Forums » Off-Topic
Are we allowed to talk about politics in off topic?
It's not specifically prohibited, though the fallout might be if people don't keep it civil.
https://www.vendetta-online.com/h/conduct.html
https://www.vendetta-online.com/h/conduct.html
Whistler, in your experience can there ever be a civilized political discussion in VO when it's obvious the instigator is more interested in spreading his propaganda than to have a honest, open conversation?
I'm open to a civil, open, honest conversation absent of name calling and preconceived assumptions, though I didn't post this to spur a debate. I posted it so people can witness one taking place. You should watch the video.
If you consider something propaganda, you are on the internet after all, do some of your own research on the claims and return with your findings.
If you consider something propaganda, you are on the internet after all, do some of your own research on the claims and return with your findings.
I didn't watch the video, since I can only handle a small amount of ignorant people getting brutally owned by business owners, and I've had my daily allotment.
But, hey, since we're putting down things so that people know they happened, here's some things people have said (presented without context, in the order I found them in CS's chat collection in the ten minutes I gave myself for this post):
<Blaqk> Sandy Hook was faked
<Blaqk> Obama is half muslim
<Blaqk> Muslims will cut your head off for a beer
<Blaqk> Muslims are responsible for slavery of blacks.
<Blaqk> MAKE AMERICA WHITE AGAIN!
<Blaqk> God hates fags.
Sure, if you're new to the game, you're probably thinking "what an asshole troll, but come on, clearly he's just trolling, no-one thinks like that!"
You're wrong, there are people that think like this. But there's a reason you think that: alt right talking points like these aren't really designed to be consistent or coherent. They're there, and all at the same time, so that you can pick and choose and come together with the author on at least one of these points. Anything that goes a little too far for you? Don't worry, you can choose to ignore them. After all, this is a person that claimed to have died[1]. Not to mention regularly claiming to be Sam Hyde (a youtube "comedian" one of whose "bits" is asking black people to take pictures with him. I don't get it either.)
Now, if you're on board with me here, and still new to the game you might think "Surely Guild Software and its guides don't have any interest in having their game being a recruiting station for the Proud Boys or some other alt-right or alt-lite organization."
Apparently, you're wrong again. It seems that the moderation approach is to sit on the fence, mumble vaguely about "great people on both sides, but what about the left's violent rhetoric?" and delete posts that dare point out any player's terrible opinions. I'm pretty optimistic about this post, but history has shown that it might not stick around. The guides have been tacitly supporting Blaqk. his style of posting and his "controversial" opinions for a few years now, and it feels like nothing will change that.
Again, if you're new an have only seen the posts by Blaqk that haven't been swept under the rug, you might think "Now then genka, surely a community that has room for any good-faith argument is a good thing."
And I would 100% agree with you. The only problem is that VO's moderation has chosen to focus in "any" and "argument" making the "good-faith" part optional. And no, I don't think this community should have room for just "any argument." Especially if the argument comes down to "I want to see pictures of dead kids, where are the pictures?"
[1] Another neat trolling tactic here: if you're going to be accurate about it, Blaqk never really claimed to have died, someone else said that, therefore my dumb libertard face can't even get basic facts right, and so it becomes obvious that nothing I ever say is in any way valid
But, hey, since we're putting down things so that people know they happened, here's some things people have said (presented without context, in the order I found them in CS's chat collection in the ten minutes I gave myself for this post):
<Blaqk> Sandy Hook was faked
<Blaqk> Obama is half muslim
<Blaqk> Muslims will cut your head off for a beer
<Blaqk> Muslims are responsible for slavery of blacks.
<Blaqk> MAKE AMERICA WHITE AGAIN!
<Blaqk> God hates fags.
Sure, if you're new to the game, you're probably thinking "what an asshole troll, but come on, clearly he's just trolling, no-one thinks like that!"
