In regards to spamming, I tend to see about the same amount from both sides, and I discourage it no matter who is doing it. Although the best way to discourage spamming involves turboing around while all of the spammed missiles run out, then destroying the spammer who is now left with an empty tube of missiles.

In regards to the SVG and IBG, after flying both quite a bit I do agree that the price of the SVG should be lowered a bit, I don't think the levels should be though. I do think that the levels of the IBG should be raised a bit. I've always thought the levels for the IBG were way too low. While the SVG may be a bigger target for flares than the IBG, flares are much more devastating when they connect with an IBG. I also think that the speed of the corvus vult and the SVG should be switched, or at least bump the SVG to 70m/s.

In regards to the price and lvl difference between proms and valks, I think it's alright. The prom should be a bit more expensive and higher lvl than the valk, considering its combat ability.

Honestly, I really just can't wait for the day when the devs hire a larger team, because a lot of the balance issues can be solved not by fixing the ships directly, but by the addition of other ships. For example, maybe the Serco have devastating cruisers which excel at destroying cap ships. But on the other end, maybe the Itani have very fast and powerful anti-fighter frigates that can tear a fighter defense to shreds. Some things have to be different for content. But the balance can be maintained through more indirect means such as these. A nation that has the best heavy cruisers in the game could also have the worst light fighters etc.

IMHO, this is how we need to start looking at balance for this game to mature into an MMORPG. We can't keep coming back to which ship is the overall best.

I got my high duel rating by only challenging people who had a high enough rating for it to be worth the risk, and by not fighting Valk or centjocks that could simply drag on a fight for half an hour or more and wait for me to run out of ammo or get so fucking tired and bored that I'm willing to just let myself lose for it to be over with, Bojan. If swarms were responsible for my winning, I'd use them more often than I do; as it is, I've flown with swarms maybe once in the last two months, and that was because I didn't have better weapons available at the station I was playing from. Spamming is almost completely ineffectual unless combined with other cowardly tactics such as ganking and running, and we Serco don't have the luxury of gank buddies to hide behind.

Ghost: I'd do just that, and I have in the past - evading the swarms and then closing in for the kill, but lately I've always had other people shooting at me as I try to turbo around, and I;d frankly rather take my chances trying to take one of them down quicly before the swarms hit than just run around and hope I can catch the spammer before he runs away without getting shot in the back and killed first. I have too much pride to simply run away and prevent the spammer from getting the PK, so what other option do I have?

I think you're right, Ghost, in that the IBG perhaps needs a level increase rather than the SVG a decrease. Still I think the price should be higher for IBGs, considering how elite they are, they shouldn't be as incredibly cheap as it is. Even if it's a small machine, it's still a precision instrument, moreso than the Serco SVG (which is a millenia-old design). As for the prom/valk, I think either the baseline model of the prom needs a decrease in level requirement and cost (Prom III and SCP are fine as they are) or the baseline and Rune Valkyries need a level and cost increase. IMHO it stands to reason that as powerful as the SCP is, it should take fewer licenses to wield in a military state than the precision weapons of war that the peaceful Itani build. Consider supply and economy. I also think the prom could still use a thrust nerf, but that's another topic.... as for pricing, buying a baseline prom should be cheaper than it is, and buying an SVG MUCH cheaper. I'm not sure what valks cost, but I'm reasonably sure they cost less than they should, considering that I see virtually every Itani flying them almost all the time; Serco can't afford to fly Proms nearly as much as Itani fly valks. This also builds a case for the idea that valks should be less uber if that's all the Itani fly, but again that's another topic....

Oh, and Leebs, Drunk or Sober, I'll kill you any day of the week (;

Alright, I used to think that it was the general attitude amongst Serco pilots that led me to stay over on the Itani side. Lately, and especially after reading some of his posts, I'm beginning to think that it's just Cunjo. Here are some quotes I found to be extra painful, and my cutting criticism on them. =)

The fact of the matter is that if the Itani had any balls at all, they'd be playing as Serco rather than flying around in their valkjock ganksquads.

