Forums » Bugs
With the new addition of activateturrets, players that do not use multiple clients to create gunner bots are at a major disadvantage. The few select that have these gunner bots are able to shoot all turrets forward with high success.
To balance this disadvantage for single client players, all plugins scripts should be paused once a gunner enters a turret of a player owned capship.
To balance this disadvantage for single client players, all plugins scripts should be paused once a gunner enters a turret of a player owned capship.
What are you talking about? The turrets are limited on their firing arc, whether it's a "bot/player" or usage of "activateturrets". They have been for years.
They use exactly the same targeting system. The "bots" use the game's internal targeting system, and so does "activateturrets".
If a capship has you selected, and uses activateturrets, and simply holds down their fire button, they will fire on you from any given turret (or group of turrets) once you become visible to those turret(s).
Neither of them can cause turrets to fire more "forward" than any other, via any methodology that I've heard of. If people have some kind of bug report to make, that would be made in Bugs.
But, as far as I can tell.. this "problem" is made-up by misunderstanding and rumors.
They use exactly the same targeting system. The "bots" use the game's internal targeting system, and so does "activateturrets".
If a capship has you selected, and uses activateturrets, and simply holds down their fire button, they will fire on you from any given turret (or group of turrets) once you become visible to those turret(s).
Neither of them can cause turrets to fire more "forward" than any other, via any methodology that I've heard of. If people have some kind of bug report to make, that would be made in Bugs.
But, as far as I can tell.. this "problem" is made-up by misunderstanding and rumors.
Gunners have an advantage because they fire 4 forward at once and the most activate turrets will is 2... Disable plugins might not be best idea I wouldn't like it. I use plugin to target not sensor log.
How about an equal function of activateturrets??
"+Activateturrets forward" fires all energy turrets continuously or one burst of missiles!
Leveling the playing field seems like a better idea than removing anything.
How about an equal function of activateturrets??
"+Activateturrets forward" fires all energy turrets continuously or one burst of missiles!
Leveling the playing field seems like a better idea than removing anything.
@inc only some turret weapons are arc limited, that’s why people keep bringing this up.
Yeah blazzzy's idea sounds much better.
@inc only some turret weapons are arc limited, that’s why people keep bringing this up.
Whether weapons are arc-limited or not, they're exactly the same regardless of whether they're "bot" or "activateturrets".
Gunners have an advantage because they fire 4 forward at once and the most activate turrets will is 2...
I tested the ActivateTurrets feature, prior to release, with a big capship with a hell of a lot more than four weapons, and I was firing more than four at once. This sounds like a "Bug".
Which is why I keep saying, if there's a Bug, post it to Bugs. A difference in behaviour between "player" (or bot) turrets and "activate" turrets is not currently known by the developers. If such a difference existed, you would want to post exactly what configurations demonstrate a differential, so we can investigate and fix any problems.
None of this has anything at all to do with "bots", people need to let go of that and just clearly define the actual problem (a difference in basic turret functionality), if one were to exist.
Whether weapons are arc-limited or not, they're exactly the same regardless of whether they're "bot" or "activateturrets".
Gunners have an advantage because they fire 4 forward at once and the most activate turrets will is 2...
I tested the ActivateTurrets feature, prior to release, with a big capship with a hell of a lot more than four weapons, and I was firing more than four at once. This sounds like a "Bug".
Which is why I keep saying, if there's a Bug, post it to Bugs. A difference in behaviour between "player" (or bot) turrets and "activate" turrets is not currently known by the developers. If such a difference existed, you would want to post exactly what configurations demonstrate a differential, so we can investigate and fix any problems.
None of this has anything at all to do with "bots", people need to let go of that and just clearly define the actual problem (a difference in basic turret functionality), if one were to exist.
I didn’t think it was a bug, the turret fires when it can aim at the target recticle, so it working from the center point of the target, not the entire length. Two turrets can line up on the target at a time, so only they fire.
Four turrets blindly firing forward because of players in the turret does not rely on the targeting system
Four turrets blindly firing forward because of players in the turret does not rely on the targeting system
Four turrets blindly firing forward because of players in the turret does not rely on the targeting system
What weapons are people "blindly firing forward" that's causing this issue?
I didn’t think it was a bug, the turret fires when it can aim at the target recticle, so it working from the center point of the target, not the entire length. Two turrets can line up on the target at a time, so only they fire.
Well, if there's a difference in automated targeting, that would be a bug. But what you described is "blindly firing forward", which is a different thing, and sounds like it is not targeted at all.