You're wrong, there are people that think like this. But there's a reason you think that: alt right talking points like these aren't really designed to be consistent or coherent. They're there, and all at the same time, so that you can pick and choose and come together with the author on at least one of these points. Anything that goes a little too far for you? Don't worry, you can choose to ignore them. After all, this is a person that claimed to have died[1]. Not to mention regularly claiming to be Sam Hyde (a youtube "comedian" one of whose "bits" is asking black people to take pictures with him. I don't get it either.)
Now, if you're on board with me here, and still new to the game you might think "Surely Guild Software and its guides don't have any interest in having their game being a recruiting station for the Proud Boys or some other alt-right or alt-lite organization."
Apparently, you're wrong again. It seems that the moderation approach is to sit on the fence, mumble vaguely about "great people on both sides, but what about the left's violent rhetoric?" and delete posts that dare point out any player's terrible opinions. I'm pretty optimistic about this post, but history has shown that it might not stick around. The guides have been tacitly supporting Blaqk. his style of posting and his "controversial" opinions for a few years now, and it feels like nothing will change that.
Again, if you're new an have only seen the posts by Blaqk that haven't been swept under the rug, you might think "Now then genka, surely a community that has room for any good-faith argument is a good thing."
And I would 100% agree with you. The only problem is that VO's moderation has chosen to focus in "any" and "argument" making the "good-faith" part optional. And no, I don't think this community should have room for just "any argument." Especially if the argument comes down to "I want to see pictures of dead kids, where are the pictures?"
[1] Another neat trolling tactic here: if you're going to be accurate about it, Blaqk never really claimed to have died, someone else said that, therefore my dumb libertard face can't even get basic facts right, and so it becomes obvious that nothing I ever say is in any way valid
genka, there are no "new" players that are reading this thread, let alone your post above.
While I most certainly don't agree with Blaqk's political viewpoints, I don't see his sharing of views as motivated by a desire to convert / recruit people to his viewpoint. Rather, Blaqk's ego feeds and thrives off of controversy and conflict because of the perceived opportunity to dominate, so he's constantly in a cycle of setting himself up for this and often getting in over his head. At some point it blows up in his face, shit hits the fan and he goes into hiding, only to resurface some time later to repeat the process.
Resurfacing here, after his previous meltdown, is easily done because there is very little consequence to his actions (and so long as Blaqk's antics don't effect GS's bottom line or specifically draw Inc's ire, that's how it will be). Only certain community members (myself being one) are so disgusted with what he has done and how he carries himself that they wish him to leave, but most people would rather it all just be brushed under the rug or move on. And that's just how it is.
Blaqk's own personal accountability is guided by a moral compass that operates exclusively under a Rand-esque philosophy that basically is "whatever makes you happy is what is right". While I think that's a ridiculous way to approach life, there's no point into getting into the particulars.
Much like with JoylessJoker, or any other troll you might encounter here or elsewhere, you will never bring about the change with Blaqk that you want to see. They have to change it in themselves. So if you want to participate in their game, I'd suggest doing so without any expectation that they will change.
While I most certainly don't agree with Blaqk's political viewpoints, I don't see his sharing of views as motivated by a desire to convert / recruit people to his viewpoint. Rather, Blaqk's ego feeds and thrives off of controversy and conflict because of the perceived opportunity to dominate, so he's constantly in a cycle of setting himself up for this and often getting in over his head. At some point it blows up in his face, shit hits the fan and he goes into hiding, only to resurface some time later to repeat the process.
Resurfacing here, after his previous meltdown, is easily done because there is very little consequence to his actions (and so long as Blaqk's antics don't effect GS's bottom line or specifically draw Inc's ire, that's how it will be). Only certain community members (myself being one) are so disgusted with what he has done and how he carries himself that they wish him to leave, but most people would rather it all just be brushed under the rug or move on. And that's just how it is.
Blaqk's own personal accountability is guided by a moral compass that operates exclusively under a Rand-esque philosophy that basically is "whatever makes you happy is what is right". While I think that's a ridiculous way to approach life, there's no point into getting into the particulars.
Much like with JoylessJoker, or any other troll you might encounter here or elsewhere, you will never bring about the change with Blaqk that you want to see. They have to change it in themselves. So if you want to participate in their game, I'd suggest doing so without any expectation that they will change.