Taunts like those are a reason I prefer Itani over Serco. There's not really any way an individual can respond to a statement like that other than whining, or jumping on VO and ganking the shit out of some prom jock. Personally, I prefer the latter. It sure as hell doesn't make anyone want to jump on over to the Serco side.

4) Prefix all Itani character names with the [coward] tag.

I don't want to ever hear you blame Itani for talking shit.

SVG pilots are at a disadvantage due to their larger 'flare-magnet' profile.

You name one detail about a ship. You point out only the negatives about the detail. You then proceed to whine about it, as if that will buy any sympathy for the Serco side, by stating that the SVG is at a "disadvantage". At a disadvantage to what? Centaurions? You like flying IBG's better? Then switch to blue already, or learn to dodge flares, jesus.

"Gee hypocrite, ya think that maybe the reason Serco are using proms are because it's hard to take 5-6 valks alone without one... Learn to fight alone and stop whining."

Okay... so let me just get this straight. You're whining about some blue being a hyppocrite, because you're often out numbered, and he should learn to fight alone, and stop whining. Gee.

And Ghost, I'm not accusing you of being a coward. Many itani are, but it's obviously not true of everyone. Nevertheless, all of the cowardly players tend to gravitate to the Itani nation, where they're backed by gank buddies wherever they go, and that really doesn't do much for the image of the rest of you.

Shut up already. Bravery is something you do when someone's in trouble, or there's danger about, or when there's something at risk besides one's ego. If pwning some n00bs in VO is your idea of being a badass, then you really need to get out more often. What you are is an idealist, and nobody's really paying attention to your ideals about what's cowardly or not. It's a game dude! Chill.

And then the cowardly swarm-spamming ganker scumbags have the gall to trash-talk me and the other Serco, calling us weak or poor losers because they get a couple PKs from us, and refuse to face us alone when we ask for a fair fight.

Yeah, well, you asked for it. You punctuate you sentences with smirky comments about people who play Itani, so expect to get some guff. Also, they're calling you poor losers because you bitch about it. That's what poor losers are.

Spamming is almost completely ineffectual unless combined with other cowardly tactics such as ganking and running, and we Serco don't have the luxury of gank buddies to hide behind.

That's what the rumors are, so I decided to take some out for a spin myself. I jumped into the middle of a battle that was actually pretty fair between Itani and Serco, a dozen people trading shots. Anywho, I charged in there, got close, fired a calculated spray of different missles as each one of my targets pivoted in their back rolling routines, and really tore shit up. I think the truth of the matter is that Prom jocks just can't dodge. Now just why a "A heavily armored ship designed for bombing" would be vunerable against a missle that packs alot of punch in a decisive amount of time, and *just* enough maneuverability to make dodging in larger ships a chore, is completely beyond me.

Look... swarms aren't cheap because you can "fire and forget". That is the largest amount of BS I've had the fortune to hear on VO. If you can't dodge swarms, then go fight collector bots some more, because dodging actual shots is alot harder. Do you honestly think that the seeking capability of those missles are what makes them so desireable? It's not. Swarms are deadly because they have the single highest DPS of any weapon. Not only that, but one tube full has the most overall damage packed in there. Have you never hunted Leviathen Cunjo? What do you use to take down it's shields again? And guess what! You fire them without the homing.

So, why oh why would an Itani feel inclined to use Swarms against the most heavily armoured ship Serco pilots have to offer? And in such a situation as BP, do you really think that the pilots who are doing everything they can to take your side down are firing, and then forgetting, not caring where their shots land? I gauruntee you that every Itani is striving to make every shot hit. We like the sound it makes when our target goes boom. We anticipate with every burst of fire that delicious sound of victory, and it's sweeter than the bragging rights to say "Well, I don't use Swarms cuz people tell me it's bad!".

So just... Gah!

lol what a noob.

