Forums » Suggestions
A possible counter-argument to this is that it would force PvE on a large scale; focusing almost exclusively on PvP would go out the window because everyone would NEED the missions and credits to move further. But let's be straight: This is an RPG, not an FPS, and how are you getting the high-level trading models if you're not carrying out PvE missions in it?
And honestly, anything that would balance the current focus on the FPS side with additional focus on the RPG side would be great. It's mostly FPS-focused right now. Which isn't exactly the Vendetta™ Online I was expecting.
-DekuDekuplex Ornitier
Why can't an RPG have FPS elements in it? Why isn't it possible to role play in Vendetta against other players? There's nothing in the "definition" of "Role Playing Game" that specifically states that players cannot role play against other players. As long as players are playing a role, and it's a game, it's a role playing game.
"As nasty as a prom?" I doubt it. The Tunguska Centaur Aggresso is the "Elite" variant, not the "COMBAT" (or "Assault," in the case of the Serco SkyCommand Prometheus) variant, and "Elite" can include elite botting as well. PvE players want elite variants just as much as PvP players do, for their own status. The other Centaurs are really for trading until the Marauder and Behemoth become available...
-DekuDekuplex Ornitier
Your comparing statistics. This just doesn't work. Look at the statistics of the Atlas and the Warthog. On paper, it appears that by all rights, the Warthog should be able to kick the Atlas up and down space, but it doesn't. The only time I've been beating by a Warthog was when said Warthog spammed swarms at me while I attacked a cap ship. So my armor was already lower than 100% from the cap ship's turrets, then a full set of swarms hit me from 100m back, and at that, I nearly killed the Warthog before the other 32 swarms whirling around me finally caught up.
I don't really like the idea of better ships as reward for PVPing uberness. If a person is already good, making them even better with better ships is going to widen the "vet vs n00b gap".
-softy2
Not really. Compare the number of players using the IBG Centurion with players using the SCP Prometheus. The IBG is an extremely capable low-level combat ship. I don't see there being a large gap between vets and n00bs. If anything, n00bs will start to interact more with vets so that they can learn how to kill other n00bs more easily.
But for combat levels, there should be some element of combat involved with getting the license. With the system I suggested (1pk total to get to 0, and it doubles with each successive level), to get level 4 combat, you only need 8 kills total. 8! For most "PvE" ships, combat level requirements tend to be low, so there will likewise be a low PvP requirement.
And honestly, anything that would balance the current focus on the FPS side with additional focus on the RPG side would be great. It's mostly FPS-focused right now. Which isn't exactly the Vendetta™ Online I was expecting.
-DekuDekuplex Ornitier
Why can't an RPG have FPS elements in it? Why isn't it possible to role play in Vendetta against other players? There's nothing in the "definition" of "Role Playing Game" that specifically states that players cannot role play against other players. As long as players are playing a role, and it's a game, it's a role playing game.
"As nasty as a prom?" I doubt it. The Tunguska Centaur Aggresso is the "Elite" variant, not the "COMBAT" (or "Assault," in the case of the Serco SkyCommand Prometheus) variant, and "Elite" can include elite botting as well. PvE players want elite variants just as much as PvP players do, for their own status. The other Centaurs are really for trading until the Marauder and Behemoth become available...
-DekuDekuplex Ornitier
Your comparing statistics. This just doesn't work. Look at the statistics of the Atlas and the Warthog. On paper, it appears that by all rights, the Warthog should be able to kick the Atlas up and down space, but it doesn't. The only time I've been beating by a Warthog was when said Warthog spammed swarms at me while I attacked a cap ship. So my armor was already lower than 100% from the cap ship's turrets, then a full set of swarms hit me from 100m back, and at that, I nearly killed the Warthog before the other 32 swarms whirling around me finally caught up.
I don't really like the idea of better ships as reward for PVPing uberness. If a person is already good, making them even better with better ships is going to widen the "vet vs n00b gap".
-softy2
Not really. Compare the number of players using the IBG Centurion with players using the SCP Prometheus. The IBG is an extremely capable low-level combat ship. I don't see there being a large gap between vets and n00bs. If anything, n00bs will start to interact more with vets so that they can learn how to kill other n00bs more easily.
But for combat levels, there should be some element of combat involved with getting the license. With the system I suggested (1pk total to get to 0, and it doubles with each successive level), to get level 4 combat, you only need 8 kills total. 8! For most "PvE" ships, combat level requirements tend to be low, so there will likewise be a low PvP requirement.
