Forums » Bugs
Gotta Captcha 'em all!
I am getting a host of captchas, including as I jump into hostile sectors. Is this due to my habit of logging in for hours and not actively flying (i.e. docked or drifting)?
you are behaving like a bot so yes thats prolly it
OK, so can I do something to mitigate them? I am getting them with very annoying frequency, as I jump into hostile sectors, or step away to make a cuppa (just came back now to find myself logged out).
When I log in, or dock I can deal with, but this is risking my ships and cargo, and seems very excessive.
When I log in, or dock I can deal with, but this is risking my ships and cargo, and seems very excessive.
Since the change to tempKOS only counting time when logged in, I am also currently getting a (less frequent but still very annoying) CAPTCHA as I am flying around. Sure, I should be log off at the end of a session (and for the last couple of days I have been, as I have not violated any 24 hour timers) and then this would not happen, but then I would have to wait weeks instead of days for a 24 hour KOS to expire. Yes I am not going to log off when that is a punishment.
This wouldn't be bad if they popped up after a short time docked (even if they kick me off halting the kos-timer), or with no input, but they are literally popping up when I am changing systems, so am obviously active. I actually have only been logged out once now, so I guess my "bot level" isn't quite as high as some. For reference I have a full subscription, and I understand about the bot problem, but as this is happening when I am quite plainly active then I personally consider this a bug and it is maybe something that should be looked at.
This wouldn't be bad if they popped up after a short time docked (even if they kick me off halting the kos-timer), or with no input, but they are literally popping up when I am changing systems, so am obviously active. I actually have only been logged out once now, so I guess my "bot level" isn't quite as high as some. For reference I have a full subscription, and I understand about the bot problem, but as this is happening when I am quite plainly active then I personally consider this a bug and it is maybe something that should be looked at.
Maybe a 10 minute warning before the captcha appears would be helpful. See/Hear the warning, best stop screwing around and pay attention to the PC (thinking of people who occasionally wander off for a few minutes at a time). Having the warning would also allow people to be ambushed by the captcha while in combat. I don't recall many fights I've been in that lasted longer then 10 minutes, though I'm not particularly hung up on that particular amount of time.
Problem is Look, that wouldn't actually help really. I have left my toon sat in a station for 12 hours while I sleep, and wake up with no CAPTCHA and no problems, but then 2 hours later, when I am actually active, I get a CAPTCHA. This thing pops up while I am actively flying (usually when entering a dangerous sector too), hence the bug report. So a warning wouldn't help, as I'm not AFK or messing about, I'm actually active and flying. I cannot get 'more active' without also getting younger!
This is the reason for the report, if it was happening when I was AFK, and I came back to this then that wouldn't be a problem. These things happen and it is by choice that I AFK/get rid of tempKOS, but the CAPTCHA then popping up over and over for the next few days while I am actually active? (active as in, flying around, chatting on 100 and actually changing systems, not sat in empty pissing about) Yea, that is annoying, and probably not what is intended. If the CAPTCHAS are intended to drive real players botty (I've made a simple script to warp between empty sectors when I need to AFK), then consider me a bot, but if the CAPCTHAS are only intended to annoy "bot" makers, then this might need looking at.
This is the reason for the report, if it was happening when I was AFK, and I came back to this then that wouldn't be a problem. These things happen and it is by choice that I AFK/get rid of tempKOS, but the CAPTCHA then popping up over and over for the next few days while I am actually active? (active as in, flying around, chatting on 100 and actually changing systems, not sat in empty pissing about) Yea, that is annoying, and probably not what is intended. If the CAPTCHAS are intended to drive real players botty (I've made a simple script to warp between empty sectors when I need to AFK), then consider me a bot, but if the CAPCTHAS are only intended to annoy "bot" makers, then this might need looking at.
So, you say this:
but as this is happening when I am quite plainly active then I personally consider this a bug and it is maybe something that should be looked at.
And then you also say:
(I've made a simple script to warp between empty sectors when I need to AFK)
The whole reason why the CAPTCHA system doesn't consider you being "plainly active" is because "activity" can be simulated in an automated manner, in exactly the way you describe.
Basically, you're saying that you're getting TempKoS, but you don't want to have to play by the actual rules and endure that inconvenience during real gameplay time. So, you've effectively created a bot to burn-down TempKoS time, and you're annoyed that this is causing you to actually be flagged as a bot, and therefore get CAPTCHAs popping up.