EDIT: If you can't survive my dripping sarcasm without going on a religious defensive I'd suggest it's you who needs to stop whining.

So you're trying to teach me about swarms now? what are you, some kind of fucking pseudo intellectual? I've been playing this game much longer than you have, and I know a great deal more about the game mechanics. You want to play swarms with me? load 'em up - two tubes of swarms and three of gems. I'll whip you with only one tube. As anyone who knows me can tell you, I don't give a damn about using swarms. It's the backstabbing, ganking and running that gives you a bad name.

I've solo'd the leviathan long before you even joined VO, and I also know what you've been missing now, that swarms aren't the most effective way to deal with it. The only thing that makes swarms good for shield popping is that you can stack them for MRSI. You can do the same thing with rockets if you know what you're doing. Swarms lack precision; however many people it takes you to crack the shield with swarms, you can do it with as many or less using energy, for less cred, and with fewer re-tries.

Vendetta is an MMORPG. Do you know what RPG stands for? Rocket Propelled Grenade, you idiot!
If I'm going to play as a Serco, you damn well better believe I'm going to act like one and give a damn about honor. Of course I don't expect you whimpering Itani to care, but at least most Itani have the intelligence to take my insults with a grain of salt.

Yet here you are, arguing with me and defending your right to cowardice, as if anyone cares. So you're basically saying "I spam and employ cowardly, cheap tactics because I want to and it makes it easier for me to get cheap PKs, since I don't care about honor!" Thank you for proving my point. Keep flying with your gank squads - we don't want whining cowards like you soiling the Serco name anyway.

PS. SMM: You are a coward.
PPS. Get a fucking spellchecker.

I think a good solution for the cost issue would be the one tossed around on the suggestions thread for a while. The basic idea being that you have to accomplish certain tasks to be granted a nations military fighters (proms/valks and SVG/IBG). It makes sense that not everyone would be able to use one just for being a part of the nation. As a result of this, the cost could be significantly decreased.

I don't think the SCP needs any more nerfs. It's still the most powerful ship in the game, as it should be. It balances out in the scheme of things too. The IBG is slightly better than the SVG, the Valk will tear up an SVG if he has at least 1 flare (without flares, SVG and Valk are about equal IMO) and the Prom trumps all.

Cunjo, that's great man, but did you once think that kind of attitude is what scares people from playing Serco? Maybe if you fought more battles with gauss instead of words, the reds wouldn't be as unpopular. There's no harm in trying, eh? And I think you've misunderstood quite a bit of what I wrote. Here:

"If you can't survive my dripping sarcasm without going on a religious defensive I'd suggest it's you who needs to stop whining."

I know you'd suggest that. You suggest that alot. You can try suggesting something else now, because this isn't whining. I'm actually trying to point out something about you which casts a negative light on many Serco. It'd be in your best interest to consider yourself. Maybe you're not right.

"So you're trying to teach me about swarms now?"

No. I'm telling you my experiences with swarms. However, I think you earlier stated that spams are cheap because one can "fire and forget". That doesn't make a lick of sense. If that's what you believe, then you would benefit from relearning the game, although I don't have patience to mentor you.

"You want to play swarms with me?"

No. There's no way I can win with my 7-8 year old Macintosh and a keyboard. Winning wouldn't prove anything. Neither would losing.

"The only thing that makes swarms good for shield popping is that you can stack them for MRSI."

Well, no. What makes them good is that with three people in rags, one can take down the shields of a leviathen, because of their DPS. I explained this already, but look. In six seconds, you can pop out 34,000 damage, with one tube. That's alot.

"You can do the same thing with rockets if you know what you're doing."

No, you can't.

"Yet here you are, arguing with me and defending your right to cowardice, as if anyone cares."

No... I'm questioning the validity of cowardice or bravery in the setting of a VIDEO GAME, you nerd. Get it right.

"So you're basically saying "I spam and employ cowardly, cheap tactics because I want to and it makes it easier for me to get cheap PKs, since I don't care about honor!""

