommands from some of these players (so they can learn to AIM), I also realize that a lot of work has gone into this (save for the crackbotters). But this seems to be a good way to go about creating a merit system of gaining better ships.
On another note, it would be nice if, to get the bomber class of serco ship (The prometheus) you actually had to successfully be able to fly regular bombers, like ragnaroks and wraiths. So perhaps classifying pk's into heavy/medium/light categories would allow players to play toward their strengths.
(This would also make getting a skycommand a very difficult process, you would really have to KNOW how to pilot a heavy ship, not just a heavy ship that flies like a light one.)
A possible counterargument to this is that it would create griefing on a large scale, honor would go out the window because everyone would NEED the kills to move further. But lets be straight, this is a War, how are you getting the high level itani /serco combat models if you're not fighting in it.
And honestly, anything that would jumpstart the serco/itani conflict would be great. It's all pirate vs anti-pirate right now. Which isn't exactly the vendetta I was expecting.
Re: Shapenaji
> So this is extending on the ideas posted by CrippledPidgeon and myself in:
>
> http://vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/10212?page=2
>
> basically the idea is that past combat level 4 there would be pk requirements for
> combat levels.
>
> This way in order to get a strong combat ship, you actually have to engage in
> combat, not just mindless botting.
>
> [comments deleted]
The problem with this framework is that, by itself, it tilts the playground toward PvP without a corresponding balancing PvE measure. Please see my suggested PvE co-measure at the following URL:
http://vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/10212?page=2#117090
Basically, my idea is that past Trading and Commerce License Level 4, there would be mission and credit requirements for trading levels.
That way, in order to get a profitable trading ship, you actually need to focus on trading and profiting, not just trigger-happy PK'ing.
There are certain issues with implementation though (particularly, many players have already traded themselves up to trading level 8+ for their Behemoths, and may seriously be miffed if they suddenly lost them until they earned higher mission and credit levels).
While I think it would be a good idea to take away the Behemoths from some of these players (so they can learn to CHECK PRICES), I also realize that a lot of work has gone into this (save for the players who have never bothered to compare profit margins across quadrants). But this seems to be a good way to go about creating a merit system for gaining better trading ships.
On another note, it would be nice if, to get the heavy trading class of ship (the Behemoth), you actually had successfully to learn how to achieve a high profit margin on smaller non-trading-guild mission hauls. So perhaps requiring successively higher profit margin percentages for light/medium/heavy categories would allow players to work toward their strengths.
(This would also make getting a Behemoth a very difficult process; you would really need to LEARN how to maximize profit margins on non-trading-guild mission hauls by doing your own market research, not just by taking hundreds of trading guild missions.)
A possible counter-argument to this is that it would force PvE on a large scale; focusing almost exclusively on PvP would go out the window because everyone would NEED the missions and credits to move further. But let's be straight: This is an RPG, not an FPS, and how are you getting the high-level trading models if you're not carrying out PvE missions in it?
And honestly, anything that would balance the current focus on the FPS side with additional focus on the RPG side would be great. It's mostly FPS-focused right now. Which isn't exactly the Vendetta™ Online I was expecting.
For reference, the following is an excerpt from my above-referenced post:
----- excerpt begins immediately after this line -----
Divide all ships primarily into three categories: PvP-focused, PvE-focused, and PvP & PvE Dual-focused. Create a new PvE mission requirement, based on the number of challenging missions completed and credits acquired, for access to all ships that are PvE-focused. These would primarily be Behemoths, Marauders, Centaurs (especially the Aggresso, which, IMHO, is the ultimate botting ship), Hornets, Atlases, and Wraiths. The categories would be divided as follows:
PvP-focused:
* Centurion
* Vulture
* Warthog
* Ragnarok
* Valkyrie
* Prometheus
PvE-focused:
* Wraith
* Atlas
* Hornet
* Centaur
* Marauder
* Behemoth
PvP & PvE Dual-focused:
* EC
Add a new Trading and Commerce License requirement for the Hornet, and designate it as a Queen Hive botting and Capital Ship bombing ship. Make it require, say, Trading and Commerce License Level 5.
Add a combined PvE mission number and credit requirement for access to the PvE-focused ships, as follows:
Level 5: 10 missions, 250000 credits
Level 6: 30 missions, 750000 credits
Level 7: 90 missions, 2250000 credits
Level 8: 270 missions, 6750000 credits
Level 9: 810 missions, 20250000 credits
Level 10: 2430 missions, 60750000 credits
Increase the Trading and Commerce License requirement for the basic Centaur to Level 5, and for the Tunguska Centaur Aggresso to Level 7, while retaining the current Tunguska faction standing requirement. Increase the license requirement for the Behemoth to Level 9. Reduce the same requirement for the Valent Marauder Rev B to Level 10.