Not really. Compare the number of players using the IBG Centurion with players using the SCP Prometheus. The IBG is an extremely capable low-level combat ship. I don't see there being a large gap between vets and n00bs. If anything, n00bs will start to interact more with vets so that they can learn how to kill other n00bs more easily.
Mmmm...I have my doubts about this. While n00bs have access to the IBG relatively early on, you have to ferry them down to Sedina to be able to be able to continue fighting in 'em, and that's something that the Vets would do...not the n00bs. It would seem that the n00bs would resist going into Gray space until they at least have something better than the Plasma HX.
But for combat levels, there should be some element of combat involved with getting the license. With the system I suggested (1pk total to get to 0, and it doubles with each successive level), to get level 4 combat, you only need 8 kills total. 8! For most "PvE" ships, combat level requirements tend to be low, so there will likewise be a low PvP requirement.
What if you only started requiring PKs at level 4 or so? From personal experience, I didn't want to take on any oldies when I was a n00b, (which was not long ago) and there weren't exactly a lot of new guys looking for a fight. When we start getting more players, I would encourage a PK requirement, but for now, we need to leave the n00bs some breathing room.
~Seldon
Mmmm...I have my doubts about this. While n00bs have access to the IBG relatively early on, you have to ferry them down to Sedina to be able to be able to continue fighting in 'em, and that's something that the Vets would do...not the n00bs. It would seem that the n00bs would resist going into Gray space until they at least have something better than the Plasma HX.
But for combat levels, there should be some element of combat involved with getting the license. With the system I suggested (1pk total to get to 0, and it doubles with each successive level), to get level 4 combat, you only need 8 kills total. 8! For most "PvE" ships, combat level requirements tend to be low, so there will likewise be a low PvP requirement.
What if you only started requiring PKs at level 4 or so? From personal experience, I didn't want to take on any oldies when I was a n00b, (which was not long ago) and there weren't exactly a lot of new guys looking for a fight. When we start getting more players, I would encourage a PK requirement, but for now, we need to leave the n00bs some breathing room.
~Seldon
Re: Harry Seldon
> What if you made the actual numbers for faction standing invisible? That would seem more like 'real life' where you know that you're regarded as a 'good guy' but you don't walk around going "one more truck route until I'm ranked 'Good Egg', w00t!"
No. That wouldn't work. It already takes more effort to go from a faction standing of 700 to one of 900 than from 0 to 700. If, say, a player only had 15 minutes to play per week and couldn't measure his/her progress accurately, then that player might become very frustrated long before achieving, say, the +960 Tunguska faction standing required for the Tunguska Centaur Aggresso. Additionally, that player would also probably forget what he/she was in the middle of achieving without some barometer of progress to check during each session.
Re: CrippledPidgeon
> With the system I suggested (1pk total to get to 0, and it doubles with each successive level), to get level 4 combat, you only need 8 kills total.
The problem with any exponential system is that it very rapidly becomes impractical after a sufficiently high level. Once the level system becomes extended to level 99, your system would no longer work.
After some point, the rate of increase in required PK's would need to be reduced from exponential to linear with a reasonable constant increase per level. For example, instead of a two-fold increase for every additional level past 9, it should be, perhaps, a fixed number of additional PK's, say, 250.
-- DekuDekuplex Ornitier
> What if you made the actual numbers for faction standing invisible? That would seem more like 'real life' where you know that you're regarded as a 'good guy' but you don't walk around going "one more truck route until I'm ranked 'Good Egg', w00t!"
No. That wouldn't work. It already takes more effort to go from a faction standing of 700 to one of 900 than from 0 to 700. If, say, a player only had 15 minutes to play per week and couldn't measure his/her progress accurately, then that player might become very frustrated long before achieving, say, the +960 Tunguska faction standing required for the Tunguska Centaur Aggresso. Additionally, that player would also probably forget what he/she was in the middle of achieving without some barometer of progress to check during each session.
Re: CrippledPidgeon
> With the system I suggested (1pk total to get to 0, and it doubles with each successive level), to get level 4 combat, you only need 8 kills total.
The problem with any exponential system is that it very rapidly becomes impractical after a sufficiently high level. Once the level system becomes extended to level 99, your system would no longer work.
After some point, the rate of increase in required PK's would need to be reduced from exponential to linear with a reasonable constant increase per level. For example, instead of a two-fold increase for every additional level past 9, it should be, perhaps, a fixed number of additional PK's, say, 250.
-- DekuDekuplex Ornitier
[large sections of post deleted, see last line]
Vendetta Online is a Player vs. Player game. Its primary focus always has been, and always should be on Player vs. Player. This is one of its strengths.
