Say I explode and kill someone in the sector, it still counts toward the three-kill 24hKOS ban.

Stop exploding on people?

lol.

Maybe you shouldn't explode then.

I approve of this explosion effect. And of KOS'ing your crap bots. :)
-1 to op. Not a bug.

I'm not interested in whatever reason you think I'm reporting this. This is potentially exploitable, and most definitely not intended behaviour. Fix it as such.

Doesn't it only count that as a kill when the person your explosion killed had not aggressed you and had non-hated standing with the governing faction? I don't remember the precise details of the new system.

It works the same way as if you bumped someone to death. The kill counts, but while there is no faction standing loss, it still adds one kill to the 24hKOS penalty.

This means that you could fly around UIT space (while disliked or better) in a ship with 0.01% and run into a newb 3 times and they'll get 24hKOS. Explosions should not be treated as an intended kill weapon (since they are out of a person's control), and therefore should not trigger 24hKOS ban penalty (if done in succession).

The scenario you just described has nothing to do with the OP. At no point in that scenario is an explosion killing anybody; that's just ram-killing yourself on their hull (which is considerably harder ever since the devs nerfed ship-to-ship collisions). If the 24hKOS system does recognize ram-kills, that should be changed, but that's a different thread. For that scenario to make sense in this context, your ramming them would have to kill them, causing their explosion to then kill you. Given the negligible damage ramming now causes, that's a non-issue.

1.8.273 is where 24hKOS was implemented. It supposedly does ignore kills when the killed party is hated or KOS with the faction. So if I personally were killed by a newb's explosion at a UIT station, the newb would be fine since I'm KOS. But that's just me, and only with four factions.

Still don't know if that also applies to the Stand Your Ground system, although one of Inc's comments said that he wanted it to. If it doesn't, I could attack somebody in a minor faction outside of the NFZ, let them whittle me down, and then kill them in close proximity so that their explosion kills me. If that system does cause it to exempt kills of aggressors, then I'd have to actually get them to instigate the fight before I could penalize them via their death explosion. I would be fine with that. But if it ignores aggressor status, something should definitely be changed.

I was using the ramkills as an example.

It shouldn't penalise in any situation since explosions are not in your control (bar /explode which is supremely hard to do considering you'd need 10s within 30m of someone, on a constant bearing to even damage them).

he's just mad because he doesn't want his bot to need a recode or to have to babysit it.

Ship explosions do damage. If you do damage to someone in a situation that has penalties ..then you get penalized. You most certainly do have control over where you /explode the same way you have control over where your homing missiles eventually explode ... you have the choice to not do /explode or shoot your homing missiles where they could be lured into the nfz etc.

This is intended behavior so suck it up. Itan shop is a tool of the itan guild and as such it will be targeted.

+1, but only to NFZ situations

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you don't get a penalty for causing damage by self-destructing (or exploding in general) in the NFZ, right? If that's the case, then you should also not get the 24-hour KoS penalty if that explosion in advertently killed someone else in the NFZ if only for consistency purposes. Outside the NFZ is a different story I think.

The exploitation of the current system or the suggested modification in the OP seems to be a minimal risk, but I don't see that as a reason for not making the change.

While the motivation might very well be Kierky wanting his ITAN Shop bot to function properly, I don't see that as a negative. Player-run bots that can distribute goods is a great idea, whether it's ITAN who does it, or FAMY, or ONE.

Itan shop is a tool of the itan guild and as such it will be targeted.

when will you idiots understand the difference between roleplay and non-roleplay?

the topic was created for a singular purpose about a specific situation. Pretending it's some generalized problem that just happened to coincide with the bot is stupid and misleading.

He wants his bot to be protected and wishes to change the current behavior and rules of the game to do so.

that's all this thread is about.

It's next to impossible to intentionally kill someone with self-destruct, so penalizing someone for doing so doesn't make any sense. It would seem that this is simply something the devs didn't take into consideration when they made their recent changes to the stand your ground rules, and thus would be a bug since it's inconsistent as I outline in my first response, NOT a feature. If, on the other hand, the devs DID intend this as a feature, then they simply need to say as much and this would turn into a suggestion post.

If you are so pissed that ITAN Shop is selling goods and then /exploding to get back into the station, go ahead and complain about it. But bear in mind everyone, ONE included, uses this exact same function to move ships. If one is an exploit, then both are.

nobody is saying you shouldn't be able to explode. Nobody is pissed that they have a bot. Kierky is pissed that his bots explosions are being used against it (which is not an exploit in the least, ship explosions give PK's all the time in the game). Which is Too Bad (tm) because ship explosions cause damage and always have and doing it in the NFZ or in a protected system where you kill someone with standing or just in the NFZ causes the same consequences as if you shot them. There is nothing ambiguous or misleading or buggy about it. Just because you died when it happened doesn't mean you're not responsible for the damage your dying inflicted.

You can't have your cake and eat it too. Either ship explosions cause damage and all the consequences thereof are included if you /explode yourself that the game currently inflicts or you have to make ship explosions not cause any damage to other ships....no matter where they occur and who is exploding ...including npc's.

"Fixing" it so his bot doesn't cause damage when it /explodes would amount to a developer change that benefits a single person/guild directly and really nobody else for the sole purpose of protecting their bot.

I'm not interested in your reasoning behind why you *think* I've suggested this. I've explained already that this is not intended behaviour. Therefore it is a bug.

Exploding and shooting someone are NOT the same thing. Not even close. I'm not mad because I've now added code to prevent it exploding on people. Now I'm interested in getting this silly bug fixed.

Steps to prevent cellulosemode from exploiting this mechanism (and also not allowing him to just camp out next to the bot so it cannot dock):

Have the bot engage turbo once business is over. Monitor distance from the station and disengage turbo at the 3km mark. If energy depletes before then, reengage turbo. Once at 3km, wait for energy to be >= 25%, then jump to an unguarded sector. Then explode.

(The 24hKOS is only calculated within guarded sectors, not monitored sectors.)

But yeah. I have no actual problem with the OP. I was just trying to sort out how big of an issue it actually was.

Oh I know, I'm not silly, I know how to prevent it :)

He's just mad because I'm suggesting a solution which would render his exploit null, and he'd have to go back to trying to kill real Itani, instead of running away lol.

There is currently no situation where exploding and shooting isn't the same thing. You want to create one. Creating a difference in behavior for arbitrary reasons. If you can get a pk with your ship explosion then you should get all the same punishments if this occurs in protected areas. There is no good reason for it not to.