Hence, a Behemoth would require one to be quite dedicated to trading and commerce. A Valent Marauder Rev B would require one to be extremely so. Only incredibly dedicated traders would ever get to fly one.
----- excerpt ends immediately before this line -----
-- DekuDekuplex Ornitier
> So this is extending on the ideas posted by CrippledPidgeon and myself in:
>
> http://vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/10212?page=2
>
> basically the idea is that past combat level 4 there would be pk requirements for
> combat levels.
>
> This way in order to get a strong combat ship, you actually have to engage in
> combat, not just mindless botting.
>
> [comments deleted]
The problem with this framework is that, by itself, it tilts the playground toward PvP without a corresponding balancing PvE measure. Please see my suggested PvE co-measure at the following URL:
http://vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/10212?page=2#117090
Basically, my idea is that past Trading and Commerce License Level 4, there would be mission and credit requirements for trading levels.
That way, in order to get a profitable trading ship, you actually need to focus on trading and profiting, not just trigger-happy PK'ing.
There are certain issues with implementation though (particularly, many players have already traded themselves up to trading level 8+ for their Behemoths, and may seriously be miffed if they suddenly lost them until they earned higher mission and credit levels).
While I think it would be a good idea to take away the Behemoths from some of these players (so they can learn to CHECK PRICES), I also realize that a lot of work has gone into this (save for the players who have never bothered to compare profit margins across quadrants). But this seems to be a good way to go about creating a merit system for gaining better trading ships.
On another note, it would be nice if, to get the heavy trading class of ship (the Behemoth), you actually had successfully to learn how to achieve a high profit margin on smaller non-trading-guild mission hauls. So perhaps requiring successively higher profit margin percentages for light/medium/heavy categories would allow players to work toward their strengths.
(This would also make getting a Behemoth a very difficult process; you would really need to LEARN how to maximize profit margins on non-trading-guild mission hauls by doing your own market research, not just by taking hundreds of trading guild missions.)
A possible counter-argument to this is that it would force PvE on a large scale; focusing almost exclusively on PvP would go out the window because everyone would NEED the missions and credits to move further. But let's be straight: This is an RPG, not an FPS, and how are you getting the high-level trading models if you're not carrying out PvE missions in it?
And honestly, anything that would balance the current focus on the FPS side with additional focus on the RPG side would be great. It's mostly FPS-focused right now. Which isn't exactly the Vendetta™ Online I was expecting.
For reference, the following is an excerpt from my above-referenced post:
----- excerpt begins immediately after this line -----
Divide all ships primarily into three categories: PvP-focused, PvE-focused, and PvP & PvE Dual-focused. Create a new PvE mission requirement, based on the number of challenging missions completed and credits acquired, for access to all ships that are PvE-focused. These would primarily be Behemoths, Marauders, Centaurs (especially the Aggresso, which, IMHO, is the ultimate botting ship), Hornets, Atlases, and Wraiths. The categories would be divided as follows:
PvP-focused:
* Centurion
* Vulture
* Warthog
* Ragnarok
* Valkyrie
* Prometheus
PvE-focused:
* Wraith
* Atlas
* Hornet
* Centaur
* Marauder
* Behemoth
PvP & PvE Dual-focused:
* EC
Add a new Trading and Commerce License requirement for the Hornet, and designate it as a Queen Hive botting and Capital Ship bombing ship. Make it require, say, Trading and Commerce License Level 5.
Add a combined PvE mission number and credit requirement for access to the PvE-focused ships, as follows:
Level 5: 10 missions, 250000 credits
Level 6: 30 missions, 750000 credits
Level 7: 90 missions, 2250000 credits
Level 8: 270 missions, 6750000 credits
Level 9: 810 missions, 20250000 credits
Level 10: 2430 missions, 60750000 credits
Increase the Trading and Commerce License requirement for the basic Centaur to Level 5, and for the Tunguska Centaur Aggresso to Level 7, while retaining the current Tunguska faction standing requirement. Increase the license requirement for the Behemoth to Level 9. Reduce the same requirement for the Valent Marauder Rev B to Level 10.
Hence, a Behemoth would require one to be quite dedicated to trading and commerce. A Valent Marauder Rev B would require one to be extremely so. Only incredibly dedicated traders would ever get to fly one.
----- excerpt ends immediately before this line -----
-- DekuDekuplex Ornitier
Do you need to double post?
Anyway, i actually agree with shape, some ships (note some) especially those that give an edge in PVP should require some PVP skill to get, at this moment in time, you dont even need botting skills, just a crack in a roid - or if your real good at exploiting, ANY roid.