No. There's nothing basic about what I said at all. I wrote a frikkin' megalith of text up there, analysing many of your points. If you're confused by what I was "basically saying", then go back to the quote in question, and read it from start to finish. Just for your easy understanding, I wrote very simplistically, and (perhaps overly) logically.

"we don't want whining cowards like you soiling the Serco name anyway."

That... is a fantastic idea. =)

P.S. Forgive my awful spelling; I've a splitting headache tonight.
P.P.S. I hate people that do these.

OK, can we now get back on topic?

"No. I'm telling you my experiences with swarms. However, I think you earlier stated that spams are cheap because one can "fire and forget"."

No, I never said that. I think you need your eyesight checked. either that or to re-learn the English language. I said that ganking, spamming swarms at the ganked and then running away is cowardice, and by both practical and technical definitions it is.

"No. There's no way I can win with my 7-8 year old Macintosh and a keyboard. Winning wouldn't prove anything. Neither would losing."

Lol, nice try noob, but it's not an excuse. I'm running VO on a PoS gateway laptop, and it doesn't matter what interface I'm using, I'll still kick your ass. I could kick your ass with only one hand on the keyboard and buggy-as-hell touchpad. There's no point in making excuses - perhaps you just need to admit that you're too coward to face me alone?

"Well, no. What makes them good is that with three people in rags, one can take down the shields of a leviathen, because of their DPS. I explained this already, but look. In six seconds, you can pop out 34,000 damage, with one tube. That's alot."

And one megapositron can deal 29,000 in six seconds, and sustain fire for a lot longer. Your point? You noob, do you even know what MRSI is? It would help if you're going to try and disupte it, no? It means that if you're not a noob, your swarms can do 34,000 damage in only one second. But that doesn't matter, because when people (especially noobs like you) throw swarms at the levi's shields, they're not good enough at coordinating their shots to make it worth it.

"No, you can't."

ORLY? With one jackhammer you can do 24,000 damage in only 1/4 of a second. That's 96,000 DPS. So take your swarms and shove 'em up your ---.

"OK, can we now get back on topic?"

Sure.
SuperMegaNoob: STFU.

As an example of the forgiving and benevolent attitudes of the Serco, I give you... Cunjo!

Hahaha. Seriously, boys go put on some gloves and take it in the ring, keep it outta the thread. Bojan may actually make a point here, soon.

There are 6 active/semiactive Serco exclusive military guilds in VO with 147 PCs in them and 2 Itani exclusive military guilds with a total of 92 PCs.
I know, I know, lots of alts and inactive players on both sides.
People need to get their act together.

Number of Serco players online is not all time low atm but it could be better.
Excellent suggestions that could, if implemented, solve this problem are here:
http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/15995

So, if you want to be constructive and help, dont pull a *Cunjo/SuperMegaMynt act* and post your ideas there.

Malevolent, Leber. I just like hazing the tani noobs (;

It's my hope that this whole thing will be solved by player owned cap ships. It was my belief that the Itani would have slightly better light fighters, but the Serco will have stronger captial ships.

quote :

Cunjo, that's great man, but did you once think that kind of attitude is what scares people from playing Serco?
---------------------------------------------------------

i played it for a month,and its plainly obvious why reds are so unpopular,its because a certain personality type chooses red,and that personality type is not liked by people.

something in the red choice at setup attracts the undesirables,and as much as you may not like it,the masses dont like that personality type,ignorant,bad mouthed,rude and paedantic kids with inferiority complexes.

they spend most of thier time bad mouthing each other in the IRC and little or no time interacting as a community.
the same people often use this message board for the same reasons.

this is what nasty lil kids do,as to do so in RL often invites a slap,so they go online and do it anonymously,its not the games factions at fault,its the stereotypical mealy mouthed lil runts.

