Players have found out that if they bump you, then they can destroy you without faction standing loss.

Today I had a player bump me upon entering a dock, and he repeated bumping me until the station guard attacked. At a minimum, a collision should trigger attacks on both players.

Also, after a collision, players can use weapons to destroy each other with no faction standing loss. Or they shoot you down to 5%, then ram you to kill you... Counts as a collision once again and does not cause faction standing loss.

Imagine what would happen if this wasn't the case.

Don't sit in the dock and maybe you won't get bumped so much?

Its very very hard to ram kill an aware pilot, no matter what ship they are flying. It's not that hard for one newb to ram another and cause themselfs faction loss.

Not a bug, a feature. Learn not to sit still in space.

It would not be that hard for VO to check/track and see if a player fired a weapon in the last few minutes or since launching.

This is REALLY difficult to pull off. I've done it. Even a fully loaded XC can move around enough to make ramming it to death super hard.

-999 until the faction system is fixed. There should be no such thing as perfect safety.

Besides, if this is implemented, next thing you know they'll be asking for faction hits when you trick the station guards into killing things for you, or when they kill themselves on you by using flares up close, or when you scare somebody and they bump into the docking bay just a little too hard.

Here's the thing: ram damage, including ram killing, doesn't trigger a violation of the NFZ. Trust me, I ram kill enough idiots to know.

XOXO HTFH,

Trakus Shar

I think the desired goal of this post could be mostly achieved by making it punishable to do a certain percentage damage to someone's hull using weapons. In the real world, battery is a serious crime; it doesn't take a murder to get imprisoned.

Another way to do it would be to make ramming to death lead to faction loss if and only if you've done a certain amount of damage to your victim with weapons first.

Another related change that would be useful is to not enforce the NFZ when shooting someone who's hate, KOS or temp KOS.

No, NFZ should not have anything to do with faction. It isn't about protecting ships at all, it's about protecting the station - despite the fact that we currently cannot hurt the station. Besides that, as a gameplay mechanic it is nice to have certain rules that apply equally to everybody period (except retarded NPCs anyway).

This isn't 21st century real-world Earth. This is mostly-lawless 45th century humanity-in-exile space.

Lisa, the station guards wouldn't have been dispatched from someone ramming you. There was shots fired for that to happen. Also, your suggestion to have attacks triggered on both parties involved in a collision in the NFZ is ridiculous. I can't count how many times i've been rear-ended by NPCs coming out of the dock.
Also, your suggestion could easily be exploited by pirates. They could fly a fast ship, take an escort mission, abort it, then bump all of the moths and book it. Jump out then back in to clear the Temp-KOS and pick up all the loot after the strike force lays waste to the entire convoy.

We could also do that to players, simply to harass without worrying about them dropping anything. Imagine if you were intending to dock with a station, and out of nowhere some idiot comes out and bumps you then flies away laughing. Now you have to leave the sector and return before you can dock, assuming you can survive long enough (the SF are pretty dangerous when you're in a laden moth).

Checking for doing X damage doesn't work either - just take a hog2 and ram yourself near dead against a moth. Game can't tell that you initiated it and not the moth.

A lot of valid points are made on both sides. Station safety extends beyond the actual station it's self, the NFZ is established to protect the station against damage from fire fights just outside the station. However station safety also involves the movement of traffic in and out of the station, and the fact that some of this traffic is carrying raw materials, supplies and equipment needed to maintain the station it's self, so I would see the station having a vested interest in seeing that those flying in and out of the station are doing so safely. To that end here are my thoughts.

First of all, on collisions. As has been pointed out, most collisions are avoidable, however if a collision were to occur it is a possible threat to station safety, however should not be significant enough to warrant a hostile response. Also some collisions are accidental and so some forgiveness should be in place. That being said repeated collisions should come with some sort of penalty, with any ship involved in 3 collision with other ships or the station it's self taking a 250 point hit with that faction and a 250,000 to 500,000 credit fine. This would be applied only within station space (The NFZ) and would need to leave the sector to reset. Anything done outside the NFZ is not considered a direct threat to station safety so standard standing handling would apply.

Please not the numbers stated are proposed and by no means specifically desired.

So if I ram you two times and my friend rams you once, you want to lose 250 faction and pay a 250k to 500k fine?

Also, counting collisions with the station against you would make docking moths in a hurry more dangerous - not a bad thing, just something to consider.