I also agree that ships that are PVE focused should not need this requirement, IE, behemoth, maud, centaur atlas, hell even centurian, warthog. But why would a PVE type want a prom? a valk? or even, dare i say it, certain variants of said *PVE* ships, like the Tung agresso, or the corvus maud...
[edit]
I know i have seen you in a prom, guess what, its a heavy bomber, not a PVE ship.
Anyway, i actually agree with shape, some ships (note some) especially those that give an edge in PVP should require some PVP skill to get, at this moment in time, you dont even need botting skills, just a crack in a roid - or if your real good at exploiting, ANY roid.
I also agree that ships that are PVE focused should not need this requirement, IE, behemoth, maud, centaur atlas, hell even centurian, warthog. But why would a PVE type want a prom? a valk? or even, dare i say it, certain variants of said *PVE* ships, like the Tung agresso, or the corvus maud...
[edit]
I know i have seen you in a prom, guess what, its a heavy bomber, not a PVE ship.
Re: yodaofborg
> But why would a PVE type want a prom? a valk? or even, dare i say it, certain
> variants of said *PVE* ships, like the Tung agresso, or the corvus maud...
While I tend to agree with you about the Prometheus and the Valkyrie, I personally use a Tunguska Centaur Aggresso for hunting Valent, Prosus, and Dentek Assault ships, Arklan Guardians, Hellman Overseers, and Hive Queens, and for trading in gray space. I also plan to use it to carry out Assassination missions against enemy marshals and station bots, and to hunt Stygian Furies. These are all valid PvE purposes.
-- DekuDekuplex Ornitier
> But why would a PVE type want a prom? a valk? or even, dare i say it, certain
> variants of said *PVE* ships, like the Tung agresso, or the corvus maud...
While I tend to agree with you about the Prometheus and the Valkyrie, I personally use a Tunguska Centaur Aggresso for hunting Valent, Prosus, and Dentek Assault ships, Arklan Guardians, Hellman Overseers, and Hive Queens, and for trading in gray space. I also plan to use it to carry out Assassination missions against enemy marshals and station bots, and to hunt Stygian Furies. These are all valid PvE purposes.
-- DekuDekuplex Ornitier
(I reposted this stuff because I didn't want people to wade through a thread on griefing to get to it)
Fair point, but the Tung Centa is the COMBAT variant centa, and in PVP? it can be as nasty as a prom.
[Edit]
Actually having the UIT specials available with no PVP experience is probably the extra UIT need for their space being so dangerous, the more i think of this idea (with tweaks of course) the better i think it would be for the game.
[Edit 2]
It wasnt aimed nevermind... (off topic)
[Edit]
Actually having the UIT specials available with no PVP experience is probably the extra UIT need for their space being so dangerous, the more i think of this idea (with tweaks of course) the better i think it would be for the game.
[Edit 2]
It wasnt aimed nevermind... (off topic)
Re: yodaofborg
> Fair point, but the Tung Centa is the COMBAT variant centa, and in PVP? it can
> be as nasty as a prom.
"As nasty as a prom?" I doubt it. The Tunguska Centaur Aggresso is the "Elite" variant, not the "COMBAT" (or "Assault," in the case of the Serco SkyCommand Prometheus) variant, and "Elite" can include elite botting as well. PvE players want elite variants just as much as PvP players do, for their own status. The other Centaurs are really for trading until the Marauder and Behemoth become available.
Just compare the statistics ( as updated from the outdated statistics currently listed on the WiKi at http://lemming.localnetsys.com/wiki/doku.php?id=ships:prometheus ):
Serco Skycommand Prometheus (after its thrust was reduced by 25 N, and its spin torque was reduced by 1.0 Nm) :
Variant: Assault Variant
Armor: 21000
Cargo: 18
Mass: 10000 kg
Thrust: 615 N
Turbo Speed: 220 m/s
Tunguska Centaur Aggresso:
Variant: Elite
Armor: 17500
Cargo: 50
Mass: 15000 kg
Thrust: 500 N
Turbo Speed: 200 m/s
Compared to the Serco SkyCommand Prometheus, the Tunguska Centaur Aggresso has 3500 less armor, 5000 kg more mass, almost three times the cargo space, almost a fifth less thrust, and 20 less turbo speed. I use it mainly for trading in dangerous territory, and for hunting Arklan Guardians, Hellman Overseers, marshals, and station bots. I prefer it to both Marauders and Behemoths for carrying out PvE trading guild missions in gray space.
When, occasionally, I want to participate in PvP, I usually use a Valkyrie Rune, not an Aggresso (except when I need to repair another ship).