...the moderation approach is to sit on the fence, mumble vaguely about "great people on both sides, but what about the left's violent rhetoric?"
I don't recall ever having made a comment to that effect, maybe another guide did.
The guides have been tacitly supporting Blaqk.
Um, no. You probably have no idea what my true political viewpoints are, because I've given little indication other than 'I didn't vote for Trump in this last election'; that could be due to any number of reasons, though.
I will state in no uncertain terms that I find racism, sexism, homophobia and bigotry abhorrent. I try to be vigilant about my own thinking and never take for granted that I'm above sliding into such traps without caution.
As a guide, I'm here to uphold the rules laid out by GS, which specifically forbid "Hate Mongering". I'm not sure what would satisfy you other than outright banning somebody, and that's up to GS.
The thread is about, well, someone discussing capitalism and the 1% in Occupy Wall Street. I don't see how that's against any of GS's rules, nor am I "tacitly supporting" someone else's viewpoints.
I don't recall ever having made a comment to that effect, maybe another guide did.
The guides have been tacitly supporting Blaqk.
Um, no. You probably have no idea what my true political viewpoints are, because I've given little indication other than 'I didn't vote for Trump in this last election'; that could be due to any number of reasons, though.
I will state in no uncertain terms that I find racism, sexism, homophobia and bigotry abhorrent. I try to be vigilant about my own thinking and never take for granted that I'm above sliding into such traps without caution.
As a guide, I'm here to uphold the rules laid out by GS, which specifically forbid "Hate Mongering". I'm not sure what would satisfy you other than outright banning somebody, and that's up to GS.
The thread is about, well, someone discussing capitalism and the 1% in Occupy Wall Street. I don't see how that's against any of GS's rules, nor am I "tacitly supporting" someone else's viewpoints.
As Phaserlight pointed out, as guides, we are to uphold the rules set out by GS. Engaging in discussion about our views on certain politically charged issues while in game is not a good idea. I personally have never witnessed any guide doing such.
However, there are many unacceptable principles that practically everyone that actively engages in modern society rejects. I would argue that racism, sexism, homophobia and bigotry are among these near-universally rejected principles. I think it is ok for anyone to claim that they stand against these things, and try to promote that to others. I don't think spreading a message of nonviolence and deescalation of conflict is all that controversial.
I will admit that I have shared some of my beliefs while in game and on the forums, but this was before I was a guide, and at a time that I had zero intentions of ever becoming one. But again, all of my beliefs lie around the principles of nonviolence and conflict deescalation(I know, VO's probably not the best game for that). Something that I think no one can really argue against in the modern world. Even so, since I've been a guide I have not participated in any political discussions and don't plan to.
But no one in particular is being defended. It is true that some people are more subtle about how they abuse the rules and the good will of the community. These tactics make it a bit harder to moderate directly, but don't think that these kind of things go unnoticed by anyone in our community, including the guys who keep it alive. The ones that choose to behave this way will most likely not find a permanent place in our relatively tightly-knit community, or at least not a very enjoyable one.
However, there are many unacceptable principles that practically everyone that actively engages in modern society rejects. I would argue that racism, sexism, homophobia and bigotry are among these near-universally rejected principles. I think it is ok for anyone to claim that they stand against these things, and try to promote that to others. I don't think spreading a message of nonviolence and deescalation of conflict is all that controversial.
I will admit that I have shared some of my beliefs while in game and on the forums, but this was before I was a guide, and at a time that I had zero intentions of ever becoming one. But again, all of my beliefs lie around the principles of nonviolence and conflict deescalation(I know, VO's probably not the best game for that). Something that I think no one can really argue against in the modern world. Even so, since I've been a guide I have not participated in any political discussions and don't plan to.
But no one in particular is being defended. It is true that some people are more subtle about how they abuse the rules and the good will of the community. These tactics make it a bit harder to moderate directly, but don't think that these kind of things go unnoticed by anyone in our community, including the guys who keep it alive. The ones that choose to behave this way will most likely not find a permanent place in our relatively tightly-knit community, or at least not a very enjoyable one.