If you want Player vs. Environment, why are you playing an MMO?
But why do I bother? Nobody is listening.
-:sigma.SB
Vendetta Online is a Player vs. Player game. Its primary focus always has been, and always should be on Player vs. Player. This is one of its strengths.
If you want Player vs. Environment, why are you playing an MMO?
But why do I bother? Nobody is listening.
-:sigma.SB
I would also be conderned about required PK turning into griefing.
How about linking duel rating to access to certain ships and weapons? Or to pass beyond combat level 5?
You must duel at least 10 times and you have to get yourself above 1050 to get access? And then offer more rewards at 1100, 1200, 1300, 1400, etc...
Or would you stop dueling to lock in your ranking so you'd never lose it?
It would force the hand of all players in one way by telling them that part of the game progression requires you to fight other players, not bots. Also duels are usually consentual (both players have to send the command) so that would remove the griefing complaints.
Would players resort to dirty tricks in duels? Or would they be interesting fights and you'd have lots of offers because everyone would be looking for a duel to up their rank?
How about linking duel rating to access to certain ships and weapons? Or to pass beyond combat level 5?
You must duel at least 10 times and you have to get yourself above 1050 to get access? And then offer more rewards at 1100, 1200, 1300, 1400, etc...
Or would you stop dueling to lock in your ranking so you'd never lose it?
It would force the hand of all players in one way by telling them that part of the game progression requires you to fight other players, not bots. Also duels are usually consentual (both players have to send the command) so that would remove the griefing complaints.
Would players resort to dirty tricks in duels? Or would they be interesting fights and you'd have lots of offers because everyone would be looking for a duel to up their rank?
"I would also be conderned about required PK turning into griefing.
How about linking duel rating to access to certain ships and weapons? Or to pass beyond combat level 5?"
Well, its actually impossible to grief anyone right now as long as their levels are higher than combat 3, It won't work unless they let you. And you could make levels of the victim a requirement for the pk's to register.
The thing is, pk's are actually (up to about 400 pk's) the best indicator of fighting ability on here (I say UP to 400 pk's, cuz anything after that is just frosting). Duel rating is too related to the ships a person flies (For example, I fly a lot of ships successfully that I would never take into a duel. In a duel I only take my best ships). This is evident in the Prometheus Players having much higher average duel ratings than anyone else
For Reference:
UncleDave, Mists, Matriarch, Calder, Lonestar all use Prometheus with AGT+Flares, that's 5 of the top 7.
It just seems like duel rating is too dependent on the balance of the game.
Also, Duel rating IS a zero sum game, which would mean that some people might NEVER get certain ships. And since all the players with higher duel ratings would have better ships, getting themselves out of the hole might be too hard.
How about linking duel rating to access to certain ships and weapons? Or to pass beyond combat level 5?"
Well, its actually impossible to grief anyone right now as long as their levels are higher than combat 3, It won't work unless they let you. And you could make levels of the victim a requirement for the pk's to register.
The thing is, pk's are actually (up to about 400 pk's) the best indicator of fighting ability on here (I say UP to 400 pk's, cuz anything after that is just frosting). Duel rating is too related to the ships a person flies (For example, I fly a lot of ships successfully that I would never take into a duel. In a duel I only take my best ships). This is evident in the Prometheus Players having much higher average duel ratings than anyone else
For Reference:
UncleDave, Mists, Matriarch, Calder, Lonestar all use Prometheus with AGT+Flares, that's 5 of the top 7.
It just seems like duel rating is too dependent on the balance of the game.
Also, Duel rating IS a zero sum game, which would mean that some people might NEVER get certain ships. And since all the players with higher duel ratings would have better ships, getting themselves out of the hole might be too hard.
Mmmm...I have my doubts about this. While n00bs have access to the IBG relatively early on, you have to ferry them down to Sedina to be able to be able to continue fighting in 'em, and that's something that the Vets would do...not the n00bs. It would seem that the n00bs would resist going into Gray space until they at least have something better than the Plasma HX.
-Harry Seldon
I was just using two nation specific ships as an example. But look at the Rev-C Centurion.
What if you only started requiring PKs at level 4 or so? From personal experience, I didn't want to take on any oldies when I was a n00b, (which was not long ago) and there weren't exactly a lot of new guys looking for a fight. When we start getting more players, I would encourage a PK requirement, but for now, we need to leave the n00bs some breathing room.