-- DekuDekuplex Orntier
> Fair point, but the Tung Centa is the COMBAT variant centa, and in PVP? it can
> be as nasty as a prom.
"As nasty as a prom?" I doubt it. The Tunguska Centaur Aggresso is the "Elite" variant, not the "COMBAT" (or "Assault," in the case of the Serco SkyCommand Prometheus) variant, and "Elite" can include elite botting as well. PvE players want elite variants just as much as PvP players do, for their own status. The other Centaurs are really for trading until the Marauder and Behemoth become available.
Just compare the statistics ( as updated from the outdated statistics currently listed on the WiKi at http://lemming.localnetsys.com/wiki/doku.php?id=ships:prometheus ):
Serco Skycommand Prometheus (after its thrust was reduced by 25 N, and its spin torque was reduced by 1.0 Nm) :
Variant: Assault Variant
Armor: 21000
Cargo: 18
Mass: 10000 kg
Thrust: 615 N
Turbo Speed: 220 m/s
Tunguska Centaur Aggresso:
Variant: Elite
Armor: 17500
Cargo: 50
Mass: 15000 kg
Thrust: 500 N
Turbo Speed: 200 m/s
Compared to the Serco SkyCommand Prometheus, the Tunguska Centaur Aggresso has 3500 less armor, 5000 kg more mass, almost three times the cargo space, almost a fifth less thrust, and 20 less turbo speed. I use it mainly for trading in dangerous territory, and for hunting Arklan Guardians, Hellman Overseers, marshals, and station bots. I prefer it to both Marauders and Behemoths for carrying out PvE trading guild missions in gray space.
When, occasionally, I want to participate in PvP, I usually use a Valkyrie Rune, not an Aggresso (except when I need to repair another ship).
-- DekuDekuplex Orntier
This would also make it harder for people to make alts that could become just as great as thier main alt in a few days.
I like it.
I like it.
I said a prom, not the sky prom.
And after having my ass whooped several times by a tung centa, i know it can handle itself more than well.
As for your other comment, what the hell is wrong with the hog for botting? or the centa mk3? PvE people really do not need access to Elite variants, heck, i can bot all day long in a cent mk2 with a phase blaster, just show me which bot! (isnt that the aim of a PvE'er? to overcome the enviroment no matter what the odds?)
And after having my ass whooped several times by a tung centa, i know it can handle itself more than well.
As for your other comment, what the hell is wrong with the hog for botting? or the centa mk3? PvE people really do not need access to Elite variants, heck, i can bot all day long in a cent mk2 with a phase blaster, just show me which bot! (isnt that the aim of a PvE'er? to overcome the enviroment no matter what the odds?)
Anyone who says the Aggresso is not a PvP focused ship needs to have their head examined. Recall how the Aggresso came into being - the developers realized that they had made the Centaur too powerful, and people were using it for PvP purposes, which really isn't what it's intended for. Therefore, they nerfed the Centaur, but decided to create the Aggresso so there was a ship that filled the PvP role that the former Centaur used to. I use the Aggresso as my main combat ship, and am extremely effective with it. Also, I don't know why one would ever use an Aggresso to trade in grey space, as the Behemoth is all but impossible to catch and does the job much better.
These PK requirements could be useful, and maybe there should be credit requrements for trade/mining levels, but the credit requirements that have been suggested are at this point absurd.
These PK requirements could be useful, and maybe there should be credit requrements for trade/mining levels, but the credit requirements that have been suggested are at this point absurd.
Re: yodaofborg
> hat the hell is wrong with the hog for botting? or the centa mk3? PvE people
> really do not need access to Elite variants, heck, i can bot all day long in a cent
> mk2 with a phase blaster, just show me which bot! (isnt that the aim of a PvE'er?
> to overcome the enviroment no matter what the odds?)
But they do. You're completely ignoring the status factor.
That's like saying that company presidents really do not need access to Mercedes Benz's or Rolls Royces, heck, they can drive all day long in a Buick, just show them where to drive.
That's not the reason that company presidents choose Mercedes Benz's or Rolls Royces. They usually care about status.
That single word, "Elite," in the description of the variant type of the "Tunguska Centaur Aggresso," together with the matching increased performance, is the reason that some, if not many, players work hours, if not days, to get that required +960 Tunguska faction standing for it. It's not a question of just necessity; it's also a question of earning a distinction as a PvE player.
PvE players want distinctions coupled with rewards just as much as PvP players. Perhaps some other players use the Aggresso for other purposes, but the main reason I got mine was the "Elite" tag, plus the performance bonus rewards that make it more useful for more advanced botting and trading. I found the other Centaurs more useful for trading than for advanced botting, and would probably not use them for Assassination missions against Serco marshals.