A mistake is to respond to subtle provocation, which does not necessarily break the rules, in such a way that one ends up breaking the rules oneself. The result is that one may end up being censored and incorrectly assuming that they were disagreed with, when in fact they simply crossed the line.
For the record: I don't care what people's politics are. Just follow the rules and don't pull the dev's attention away from developing the game.
Significant items from the ROC:
• You may not use any sexually explicit, harmful, threatening, abusive, defamatory, obscene, hateful, racially or ethnically offensive language.
• In addition to the general guidelines listed in section 1.0, players are also subject to these supplementary rules while playing Vendetta Online. While by no means an all-inclusive list of the do's and don'ts in Vendetta Online, it provides a suitable foundation by which the player can determine what activities are appropriate:
• You may not abuse other players or Guides.
• The following actions would be considered abuse:
o Hate Mongering - participation in or propagation of Hate literature, behavior, or propaganda related to real-world characteristics.
o Sexual Abuse or Harassment - untoward and/or unwelcome advances of a graphic and sexual nature. This includes, but is not limited to, virtual rape, overt sexual overtures, and stalking of a sexual nature.
o Implying Favoritism by Guides - Stating that employees of Guild Software or members of the Guide program will show favor towards one or more parties involved in any given situation. This includes, but is not limited to, using threats of retribution or inferring that you will not be held accountable for your actions due to special consideration.
• Note: This list is not all-inclusive. Other actions may be determined as abuse at the discretion of the Guide.
• "Role-playing" does not grant license to violate these rules.
• Though Vendetta Online is a Role-playing game, the claim of "Role-play" will not be accepted in defense of any of the anti-social behaviors mentioned above. We strongly encourage role-playing, but cannot allow it to be done at the expense of others.
O MESSAGE BOARD CONDUCT
• As the Official Vendetta Online Forums are associated with the game, posting to these forums is bound by the Terms of Service that can be found in their entirety here. In addition to these terms of service, we have a few supplemental rules that apply to the Vendetta Online Forums.
• In general, you may post any material, written in a courteous and mature manner, providing that it is on-topic for the forum to which you are posting. This includes material that disagrees with the way that we, the developers, operate the game. We will not interfere with the communication of thoughts and ideas as long as the presentation is appropriate for all those capable of reading the forum.
• You may not, however, post any material that:
• Attacks or insults others on the board. Feel free to debate the idea, but do not turn your disagreement into an attack upon the poster.
• Engages in name-calling, harassment, or threats. See above.
• Contains obscenity, vulgarity, or profanity.
For the record: I don't care what people's politics are. Just follow the rules and don't pull the dev's attention away from developing the game.
Significant items from the ROC:
• You may not use any sexually explicit, harmful, threatening, abusive, defamatory, obscene, hateful, racially or ethnically offensive language.
• In addition to the general guidelines listed in section 1.0, players are also subject to these supplementary rules while playing Vendetta Online. While by no means an all-inclusive list of the do's and don'ts in Vendetta Online, it provides a suitable foundation by which the player can determine what activities are appropriate:
• You may not abuse other players or Guides.
• The following actions would be considered abuse:
o Hate Mongering - participation in or propagation of Hate literature, behavior, or propaganda related to real-world characteristics.
o Sexual Abuse or Harassment - untoward and/or unwelcome advances of a graphic and sexual nature. This includes, but is not limited to, virtual rape, overt sexual overtures, and stalking of a sexual nature.
o Implying Favoritism by Guides - Stating that employees of Guild Software or members of the Guide program will show favor towards one or more parties involved in any given situation. This includes, but is not limited to, using threats of retribution or inferring that you will not be held accountable for your actions due to special consideration.
• Note: This list is not all-inclusive. Other actions may be determined as abuse at the discretion of the Guide.
• "Role-playing" does not grant license to violate these rules.