As far as I can tell, everything you describe is behaving as intended?
If you want to avoid CAPTCHAs, then:
1) Log off when you are not actively playing the game.
2) If, for some reason, you have to be AFK, stay docked in a single station (like the store-bots).
(#2 option is only available to Premium subscribers, but we make it possible for store-bots, for now).
Don't try to be clever and write scripts that fly your ship around. Those aren't fooling anyone, and if anything, they're more likely to get you flagged as a bot.
You're basically mis-correlating how the system works, and making a lot of assumptions about the system that are largely incorrect. Stick to the two rules I posted above.
We are not going to publicly explain how the system works, but it's fairly complex and there are a lot of different factors. Generally speaking, you have to be doing something inappropriate (like trying to run a spy-bot, or sitting around AFK in space) in order to run afoul of the detection.
Keep in mind, we don't really want people sitting around AFK at all. It's bad for the server: it forces the sectors to stay online, it makes load-balancing the server and game-maintenance more complex, it's kind of a hassle. We put up with it, for now, because of store-bots, but that may eventually change whenever we can add a proper in-game system to do that.
but as this is happening when I am quite plainly active then I personally consider this a bug and it is maybe something that should be looked at.
And then you also say:
(I've made a simple script to warp between empty sectors when I need to AFK)
The whole reason why the CAPTCHA system doesn't consider you being "plainly active" is because "activity" can be simulated in an automated manner, in exactly the way you describe.
Basically, you're saying that you're getting TempKoS, but you don't want to have to play by the actual rules and endure that inconvenience during real gameplay time. So, you've effectively created a bot to burn-down TempKoS time, and you're annoyed that this is causing you to actually be flagged as a bot, and therefore get CAPTCHAs popping up.
As far as I can tell, everything you describe is behaving as intended?
If you want to avoid CAPTCHAs, then:
1) Log off when you are not actively playing the game.
2) If, for some reason, you have to be AFK, stay docked in a single station (like the store-bots).
(#2 option is only available to Premium subscribers, but we make it possible for store-bots, for now).
Don't try to be clever and write scripts that fly your ship around. Those aren't fooling anyone, and if anything, they're more likely to get you flagged as a bot.
You're basically mis-correlating how the system works, and making a lot of assumptions about the system that are largely incorrect. Stick to the two rules I posted above.
We are not going to publicly explain how the system works, but it's fairly complex and there are a lot of different factors. Generally speaking, you have to be doing something inappropriate (like trying to run a spy-bot, or sitting around AFK in space) in order to run afoul of the detection.
Keep in mind, we don't really want people sitting around AFK at all. It's bad for the server: it forces the sectors to stay online, it makes load-balancing the server and game-maintenance more complex, it's kind of a hassle. We put up with it, for now, because of store-bots, but that may eventually change whenever we can add a proper in-game system to do that.
I created the bot yesterday Incarnate, so I created it to avoid the CAPTCHA, not the other way around. I have been dealing with this for weeks, and didn't mention it here as I kind of know what I am doing is not the nicest, but now others have brought up the subject? I only get the CAPTCHA if I leave myself logged in inactive/in station. I don't know how effective my bot is yet (it simply warps about a pre-defined navroute, then re-loads the route and repeats, it is not complex), but I guess I will find out later. Yes, to me personally this seems like a bug. If you say it is not, then I will deal with it the best I can.
Yes why would I accept punishment when there is a way to avoid it? Human nature states I wouldn't? Would you spend 10 years in jail if there was an option to wait it out for a week in court? This isn't a punishment per-se, it is simply an annoyance, but I guess debating this isn't for this thread.
Yes why would I accept punishment when there is a way to avoid it? Human nature states I wouldn't? Would you spend 10 years in jail if there was an option to wait it out for a week in court? This isn't a punishment per-se, it is simply an annoyance, but I guess debating this isn't for this thread.
I only get the CAPTCHA if I leave myself logged in inactive/in station. I don't know how effective my bot is yet (it simply warps about a pre-defined navroute, then re-loads the route and repeats, it is not complex), but I guess I will find out later. Yes, to me personally this seems like a bug. If you say it is not, then I will deal with it the best I can.