-- DekuDekuplex Ornitier
> hat the hell is wrong with the hog for botting? or the centa mk3? PvE people
> really do not need access to Elite variants, heck, i can bot all day long in a cent
> mk2 with a phase blaster, just show me which bot! (isnt that the aim of a PvE'er?
> to overcome the enviroment no matter what the odds?)
But they do. You're completely ignoring the status factor.
That's like saying that company presidents really do not need access to Mercedes Benz's or Rolls Royces, heck, they can drive all day long in a Buick, just show them where to drive.
That's not the reason that company presidents choose Mercedes Benz's or Rolls Royces. They usually care about status.
That single word, "Elite," in the description of the variant type of the "Tunguska Centaur Aggresso," together with the matching increased performance, is the reason that some, if not many, players work hours, if not days, to get that required +960 Tunguska faction standing for it. It's not a question of just necessity; it's also a question of earning a distinction as a PvE player.
PvE players want distinctions coupled with rewards just as much as PvP players. Perhaps some other players use the Aggresso for other purposes, but the main reason I got mine was the "Elite" tag, plus the performance bonus rewards that make it more useful for more advanced botting and trading. I found the other Centaurs more useful for trading than for advanced botting, and would probably not use them for Assassination missions against Serco marshals.
-- DekuDekuplex Ornitier
hahahahahahaha
Actually, I got the aggresso because in the pre-Behemoth days it was the best trading ship in the game, and because it filled a useful PvP niche, especially if one had no desire to get a Prometheus. In my opinion, spending hours to raise faction to get a ship simply because it has an "elite" tag is just a little odd. If most really are motivated by that, then everyone would be flying axia buses (they have an "elite" description too!")
Re: fprefect
> I don't know why one would ever use an Aggresso to trade in grey space, as the
> Behemoth is all but impossible to catch and does the job much better.
The Behemoth has only a max speed of 190 m/s, and has relatively slower acceleration and maneuverability compared to the Aggresso. If you are in a Behemoth near Corvus Hold and are simultaneously attacked by two pirates in Orion Centurion Rev C's with Neutron Blaster MkIII's, one from the front, and one from the rear, then you stand a much better chance in evading at a tangent in the more maneuverable Aggresso than in a Behemoth.
> These PK requirements could be useful, and maybe there should be credit
> requrements for trade/mining levels, but the credit requirements that have been
> suggested are at this point absurd.
Why? They don't seem any more "absurd" to me than the current Combat Piloting License experience point requirements for any level higher than 8. They were designed to match the three-fold increase in PK's per increased Combat Piloting License level in Shapenaji's suggestion.
Just check out the bulk procurement trading guild missions in Deneb. Some missions there give 150000 credits for a single round trip haul. Only ten such missions will give you a million and a half credits. My figures were based on these rewards.
-- DekuDekuplex Ornitier
> I don't know why one would ever use an Aggresso to trade in grey space, as the
> Behemoth is all but impossible to catch and does the job much better.
The Behemoth has only a max speed of 190 m/s, and has relatively slower acceleration and maneuverability compared to the Aggresso. If you are in a Behemoth near Corvus Hold and are simultaneously attacked by two pirates in Orion Centurion Rev C's with Neutron Blaster MkIII's, one from the front, and one from the rear, then you stand a much better chance in evading at a tangent in the more maneuverable Aggresso than in a Behemoth.
> These PK requirements could be useful, and maybe there should be credit
> requrements for trade/mining levels, but the credit requirements that have been
> suggested are at this point absurd.
Why? They don't seem any more "absurd" to me than the current Combat Piloting License experience point requirements for any level higher than 8. They were designed to match the three-fold increase in PK's per increased Combat Piloting License level in Shapenaji's suggestion.
Just check out the bulk procurement trading guild missions in Deneb. Some missions there give 150000 credits for a single round trip haul. Only ten such missions will give you a million and a half credits. My figures were based on these rewards.
-- DekuDekuplex Ornitier
but but, what is the time going to be to get access to frigate. 2000000 missions, and 2000000000000 credits.
Keep it a bit realistic please :D
PS: company presidents choose mercedes because they have the best negotiators and clientbinders. If a company president wants status, then he will first of all buy an oldie (60's chevrolet, mustang). And these are mostly company cars and used as a second car not a principal one. Mostly mercedesses get used because they are known for their durabilility or because they could get some cheap deals going.