• Though Vendetta Online is a Role-playing game, the claim of "Role-play" will not be accepted in defense of any of the anti-social behaviors mentioned above. We strongly encourage role-playing, but cannot allow it to be done at the expense of others.
O MESSAGE BOARD CONDUCT
• As the Official Vendetta Online Forums are associated with the game, posting to these forums is bound by the Terms of Service that can be found in their entirety here. In addition to these terms of service, we have a few supplemental rules that apply to the Vendetta Online Forums.
• In general, you may post any material, written in a courteous and mature manner, providing that it is on-topic for the forum to which you are posting. This includes material that disagrees with the way that we, the developers, operate the game. We will not interfere with the communication of thoughts and ideas as long as the presentation is appropriate for all those capable of reading the forum.
• You may not, however, post any material that:
• Attacks or insults others on the board. Feel free to debate the idea, but do not turn your disagreement into an attack upon the poster.
• Engages in name-calling, harassment, or threats. See above.
• Contains obscenity, vulgarity, or profanity.
So in short I'm on a list.
To clarify, I'm not saying you guys support alt right opinions or politics because I think you agree with them.
I'm saying that the moderation style you guys are working with is supporting the alt right trolls in the community. I'm saying that by deleting the "less subtle" posts, and then deleting any reference to the "less subtle" posts made by other people you are:
A) Allowing the poster look less like a lunatic to anyone that hasn't spent the last thirteen years obsessivly reloading the forums. I might not know what Phaserlight's politics are because he doesn't post about them. If I wasn't an obsessive nutjob, I probably wouldn't know what Blaqk's politics are because you guys helpfully cleaned up his posts for him.
B) Basically telling other posters that past "misbehavior" is not to be mentioned, lest you yourself be punished for it. It feels like 90% of the posts I've made that have been deleted by a guide in the last three years were deleted because I quoted someone. And is sucks.
C) Fine tuning the troll message to fit neatly into the mysterious "subtelty" lines for them, so that they can get their message out. The idea that Blaqk is some sort of "subtle mastermind" that's carefully riding the line is a laughable concept. As I'm sure you guys know better than most people on this forums. Since you can see all the posts.
PS:
The ones that choose to behave this way will most likely not find a permanent place in our relatively tightly-knit community, or at least not a very enjoyable one.
lol r u for real rite now?
I'm saying that the moderation style you guys are working with is supporting the alt right trolls in the community. I'm saying that by deleting the "less subtle" posts, and then deleting any reference to the "less subtle" posts made by other people you are:
A) Allowing the poster look less like a lunatic to anyone that hasn't spent the last thirteen years obsessivly reloading the forums. I might not know what Phaserlight's politics are because he doesn't post about them. If I wasn't an obsessive nutjob, I probably wouldn't know what Blaqk's politics are because you guys helpfully cleaned up his posts for him.
B) Basically telling other posters that past "misbehavior" is not to be mentioned, lest you yourself be punished for it. It feels like 90% of the posts I've made that have been deleted by a guide in the last three years were deleted because I quoted someone. And is sucks.
C) Fine tuning the troll message to fit neatly into the mysterious "subtelty" lines for them, so that they can get their message out. The idea that Blaqk is some sort of "subtle mastermind" that's carefully riding the line is a laughable concept. As I'm sure you guys know better than most people on this forums. Since you can see all the posts.
PS:
The ones that choose to behave this way will most likely not find a permanent place in our relatively tightly-knit community, or at least not a very enjoyable one.
lol r u for real rite now?
A) You are upset that in deleting prohibited posts here, in whole or in part, I am protecting the author from public scorn? It's not my job or intent to do anything but keep the peace in the forums so that the devs can keep their noses to the grindstone. It is beyond the scope of VO to punish people for their social views. Users are free to look like lunatics and obsessive nutjobs within the confines of the EULA, ROC and Be Nice rules. We can and will silence posts that violate the rules. If you don't like the rules or how the guides enforce them, please open a ticket with the devs.
B) "Mentioning misbehavior" may also be seen as harassment or otherwise stirring up drama. One is not protected from the rules simply because one is quoting someone else.
