Forums » Bugs
Player capship exclusion from fighter skirmish in Deneb
I'm not 100% certain this is a bug but it does not seem like an intended interaction.
I had killed a turret this morning in a Deneb sector, initiating a fighter skirmish. My active ship had been excluded at that time, but upon docking with my goliath, it was targeted by the unaligned pirate ships due to being considered a non-military vessel. The server messages states "You have violated the rules by docking with a non-military vessel and the vessel is now the enemy of both sides until it leaves." I had left the sector by jumping to Deneb O-3, the unaligned ships followed until the goliath was killed.
Shouldn't player capital ships be excluded, the same as the player is?
I had killed a turret this morning in a Deneb sector, initiating a fighter skirmish. My active ship had been excluded at that time, but upon docking with my goliath, it was targeted by the unaligned pirate ships due to being considered a non-military vessel. The server messages states "You have violated the rules by docking with a non-military vessel and the vessel is now the enemy of both sides until it leaves." I had left the sector by jumping to Deneb O-3, the unaligned ships followed until the goliath was killed.
Shouldn't player capital ships be excluded, the same as the player is?
As mentioned on Discord, this was created to counteract exploit issues. It is not a bug. Don't bring your personal capship to Deneb.
If your capship had left Deneb entirely, the pursuit would have stopped at the border. But, we had to make it this way to actually meaningfully halt the problems at the time.
Perhaps more warnings should probably be added for any player-capship entering Deneb, although that probably still won't resolve the issue.
If your capship had left Deneb entirely, the pursuit would have stopped at the border. But, we had to make it this way to actually meaningfully halt the problems at the time.
Perhaps more warnings should probably be added for any player-capship entering Deneb, although that probably still won't resolve the issue.
Do unrats spawn in other skirmishes if you dock with a capital ship while being in a mission? I haven't had any spawn on me unless things have changed recently.
If not, they should either spawn them for all skirmishes, or not for any.
If not, they should either spawn them for all skirmishes, or not for any.
Deneb has specific considerations, and specific types of gameplay and issues that were exploited. I don't know if you're asking about Hive skirmishes or what. In general, you do not want to bring a personal capship to Deneb. Docking to your respective Deneb-provided military capships is (obviously) fine.
If people want to make Suggestions, there's a different forum for that.
If people want to make Suggestions, there's a different forum for that.
I meant bringing your capital ship to a deneb skirmish. Docking with it in a skirmish sector doesn't trigger unrats afaik, whereas it seems to do for the above scenario that OP described(also a skirmish).
Shouldn't it be consistent across skirmishes?
Shouldn't it be consistent across skirmishes?
I don't remember the exact specifics of how the system is implemented, right now. I think there was an intent to be as minimally invasive as possible, and let people still spectate without influencing the battle.
So, if they participate and then repair/rearm, that might be bad, or if they shoot enemies with turrets, clearly.. but again, I don't remember offhand. The recommendation is just "don't go to Deneb with your personal capship".
I don't think there are any Bugs here, at this time.
So, if they participate and then repair/rearm, that might be bad, or if they shoot enemies with turrets, clearly.. but again, I don't remember offhand. The recommendation is just "don't go to Deneb with your personal capship".
I don't think there are any Bugs here, at this time.
I've been actively building a Goliath for my Deneb alt just to use in skirmish missions. If the general direction here is going to be the game fights you tooth and nail for doing so maybe I need to reconsider that.
Are player capships effectively banned from use in the Deneb war?
Are player capships effectively banned from use in the Deneb war?
I think the original thread from 2021 can illustrate the discussion best. I'd recommend reading the whole thing carefully, there's a lot to unpack.
The (somewhat) TL; DR version is, at the moment:
- The concept of Deneb, and any "purely military" conflict, is that players would be equipped by their Nation, and accrue advancement in "rank" allowing command of more elaborate ships (or other features) based on Military-specific success and experience, rather than personal-wealth.
- Deneb has also had previous issues (not entirely referenced in that above thread) with experienced players rolling through and effectively "winning" the entire conflict for a given week, by judicious usage of their personal capship. A well-operated player capship is going to be a lot more effective than the NPC capships, and often individual Deneb battles can be contested by a single person, meaning they don't have much opposition.
So, if we want to give the "winning" of Deneb more meaning (than rando mediocre-blockade), then allowing it to be exploited by individuals is problematic.
Similarly, if we wanted Deneb to really be a "military" style experience, then that runs counter to having player-owned capships participating. Do we want to have a rank-system, or just player-wealth? Deneb was intended for the former.
None of this is sacred-cow stuff, it could be altered down the road and is open to further Suggestions, but I don't currently find obvious fault with my reasoning from 2021, given the stated goals and intentions of Deneb, and the current ramifications of player capships.
There are also other plans for other types of dynamic conflicts, within grayspace, that are not driven by the rules of Deneb. That's a bit out of scope, but FYI in terms of Goliath utility or whatever. I don't anticipate the same restrictions would be applied there.
The (somewhat) TL; DR version is, at the moment:
- The concept of Deneb, and any "purely military" conflict, is that players would be equipped by their Nation, and accrue advancement in "rank" allowing command of more elaborate ships (or other features) based on Military-specific success and experience, rather than personal-wealth.
- Deneb has also had previous issues (not entirely referenced in that above thread) with experienced players rolling through and effectively "winning" the entire conflict for a given week, by judicious usage of their personal capship. A well-operated player capship is going to be a lot more effective than the NPC capships, and often individual Deneb battles can be contested by a single person, meaning they don't have much opposition.
So, if we want to give the "winning" of Deneb more meaning (than rando mediocre-blockade), then allowing it to be exploited by individuals is problematic.
Similarly, if we wanted Deneb to really be a "military" style experience, then that runs counter to having player-owned capships participating. Do we want to have a rank-system, or just player-wealth? Deneb was intended for the former.
None of this is sacred-cow stuff, it could be altered down the road and is open to further Suggestions, but I don't currently find obvious fault with my reasoning from 2021, given the stated goals and intentions of Deneb, and the current ramifications of player capships.
There are also other plans for other types of dynamic conflicts, within grayspace, that are not driven by the rules of Deneb. That's a bit out of scope, but FYI in terms of Goliath utility or whatever. I don't anticipate the same restrictions would be applied there.