Anyway shape, the implementation of pks as a way to open up shiptypes is not how I would like it to go. Since that would encourage griefing and abusal. (Since what would stop somebody from creating a second char and letting people blow that one up and then having the same thing done for his main char). which at once would also stop any forms of implementing deathpenalties if you were thinking about that to make sure that people would not do it with their main char. How I would however want to do it is by making missions available that test your ability to manouever a heavy a light or whatever. And this for a combination of PVE and PvP cases. Aka elite/assault/lighter/armoured versions need to be gained by pvp, while increased hold and mining should be done through PVE.
This could be protect transport x from person y, or in case of the prometheus bomber, use a class mk2 on a convoy of 5 transports each holding 8 cargo. Make sure that none of the transports makes it and bring the cargo to me. If ok, because of this feat we reward you with the mk3. then for the scp, something along th elines of, hello recruit we are entrusting you with one of our most prized posessions, please use it sparingly and take out the Itani capship that has been buggering us for ages.
Do the same things for weapons. give them access to the starter one. And depending on their efficiency make them open up other versions (as the pk medal does for rails already). only not 500 pks to open up something like a sunflare as a small port rocket :D
cheers
PS: it takes you 1 hour to do a mission that rewards you with 150k. In fightingconditions you cn easilly spend 150k in 20 mins. Just fight as a serco agaisnt all the itanis in a capshipbattle. Or just by defending in ctc... And sorry, I can't spend days and days trading just to be able to fun my umpty deaths. nor would I want to.
Keep it a bit realistic please :D
PS: company presidents choose mercedes because they have the best negotiators and clientbinders. If a company president wants status, then he will first of all buy an oldie (60's chevrolet, mustang). And these are mostly company cars and used as a second car not a principal one. Mostly mercedesses get used because they are known for their durabilility or because they could get some cheap deals going.
Anyway shape, the implementation of pks as a way to open up shiptypes is not how I would like it to go. Since that would encourage griefing and abusal. (Since what would stop somebody from creating a second char and letting people blow that one up and then having the same thing done for his main char). which at once would also stop any forms of implementing deathpenalties if you were thinking about that to make sure that people would not do it with their main char. How I would however want to do it is by making missions available that test your ability to manouever a heavy a light or whatever. And this for a combination of PVE and PvP cases. Aka elite/assault/lighter/armoured versions need to be gained by pvp, while increased hold and mining should be done through PVE.
This could be protect transport x from person y, or in case of the prometheus bomber, use a class mk2 on a convoy of 5 transports each holding 8 cargo. Make sure that none of the transports makes it and bring the cargo to me. If ok, because of this feat we reward you with the mk3. then for the scp, something along th elines of, hello recruit we are entrusting you with one of our most prized posessions, please use it sparingly and take out the Itani capship that has been buggering us for ages.
Do the same things for weapons. give them access to the starter one. And depending on their efficiency make them open up other versions (as the pk medal does for rails already). only not 500 pks to open up something like a sunflare as a small port rocket :D
cheers
PS: it takes you 1 hour to do a mission that rewards you with 150k. In fightingconditions you cn easilly spend 150k in 20 mins. Just fight as a serco agaisnt all the itanis in a capshipbattle. Or just by defending in ctc... And sorry, I can't spend days and days trading just to be able to fun my umpty deaths. nor would I want to.
"The Behemoth has only a max speed of 190 m/s, and has relatively slower acceleration and maneuverability compared to the Aggresso. If you are in a Behemoth near Corvus Hold and are simultaneously attacked by two pirates in Orion Centurion Rev C's with Neutron Blaster MkIII's, one from the front, and one from the rear, then you stand a much better chance in evading at a tangent in the more maneuverable Aggresso than in a Behemoth."
Wow, you've just described a scenario that never happens! It's rare enough to come across one pirate, let alone two operating as a team. And I happen to know that BLAK has tested a variety of both individual and team strategies for catching a Behemoth, and none have been successful.
Wow, you've just described a scenario that never happens! It's rare enough to come across one pirate, let alone two operating as a team. And I happen to know that BLAK has tested a variety of both individual and team strategies for catching a Behemoth, and none have been successful.
Re: fprefect
> And I happen to know that BLAK has tested a variety of both individual and team
> strategies for catching a Behemoth, and none have been successful.
Wow. Really? That's useful new information that I didn't know.
Thanks! Next time I trade in gray space, I'll take out a Behemoth instead of my Aggresso, then! But I'll still use my Aggresso for Assassination missions.
Re: Renegade ++RIP++
> If a company president wants status, then he will first of all buy an oldie (60's
> chevrolet, mustang). And these are mostly company cars and used as a second
> car not a principal one. Mostly mercedesses get used because they are known
> for their durabilility or because they could get some cheap deals going.