C) We have the option of deleting posts in whole or in part. You can read the Be Nice or ROC to see the guidelines we're given on that. Someone will always be mad, so we try for the least oppressive manner that seems appropriate given current conditions. For instance, your post of 06:31 contains several actionable items yet I have left it temporarily untouched as we discuss the issue.
Your behavior is a significant cause of the problem you are having here. Please, stop.
B) "Mentioning misbehavior" may also be seen as harassment or otherwise stirring up drama. One is not protected from the rules simply because one is quoting someone else.
C) We have the option of deleting posts in whole or in part. You can read the Be Nice or ROC to see the guidelines we're given on that. Someone will always be mad, so we try for the least oppressive manner that seems appropriate given current conditions. For instance, your post of 06:31 contains several actionable items yet I have left it temporarily untouched as we discuss the issue.
Your behavior is a significant cause of the problem you are having here. Please, stop.
<Genka> When I grow up, I want to be just like Blaqk!
Falsifying chatlogs or using them out of context out of your own admission to make a poor attempt at character assassination is easy.
In all honestly if the guides have been supporting me I don't see it, I've been the #1 target for in game harassment, personal attack, racism, homophobia, real life threats, death-wishes, doxing, and more with little to no action taken, which I don't mind I am a avid supporter of free speech as long as it doesn't call to violence or infringe on my rights or the rights of others.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_lie
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_slave_trade
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyrone_Hayes
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostasy_in_Islam
“Every intoxicant is khamr, and every khamr is haraam (forbidden).”
“They ask you (O Muhammad) concerning alcoholic drink and gambling. Say: ‘In them is a great sin, and (some) benefits for men, but the sin of them is greater than their benefit’”
[al-Baqarah 2:219]
Incarnate : I'm not generally opposed to supporting cryptocurrency
This is all a great distraction from the purpose of this thread, which Phaserlight put into a simple to understand format for those who never intended to have a open discussion sans "going low".
Falsifying chatlogs or using them out of context out of your own admission to make a poor attempt at character assassination is easy.
In all honestly if the guides have been supporting me I don't see it, I've been the #1 target for in game harassment, personal attack, racism, homophobia, real life threats, death-wishes, doxing, and more with little to no action taken, which I don't mind I am a avid supporter of free speech as long as it doesn't call to violence or infringe on my rights or the rights of others.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_lie
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_slave_trade
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyrone_Hayes
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostasy_in_Islam
“Every intoxicant is khamr, and every khamr is haraam (forbidden).”
“They ask you (O Muhammad) concerning alcoholic drink and gambling. Say: ‘In them is a great sin, and (some) benefits for men, but the sin of them is greater than their benefit’”
[al-Baqarah 2:219]
Incarnate : I'm not generally opposed to supporting cryptocurrency
This is all a great distraction from the purpose of this thread, which Phaserlight put into a simple to understand format for those who never intended to have a open discussion sans "going low".
Why should I care if Obama was a Muslim?
Whistler: You are upset that in deleting prohibited posts here, in whole or in part, I am protecting the author from public scorn?
Yes
Whistler: Your behavior is a significant cause of the problem you are having here. Please, stop.
Maybe you should file a support ticket.
Yes
Whistler: Your behavior is a significant cause of the problem you are having here. Please, stop.
Maybe you should file a support ticket.
The political ideology known as Islam and it's subset control mechanisms such as Sharia law are not compatible with western society or the enlightenment of such things as freedom.
Obama IS a muslim, not was. He's the one who told us ISIS was not Islamic.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwp8qKvE-0g : CNN
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taqiya
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAwMpL7POyo : United Nations File
"Obama : The future should not belong to those who slander the prophet muhammad"
Do you believe women should drive? Do you believe that if you go against the Quran you should be killed? Do you think the consumption of intoxicants warrants your children stoned to death? Can you name a majority muslim country you rather live than the United States?