No, you're just confused, and applying your own assumptions to an intentional injection of randomized timing, from a system that does long-term analysis of your overall behaviour. It's sometimes called "Apophenia", the human propensity to seek patterns in random information; although in this case it's more like mis-construing information (mis-correlating and making wrong assumptions, as I said earlier).
Yes why would I accept punishment when there is a way to avoid it?
There isn't one. You're just naive. You believe the system is trivial and can be easily avoided, simply because it tries to be "gentle" to avoid false positives, escalates slowly, and accumulates data over a long period.
Good for you. When you eventually get escalated to full bot status, don't open a ticket asking us to remove it. You will have earned it. Have fun with that.
No, you're just confused, and applying your own assumptions to an intentional injection of randomized timing, from a system that does long-term analysis of your overall behaviour. It's sometimes called "Apophenia", the human propensity to seek patterns in random information; although in this case it's more like mis-construing information (mis-correlating and making wrong assumptions, as I said earlier).
Yes why would I accept punishment when there is a way to avoid it?
There isn't one. You're just naive. You believe the system is trivial and can be easily avoided, simply because it tries to be "gentle" to avoid false positives, escalates slowly, and accumulates data over a long period.
Good for you. When you eventually get escalated to full bot status, don't open a ticket asking us to remove it. You will have earned it. Have fun with that.
But you said if I sit in a station I wont get a CAPTCHA, but I do. I don't care about being a "full bot" status, this is unlikely to happen as it is not like I trigger a 24 hour KOS daily, but when I do I quickly get marked as a bot, weather I sit in a station or not. But then I will play for weeks without a single AFK session, moving me back down the bot level (I am currently flying around CAPTCHA free).
If you are saying, and it seems you are, that a full subbed player can sit in a station then I will do this. Simple. But if I continue to get CAPTCHA as a full subbed player who AFK's in a station can I at least report that?
If you are saying, and it seems you are, that a full subbed player can sit in a station then I will do this. Simple. But if I continue to get CAPTCHA as a full subbed player who AFK's in a station can I at least report that?
But you said if I sit in a station I wont get a CAPTCHA, but I do.
Actually, that isn't what I said. I said a single station. But you personally are already too far past that. I was making a general statement to "players at large" (threads like this tend to get referenced), but in your case, you really just need to do #1 and just log off when you're done playing.
I don't care about being a "full bot" status, this is unlikely to happen as it is not like I trigger a 24 hour KOS daily, but when I do I quickly get marked as a bot, weather I sit in a station or not. But then I will play for weeks without a single AFK session, moving me back down the bot level (I am currently flying around CAPTCHA free).
(Double facepalm). That is not how it works. The system that is in your head is not what we wrote.
If you are saying, and it seems you are, that a full subbed player can sit in a station then I will do this. Simple. But if I continue to get CAPTCHA as a full subbed player who AFK's in a station can I at least report that?
The store-bots have been fine. There was a false-positive problem, earlier this year, but it was fixed. So, clearly, store-bots are able to sit, in a single station, for a long period of time, not going anywhere at all, and not receive a CAPTCHA.
What has been happening to you is exactly as intended. I know exactly why it's happenig, and it's just fine. You need to take my advice and log-off when you're done playing.
THERE IS NO BUG HERE.
Actually, that isn't what I said. I said a single station. But you personally are already too far past that. I was making a general statement to "players at large" (threads like this tend to get referenced), but in your case, you really just need to do #1 and just log off when you're done playing.
I don't care about being a "full bot" status, this is unlikely to happen as it is not like I trigger a 24 hour KOS daily, but when I do I quickly get marked as a bot, weather I sit in a station or not. But then I will play for weeks without a single AFK session, moving me back down the bot level (I am currently flying around CAPTCHA free).
(Double facepalm). That is not how it works. The system that is in your head is not what we wrote.
If you are saying, and it seems you are, that a full subbed player can sit in a station then I will do this. Simple. But if I continue to get CAPTCHA as a full subbed player who AFK's in a station can I at least report that?
The store-bots have been fine. There was a false-positive problem, earlier this year, but it was fixed. So, clearly, store-bots are able to sit, in a single station, for a long period of time, not going anywhere at all, and not receive a CAPTCHA.
What has been happening to you is exactly as intended. I know exactly why it's happenig, and it's just fine. You need to take my advice and log-off when you're done playing.
THERE IS NO BUG HERE.