That's the first time I've heard that one about Mercedes Benz's. AFAIK, the reason that most yakuza in Osaka drive Mercedes Benz's and not Celsior's (Japanese Lexuses ["Lexi?"]) is that Mercedes Benz's here are perceived as a status symbol. The 520 SEL's get imported directly from Germany, are then modified for the Japanese market, and cost about the equivalent of USD $80,000 here. Yakuza drive them in front of other yakuza in order to look more politically and financially impressive. If that's not status symbol usage, then I don't know what is.
Nobody here would ever buy a '60's Chevrolet Mustang as either a corporate or a yakuza status symbol because it would never be perceived as such. It would be perceived as a quaint antique collector's hobby item. In fact, in general, smaller European cars here are perceived as being more impressive as status symbols than larger American cars, which are too awkward to fit on extremely narrow Japanese roads. And smaller things here in general tend to connote luxury more than larger things. But that may just be a cultural difference.
> How I would however want to do it is by making missions available that test
> your ability to manouever a heavy a light or whatever. And this for a
> combination of PVE and PvP cases. Aka elite/assault/lighter/armoured versions
> need to be gained by pvp, while increased hold and mining should be done
> through PVE.
While I'm in favor of your missions idea, I disagree with your suggestion that "Elite" variants "need to be gained by pvp" (although I agree with the assault/light/armored variants being gained in that manner). Unlike the other adjectives, the word "elite" connotes status, which is just as important, if not more so, to a PvE player as to a PvP player. One of my late trading uncles once exhorted me to become an "elite" trader, for example.
There needs to be a variant for PvE players that connotes special recognition for effort, in addition to skill. A PvE player who spends 30 hours on PvE missions should receive a better PvE ship than one who only spends 3 hours, and that recognition should be reflected both in the title and in the performance bonuses for the reward variant.
I would suggest either of the following possibilities:
* using the term "Veteran Variant" or "Combat Variant" for the advanced PvP variants and the term "Elite Variant" for the advanced PvE variants
* polymorphing the term "Elite" so that it connotes different features for different ships
For example, an "Elite Variant" Behemoth could connote a super-heavy, super-fast transport ship with decent maneuverability, while an "Elite Variant" Prometheus could connote a super-maneuverable combat ship.
In any event, there needs to be a status-connoting term for advanced variants of PvE ships as well.
-- DekuDeuplex Ornitier
> And I happen to know that BLAK has tested a variety of both individual and team
> strategies for catching a Behemoth, and none have been successful.
Wow. Really? That's useful new information that I didn't know.
Thanks! Next time I trade in gray space, I'll take out a Behemoth instead of my Aggresso, then! But I'll still use my Aggresso for Assassination missions.
Re: Renegade ++RIP++
> If a company president wants status, then he will first of all buy an oldie (60's
> chevrolet, mustang). And these are mostly company cars and used as a second
> car not a principal one. Mostly mercedesses get used because they are known
> for their durabilility or because they could get some cheap deals going.
That's the first time I've heard that one about Mercedes Benz's. AFAIK, the reason that most yakuza in Osaka drive Mercedes Benz's and not Celsior's (Japanese Lexuses ["Lexi?"]) is that Mercedes Benz's here are perceived as a status symbol. The 520 SEL's get imported directly from Germany, are then modified for the Japanese market, and cost about the equivalent of USD $80,000 here. Yakuza drive them in front of other yakuza in order to look more politically and financially impressive. If that's not status symbol usage, then I don't know what is.
Nobody here would ever buy a '60's Chevrolet Mustang as either a corporate or a yakuza status symbol because it would never be perceived as such. It would be perceived as a quaint antique collector's hobby item. In fact, in general, smaller European cars here are perceived as being more impressive as status symbols than larger American cars, which are too awkward to fit on extremely narrow Japanese roads. And smaller things here in general tend to connote luxury more than larger things. But that may just be a cultural difference.
> How I would however want to do it is by making missions available that test
> your ability to manouever a heavy a light or whatever. And this for a
> combination of PVE and PvP cases. Aka elite/assault/lighter/armoured versions
> need to be gained by pvp, while increased hold and mining should be done
> through PVE.
While I'm in favor of your missions idea, I disagree with your suggestion that "Elite" variants "need to be gained by pvp" (although I agree with the assault/light/armored variants being gained in that manner). Unlike the other adjectives, the word "elite" connotes status, which is just as important, if not more so, to a PvE player as to a PvP player. One of my late trading uncles once exhorted me to become an "elite" trader, for example.
There needs to be a variant for PvE players that connotes special recognition for effort, in addition to skill. A PvE player who spends 30 hours on PvE missions should receive a better PvE ship than one who only spends 3 hours, and that recognition should be reflected both in the title and in the performance bonuses for the reward variant.