Can someone please explain the exact usage-case and differentials here? Without ranting about "bots"?
This still isn't a "bot" problem. If there's some issue, like turrets won't fire on a large capship at close-proximity because center-of-mass is still concealed, that would be a useful point to bring up. Perhaps we could detect on edge-of-hull on Large-class ships, or various other solutions.
But, I need clear definitions and examples of the actual problem.
What weapons are people "blindly firing forward" that's causing this issue?
I didn’t think it was a bug, the turret fires when it can aim at the target recticle, so it working from the center point of the target, not the entire length. Two turrets can line up on the target at a time, so only they fire.
Well, if there's a difference in automated targeting, that would be a bug. But what you described is "blindly firing forward", which is a different thing, and sounds like it is not targeted at all.
Can someone please explain the exact usage-case and differentials here? Without ranting about "bots"?
This still isn't a "bot" problem. If there's some issue, like turrets won't fire on a large capship at close-proximity because center-of-mass is still concealed, that would be a useful point to bring up. Perhaps we could detect on edge-of-hull on Large-class ships, or various other solutions.
But, I need clear definitions and examples of the actual problem.
are able to shoot all turrets forward
The same exact phrase is being used by forum names i have never seen before. I would probably assume that PEOPLE are not saying this, but the same PERSON is saying this with forums alts.
The same exact phrase is being used by forum names i have never seen before. I would probably assume that PEOPLE are not saying this, but the same PERSON is saying this with forums alts.
Players leave a gunner in said turret and some how lock pitch facing the front of the ship and simply toggle firing it with a command. Could be locked on target but still facing forward.
I would probably assume that PEOPLE are not saying this, but the same PERSON is saying this with forums alts.
Just to remind everyone, forum alts are not allowed, and people have been banned from the forums for using them. We don't (currently) care if you have a dedicated account for the forums, but consistently use the same account, every single time you post, and don't go posting different things from different "personas". We've had too many people trying to manipulate Suggestions, and "agreeing with themselves" and other BS.
Back to the topic at hand..
Just to remind everyone, forum alts are not allowed, and people have been banned from the forums for using them. We don't (currently) care if you have a dedicated account for the forums, but consistently use the same account, every single time you post, and don't go posting different things from different "personas". We've had too many people trying to manipulate Suggestions, and "agreeing with themselves" and other BS.
Back to the topic at hand..
Players leave a gunner in said turret and some how lock pitch facing the front of the ship
I've used a gunner before.. You know the secret behind using a gunner? The dirty little secret about it? You have to manually aim it with your hand. As inc said in another thread: (paraphrasing here) they are clunky. The activateturrets way is so much more elegant.
I've used a gunner before.. You know the secret behind using a gunner? The dirty little secret about it? You have to manually aim it with your hand. As inc said in another thread: (paraphrasing here) they are clunky. The activateturrets way is so much more elegant.
If this is just a "weapons-forward" issue, and some weapon(s) didn't have their firing arc set correctly, that's relatively easy to change by just limiting all their firing arcs the same way (which, frankly, is how I thought it was already).
But, I still don't know if there's some other trade-off, where manual firing is more useful than automated firing, because of automated-targeting not triggering on larger ships or something.
But, I still don't know if there's some other trade-off, where manual firing is more useful than automated firing, because of automated-targeting not triggering on larger ships or something.
I can't be bothered to figure out how to setup 3-4 gunners and aim them. I'd rather just play and enjoy the game and possibly have the same firepower as those who fire forward. I love capship battles even more since these recent changes and I don't think gunner bots are an issue just think it should be something we can all do.
Testing activateturrets with something we cannot fly is unvise. All we have are tridents and goliaths, and nothing like a hac or connie. The ability to lock turret targeting to forward would be nice.
Or
Make so we can put turrets in a group like normal port addons, so we can fire them at the same time. Activateturrets could handle the things like now, but there could be a command like "/TurretLock Forward". This would lock turret pitch in place, and enable the ability to fire turrets using the triggers.
Also this trigger firing could make so we can fire the turrets manually while they automatically aiming, but chossing which ones we want to fire.
These could be the solutions to really put the turret botters on hold and give every pilot the same thing, and balance powers.
Or
Make so we can put turrets in a group like normal port addons, so we can fire them at the same time. Activateturrets could handle the things like now, but there could be a command like "/TurretLock Forward". This would lock turret pitch in place, and enable the ability to fire turrets using the triggers.
Also this trigger firing could make so we can fire the turrets manually while they automatically aiming, but chossing which ones we want to fire.