Why is it everywhere Islam is practiced you will find women, homosexuals, and any "non-believer" are oppressed, murdered, and worse?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naskh_(tafsir)
I've read the Quran, studied the five pillars of Islam, and anyone who describes themselves as a muslim should be sent to the middle east, and before someone says that those are not muslims, and that isn't Islam, please direct me to where Islam is practiced correctly.
So, no one has anything to say about capitalism?
Obama IS a muslim, not was. He's the one who told us ISIS was not Islamic.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwp8qKvE-0g : CNN
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taqiya
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAwMpL7POyo : United Nations File
"Obama : The future should not belong to those who slander the prophet muhammad"
Do you believe women should drive? Do you believe that if you go against the Quran you should be killed? Do you think the consumption of intoxicants warrants your children stoned to death? Can you name a majority muslim country you rather live than the United States?
Why is it everywhere Islam is practiced you will find women, homosexuals, and any "non-believer" are oppressed, murdered, and worse?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naskh_(tafsir)
I've read the Quran, studied the five pillars of Islam, and anyone who describes themselves as a muslim should be sent to the middle east, and before someone says that those are not muslims, and that isn't Islam, please direct me to where Islam is practiced correctly.
So, no one has anything to say about capitalism?
OK, you are voicing an opinion and parsing with a VERY narrow focus. The fact of the matter is quite a bit broader:
President Obama’s address to the UN General Assembly in September 2012:
"It is time to leave the call of violence and the politics of division behind. On so many issues, we face a choice between the promise of the future, or the prisons of the past. And we cannot afford to get it wrong. We must seize this moment. And America stands ready to work with all who are willing to embrace a better future.
The future must not belong to those who target Coptic Christians in Egypt — it must be claimed by those in Tahrir Square who chanted, “Muslims, Christians, we are one.” The future must not belong to those who bully women — it must be shaped by girls who go to school, and those who stand for a world where our daughters can live their dreams just like our sons.
The future must not belong to those corrupt few who steal a country’s resources — it must be won by the students and entrepreneurs, the workers and business owners who seek a broader prosperity for all people. Those are the women and men that America stands with; theirs is the vision we will support.
The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam. But to be credible, those who condemn that slander must also condemn the hate we see in the images of Jesus Christ that are desecrated, or churches that are destroyed, or the Holocaust that is denied.
Let us condemn incitement against Sufi Muslims and Shiite pilgrims. It’s time to heed the words of Gandhi: “Intolerance is itself a form of violence and an obstacle to the growth of a true democratic spirit.” Together, we must work towards a world where we are strengthened by our differences, and not defined by them. That is what America embodies, that’s the vision we will support."
President Obama’s address to the UN General Assembly in September 2012:
"It is time to leave the call of violence and the politics of division behind. On so many issues, we face a choice between the promise of the future, or the prisons of the past. And we cannot afford to get it wrong. We must seize this moment. And America stands ready to work with all who are willing to embrace a better future.
The future must not belong to those who target Coptic Christians in Egypt — it must be claimed by those in Tahrir Square who chanted, “Muslims, Christians, we are one.” The future must not belong to those who bully women — it must be shaped by girls who go to school, and those who stand for a world where our daughters can live their dreams just like our sons.
The future must not belong to those corrupt few who steal a country’s resources — it must be won by the students and entrepreneurs, the workers and business owners who seek a broader prosperity for all people. Those are the women and men that America stands with; theirs is the vision we will support.
The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam. But to be credible, those who condemn that slander must also condemn the hate we see in the images of Jesus Christ that are desecrated, or churches that are destroyed, or the Holocaust that is denied.
Let us condemn incitement against Sufi Muslims and Shiite pilgrims. It’s time to heed the words of Gandhi: “Intolerance is itself a form of violence and an obstacle to the growth of a true democratic spirit.” Together, we must work towards a world where we are strengthened by our differences, and not defined by them. That is what America embodies, that’s the vision we will support."
I posted the entire speech in video form, yet to hear anything about capitalism and government intervention/central planned economies.
We both know people don't generally follow links or watch videos. It isn't necessary to debunk each point in order to destroy credibility. One major point will do.