I would suggest either of the following possibilities:
* using the term "Veteran Variant" or "Combat Variant" for the advanced PvP variants and the term "Elite Variant" for the advanced PvE variants
* polymorphing the term "Elite" so that it connotes different features for different ships
For example, an "Elite Variant" Behemoth could connote a super-heavy, super-fast transport ship with decent maneuverability, while an "Elite Variant" Prometheus could connote a super-maneuverable combat ship.
In any event, there needs to be a status-connoting term for advanced variants of PvE ships as well.
-- DekuDeuplex Ornitier
Yeah, basically when I see a moth, unless myself and my compatriots are ready to do moth hunting, I just let it go, its not worth the effort.
Let me add though, Deku, that the reasons you posted that the tung centa was good involved botting and trading in grey space. Grey being PvP planet, some combat ought to be involved, if perhaps a relatively small amount (27 pk's sound reasonable?)
Also, the Centaur mk III is equally useful for the assassination missions, all you really need for assassination is the firepower. (If you know some tricks, you don't even need THAT).
The Tung Cent, the "Aggresso" is a beast of PvP, and seeing as the Cent mk III can be used effectively against the prom, you better believe that that the tung Centa is as powerful.
The whole point is that the Centaur has more firepower than the prom, so even if it dodges a bit slower, put rockets on there and a prom very easily finds itself not itself anymore.
the same thing is true for the rag (I would LOVE to see a special Combat Ragnarok, The Ineubis Rag might be nice.) It's firepower is so potent that it can often take out a skycommand (with a bit of luck)
The plain fact is that there is NO PvE currently that I think deserves the Tung Cent as a reward.
Let me add though, Deku, that the reasons you posted that the tung centa was good involved botting and trading in grey space. Grey being PvP planet, some combat ought to be involved, if perhaps a relatively small amount (27 pk's sound reasonable?)
Also, the Centaur mk III is equally useful for the assassination missions, all you really need for assassination is the firepower. (If you know some tricks, you don't even need THAT).
The Tung Cent, the "Aggresso" is a beast of PvP, and seeing as the Cent mk III can be used effectively against the prom, you better believe that that the tung Centa is as powerful.
The whole point is that the Centaur has more firepower than the prom, so even if it dodges a bit slower, put rockets on there and a prom very easily finds itself not itself anymore.
the same thing is true for the rag (I would LOVE to see a special Combat Ragnarok, The Ineubis Rag might be nice.) It's firepower is so potent that it can often take out a skycommand (with a bit of luck)
The plain fact is that there is NO PvE currently that I think deserves the Tung Cent as a reward.
I don't really like the idea of better ships as reward for PVPing uberness. If a person is already good, making them even better with better ships is going to widen the "vet vs n00b gap".
But then I am one of those who thinks leveling for ships should be done away =) completely, to be replaced by getting ships for standing and missions...(want a valk? go CTC and capture 200 cargo etc).
But then I am one of those who thinks leveling for ships should be done away =) completely, to be replaced by getting ships for standing and missions...(want a valk? go CTC and capture 200 cargo etc).
>But then I am one of those who thinks leveling for ships should be done
>away =) completely, to be replaced by getting ships for standing
>and missions...(want a valk? >go CTC and capture 200 cargo etc).
Yes. Totally. Currently, we're stuck in an "anything for XP" rut, wheras I think that it should be more dependant on nation status and reputability in shipping, if you've proven yourself against other pilots. Rookie pilots don't get to fly an F-16 right away...they have to fly a Cessna until they learn.
One way you would do this is by making standing and PvP & Queen kills more important, as well as adding many more ships to the mix, which are area-specific, and are purchaseable based on faction standing.
What if you made the actual numbers for faction standing invisible? That would seem more like 'real life' where you know that you're regarded as a 'good guy' but you don't walk around going "one more truck route until I'm ranked 'Good Egg', w00t!"
~Seldon
>away =) completely, to be replaced by getting ships for standing
>and missions...(want a valk? >go CTC and capture 200 cargo etc).
Yes. Totally. Currently, we're stuck in an "anything for XP" rut, wheras I think that it should be more dependant on nation status and reputability in shipping, if you've proven yourself against other pilots. Rookie pilots don't get to fly an F-16 right away...they have to fly a Cessna until they learn.
One way you would do this is by making standing and PvP & Queen kills more important, as well as adding many more ships to the mix, which are area-specific, and are purchaseable based on faction standing.
What if you made the actual numbers for faction standing invisible? That would seem more like 'real life' where you know that you're regarded as a 'good guy' but you don't walk around going "one more truck route until I'm ranked 'Good Egg', w00t!"
~Seldon