These could be the solutions to really put the turret botters on hold and give every pilot the same thing, and balance powers.
It definitely helps on large targets like in deneb.
Testing activateturrets with something we cannot fly is unvise.
It was an example. We tested it in a lot of different cases, with different ships and loadouts, some of which are released and some are not. Jesus.
Make so we can put turrets in a group like normal port addons..
To clarify: PLEASE LIMIT FURTHER POSTS HERE TO DESCRIBING THE PROBLEM.
I'm actually not interested in player-solutions. This is simply a Bug. I need to understand the problem, not what-you-think-should-be-done.
It was an example. We tested it in a lot of different cases, with different ships and loadouts, some of which are released and some are not. Jesus.
Make so we can put turrets in a group like normal port addons..
To clarify: PLEASE LIMIT FURTHER POSTS HERE TO DESCRIBING THE PROBLEM.
I'm actually not interested in player-solutions. This is simply a Bug. I need to understand the problem, not what-you-think-should-be-done.
Its not a bug. At least to me. Bots likely set up in a way so multiple game clients are opened, and some plugin makes the gunner alts fire without user input, just by activating firing via command and holding its pitch to fire forward. These bots DOES BOT AFFECTED BY TURRET ARCS that much. They likely just fire constantly just by holding the turret at its edge of aiming arc, firing constantly and relying in the targets hitbox to hit them. Its different from activateturrets because of this.
This can be solved by simply limiting turrets ability to fire outside of their aiming arc except missiles, by distrupting fire when the target isnt in the turrets reticle. Even when the user and not some bots want to fire them. Bad, sure. But I think this could solve this... to some level.
This can be solved by simply limiting turrets ability to fire outside of their aiming arc except missiles, by distrupting fire when the target isnt in the turrets reticle. Even when the user and not some bots want to fire them. Bad, sure. But I think this could solve this... to some level.
HunPredator has a reading-comprehension problem and has been muted from further contributions to the thread. 50% of his content is providing "solutions" I explicitly said I didn't want, and arguing with me about whether this is a "Bug".
Like I just said, I am treating this as a Bug. I don't care if you agree or not. There is not intended to be a differential in capabilities between "player" and "activate" turrets. If one exists, I simply need the cases explained. This is "not functioning as intended", which makes it a bug.
I didn't realize firing angle limits were different on various Turret weapons, I had no recollection of that. As far as I am currently concerned, ALSO A BUG. Bugs are not simply programmatic flaws, but also the wrong numbers being entered or used, like the recent economic drama.
I've asked for specific examples and situations:
- Weapon loadouts being used primarily for the "blind firing" technique.
I'm not interested in hearing how players think it should be solved. I JUST WROTE THAT ABOVE.
The most frustrating part of this, is it could have been trivially handled by a simple post or Ticket explaining what the technical problem was, what the differential of capabilities were, instead of say.. long, confused, ranting posts about bots, or dumb threads like this one about "Bots". Bots are not the problem.
I don't have a lot of time for this kind of forum interaction in the first place (not if we want any positive changes in the game to actually happen). But this sort of BS really burns it all up, as I sit here repeatedly trying to get people to simply explain the ****ing problem, and instead I tend to get flooded with "opinions".
The core difference between a Bug Report and a Feature Suggestion, is that the former really mandates no opinions.
Like I just said, I am treating this as a Bug. I don't care if you agree or not. There is not intended to be a differential in capabilities between "player" and "activate" turrets. If one exists, I simply need the cases explained. This is "not functioning as intended", which makes it a bug.
I didn't realize firing angle limits were different on various Turret weapons, I had no recollection of that. As far as I am currently concerned, ALSO A BUG. Bugs are not simply programmatic flaws, but also the wrong numbers being entered or used, like the recent economic drama.
I've asked for specific examples and situations:
- Weapon loadouts being used primarily for the "blind firing" technique.
I'm not interested in hearing how players think it should be solved. I JUST WROTE THAT ABOVE.
The most frustrating part of this, is it could have been trivially handled by a simple post or Ticket explaining what the technical problem was, what the differential of capabilities were, instead of say.. long, confused, ranting posts about bots, or dumb threads like this one about "Bots". Bots are not the problem.
I don't have a lot of time for this kind of forum interaction in the first place (not if we want any positive changes in the game to actually happen). But this sort of BS really burns it all up, as I sit here repeatedly trying to get people to simply explain the ****ing problem, and instead I tend to get flooded with "opinions".
The core difference between a Bug Report and a Feature Suggestion, is that the former really mandates no opinions.
Well how about this gets moved to bugs then?