-Harry Seldon
We could say that duels count towards your pk count. And adding a pk requirement would likely cause newbies to venture out and interact with other players. Two newbies from the same nation could duel each other, or if they're from a different nation, agree to meet somewhere and fight.
I would also be conderned about required PK turning into griefing.
How about linking duel rating to access to certain ships and weapons? Or to pass beyond combat level 5?
You must duel at least 10 times and you have to get yourself above 1050 to get access? And then offer more rewards at 1100, 1200, 1300, 1400, etc...
Or would you stop dueling to lock in your ranking so you'd never lose it?
-sarahanne
Well here's what I'd written
0 -> 1 = 1pk total
1 -> 2 = 2pk total
2 -> 3 = 4pk total
3 -> 4 = 8pk total
4 -> 5 = 16pk total
5 -> 6 = 32pk total
6 -> 7 = 64pk total
7 -> 8 = 128pk total
8 -> 9 = 256pk total
9 -> 10 = 512pk total
After this point, as DekuDekuplex said, it becomes impractical, so linear progression would be a more realistic requirement:
10 -> 11 = 768pk total
11 -> 12 = 1024pk total
etc.
But since there aren't a lot of PvPers who are above level 9 or 10, I don't really see this being a problem at this time.
I don't see griefing becoming a terrific problem, even for the higher levels, in no small part due to the fact that griefing is so damn hard nowadays. If one went around killing newbies in nation space to get pks, then they'd have a massive bounty and everyone in the game would be hunting them down. Not only that, but they'd be taking combat exp hits for killing people with low levels, so they'd be working against themselves in the process.
And otherwise, you'd be a pretty active pvper anyway, so you wouldn't need to resort to griefing to get the kills.
I think that dueling should count towards the pk count, but I don't believe that duel rating should have an effect. For instance, I primarily fly the Atlas X as my combat ship, and while (just by my own observation) I'd probably in the to 10% of all Atlas/Hog drivers, just the simple fact that neither the Hog nor the Atlas are great fighters means that even the difference between a win and a loss can very literally be the difference between flying perfectly and flying near perfectly. Thus, my duel rating never rises very high.
-Harry Seldon
I was just using two nation specific ships as an example. But look at the Rev-C Centurion.
What if you only started requiring PKs at level 4 or so? From personal experience, I didn't want to take on any oldies when I was a n00b, (which was not long ago) and there weren't exactly a lot of new guys looking for a fight. When we start getting more players, I would encourage a PK requirement, but for now, we need to leave the n00bs some breathing room.
-Harry Seldon
We could say that duels count towards your pk count. And adding a pk requirement would likely cause newbies to venture out and interact with other players. Two newbies from the same nation could duel each other, or if they're from a different nation, agree to meet somewhere and fight.
I would also be conderned about required PK turning into griefing.
How about linking duel rating to access to certain ships and weapons? Or to pass beyond combat level 5?
You must duel at least 10 times and you have to get yourself above 1050 to get access? And then offer more rewards at 1100, 1200, 1300, 1400, etc...
Or would you stop dueling to lock in your ranking so you'd never lose it?
-sarahanne
Well here's what I'd written
0 -> 1 = 1pk total
1 -> 2 = 2pk total
2 -> 3 = 4pk total
3 -> 4 = 8pk total
4 -> 5 = 16pk total
5 -> 6 = 32pk total
6 -> 7 = 64pk total
7 -> 8 = 128pk total
8 -> 9 = 256pk total
9 -> 10 = 512pk total
After this point, as DekuDekuplex said, it becomes impractical, so linear progression would be a more realistic requirement:
10 -> 11 = 768pk total
11 -> 12 = 1024pk total
etc.
But since there aren't a lot of PvPers who are above level 9 or 10, I don't really see this being a problem at this time.
I don't see griefing becoming a terrific problem, even for the higher levels, in no small part due to the fact that griefing is so damn hard nowadays. If one went around killing newbies in nation space to get pks, then they'd have a massive bounty and everyone in the game would be hunting them down. Not only that, but they'd be taking combat exp hits for killing people with low levels, so they'd be working against themselves in the process.
And otherwise, you'd be a pretty active pvper anyway, so you wouldn't need to resort to griefing to get the kills.
I think that dueling should count towards the pk count, but I don't believe that duel rating should have an effect. For instance, I primarily fly the Atlas X as my combat ship, and while (just by my own observation) I'd probably in the to 10% of all Atlas/Hog drivers, just the simple fact that neither the Hog nor the Atlas are great fighters means that even the difference between a win and a loss can very literally be the difference between flying perfectly and flying near perfectly. Thus, my duel rating never rises very high.