Until we have more players I want all experienced itani to play as serco at least one day a week. Besides fighting a different set of people, you also find out how your buddies treat people when no other itani is looking. Cunjo aside, the nations as a group pretty much act the same. I've been ganked by my own buddies from both sides but them not knowing it :)

Cunjo, the prom is not used by the serco because the itani gank the serco. It's used because it's available and an effective ship. Some months ago I spent a few nights in a row mostly alone in deneb fighting up to five proms at a time. It was not because they needed proms against my mighty IBG. It was because they liked using the prom and that's fine. I say if something is available, use it. That includes swarms. But remember that swarms don't seem to help you make friends.

This is not the RP forum, this is the suggestions forum. You can't use RP as an excuse to be incredibly rude here. I'm beginning to worry that Cunjo and the real person behind the character Cunjo are alarmingly similar.

--Harpo

Aj,

Thats pretty funny. I found coming into Secro to be very friendly and inviting. The only crappy thing I found was that there were so many Itan(i) out there that will do "anything" to get a pk, such as camp Deben C-10 without taking BP... you know, so you can wait for bots to do all the work for you.

Of course, if you complain about that, your told "its part of the game". However, turn around and shove some missle spam down their throat and be prepared to be "ridiculed" non stop how it is "lame".

The truly unfriendly feeling isnt because of certain "personality" types on the Secro side, but how much more difficult it is to be Secro because of the players on the Itani side. Its much easier to be Itani, so go figure, most people pick "easy mode"...

Antirelic:
1) Bots don't do "work" on players in Deneb unless the players are alarmingly BAD pilots, or unless the players aren't paying attention.
2) Stop worrying about how many times people get a PK off of you in Deneb, remember, yer kind of new here and it takes time to get good at this.
3) Guided missiles ARE lame in my opinion. They're a crutch for lazy players who can't aim. Grab some energy weapons and mix it up - that is FAR more fun than some cheap "fire and forget" missiles.
4) How is being Itani "easy mode"? I mean, I've leveled up characters in both and being Serco was no more difficult for me than being Itani. The only way that being itani is "easy" mode right now is the fact that a majority of active itani are in the [ITAN] guild right now, and we're helping out the new players actively.

Mebbe I'll do what Harpo says and play meself a Serco character. Then I can post on these boards about how incredibly difficult my life is as a Serco, and how the universe is against me, and how all those nasssty Itani hateses me, and how I didn't get enough attention as a young child, and how I cry myself to sleep every night after another futile attempt to fit in in the VO universe, and...
Oh, wait. too much info.

Anyway, yes, perhaps I'll make another Serco alt. Hrm... What to name it... What to name it...

I have to agree that at this moment in Vendetta, it is more difficult to play a Serco. Most of the time you are outnumbered, and there are less Serco veterans left than Itani. This lack of veterans means there is less leadership in combat which results in very bad Serco performance in group battles. With a little organization though, the Serco can be a powerful force.

It's not that being Itani is easy, it's that whichever side has more people in the battle will always have better luck. Currently that's usually, but not always, the Itani.

In regards to missiles. They're very effective when used as a secondary weapon. I wouldn't say they're lame =P Unless the spam and run tactic is being employed.

Anyhow, if I'm at all successful in introducing some group tactics to new Serco pilots, hopefully you'll see this balance problem start to fade. They have the pilots to do it, they just need some practice. Just the other day I saw a complete performance turnaround from a rag-tag (meant as a compliment fellas=))group of Serco pilots trying to do BP. In the beginning, they were all spread out and going for kills by themselves. By the end of the BP session, after a little instruction they were staying together, covering eachother, hitting called targets and combining their firepower as well as not worrying about who gets the kill as long as the target is destroyed and their wingmen are alive.

Sorry to hijack this thread, but after reading some posts...

SuperMegaMynt ++

I need to meet you ingame.

zamzx zik......no you dont,if he kills you he`s a heroic gamer and master of the skies,if you kill him your a spammer and a coward who doesnt know how to fight properly.

avoid contact,as whining can severley damage the cheese ratio ;))

Please keep your sweeping generalizations confined to Role Playing, and avoid personal attacks.