"I did (and still kinda do) actually think you were talking about the CTC cargo, and I believe that is why the IA joined forces with the VPR's to begin with, considering that they are a CTC focused guild"

well you would be completely wrong then. As stated in the Preamble to our constitution:
" We, the Itani Nation, whole-heartedly pledge to protect
the player, shelter the noob, defeat the Serco, dominate the CtC,
promote free trade without pirates,"

so yes we do want our nation to succeed in ctc, but notice that last part about promote free trade WITHOUT PIRATES. The IA has always been against pirates since our founding, no dubious facts you guys can spit out can contradict this.

-Azdgari (IA member, and comittee member)

So lets say there was a Serco in B 8, that was part of the CtC effort. And he was fighting some IA Itani. Now lets say there was a few VPRs hanging around. What would they do? I'm betting they would kill this non-pirate Serco who was just playing CtC.

"You're saying we are responsible for the actions of people who have left our guild Borb? I don't remember him being in it either actually, must not have been for long."

You talking to a guy who used to fight with him all the time yes he was VPR up to about a week ago. And if you look on almost all the recent weeks of CtC he was solely helping the Itani in CtC. And y'all can say "well he's only one of us many VPRs." Well he's was one of the few only active VPRs at the time. I wonder what the others would have been doing if they had been online...

As a founding member of the Itani Alliance and chair of the foreign relations committee, let me issue this official statement:

The Itani Alliance believes that pirating innocent traders is an illegal activity. Our rules prohibit our members from pirating any Itani or UIT vessel. We believe commerce should be free and unencumbered between our two peoples. And in following of those beliefs, we wholeheartedly support the efforts of the organization known as the Vipers in their endeavors of protecting aforementioned innocent traders from all hostile parties.

That being said, we further declare that the organization known as the Black Lance to be an illegal entity and its members to be known criminals. Any member of this organized crime cartel will be dealt with as a criminal, regardless of nationality, race, ethnic group, age, gender, or sexual orientation. It is our hope that any current members of this organization renounce the Black Lance, stop their illegal activities and rejoin society by fighting against piracy on the side of the Vipers or the Itani Alliance. It is only through our perseverance can we make our shipping lanes a safe and profitable community again.

The Itani Alliance will remain firm in its conviction that the galaxy should be peaceful and free of injustice and oppression.

What about our freedom to um, trade in our own ways. :D

And how come I never get a trial before y'all shoot at me? That's not vary just... :/

Sorry it took so long for me to respond...

Regarding the alliance: I noticed some of our less experienced members were not holding their own versus the elite players of BL. At that point, I alerted the Foriegn Relations committee, and they quickly established a treaty with VPR. We get the help of VPR's more experienced players, and they gain the benefit of our numbers. However, this is regarding BL ONLY. Any participation of VPR members in non-BL activities is the responcibility of the members.

Nuthou5e, your post is very helpful, but obviously a recent change to the constitution is not as well known as I would like to think. I quote this:

"Section 4 Character Crimes vs. Player Crimes

Some crimes are Character crimes, while others are Player Crimes. Character crimes are those that are only punishable when your IA character has committed the crime. Any number of alternate characters can commit the crime so long as the total time you spend on illegal characters is less than the time you spend on legal characters. Player Crimes, such as High Treason, are those that are punishable when the actual player commits the crime. Unlike pirating or griefing, these crimes would have an effect even when the player is not using the character they committed the crime on."

I will withold the name of the player who made the distinction, but pirating is a character crime, and therefore it is possible, while frowned apon, for players in the IA to be pirates. Basically, an IA may be a pirate on an alternate character and not be held responcible for their actions. However, that is only regarding the IA, and this may jeapordize our allegiance with VPR, although a lot of consideration went into this rule, and I hope they can recognize this and if the case arrises (cough-borb) they will look past a single players choices, although it is fully understandable if they choose to not be as friendly with the player afterwards :)

Borb, you bring up a point that makes me admit I don't know as much about VPR as I probably should...if a BL member is clearly trading, are they fair game? And trials are for IA members only Borb, and you chose to leave a while ago.

You know nuthou5e, your post has touched me. I will disband BL immediately, and never attack another player again. I will take up a position at one of the abbeys at eo and attempt to rehabilitate.

I hope pirates never again grace these skies

Borb said, "And how come I never get a trial before y'all shoot at me? That's not vary just... :/"

Well Borb, if you would just get out of your ship with your hands up when instructed to, we would properly bring you into custody and arrange for a speedy trial. However, since you never comply... We have to shoot to protect. :D

You eat plants, I eat you.

Oh, so thats what that message it for... I always thought you wanted to trick me in to letting you drive off with my ship. :D

>...I will disband BL
>immediately, and never attack another player again. I will take up
>a position at one of the abbeys at eo and attempt to rehabilitate.

>I hope pirates never again grace these skies

Yay! We win, we win! In your face pirates!
/me does new 'in your face pirates', dance

Um, ok, what now?

"-Our rules prohibit our members from pirating any Itani or UIT vessel-"

Very interesting phrasology there nuthouse. does that mean that the IA condones the pirating of SERCO vessels which are engaged in peaceful trade activities by its members?

ok, now i'm provoking the thread maso. :)

I would still like to see this question answered:

"So lets say there was a Serco in B 8, that was part of the CtC effort. And he was fighting some IA Itani. Now lets say there was a few VPRs hanging around. What would they do? I'm betting they would kill this non-pirate Serco who was just playing CtC."

Are you really gonna not hurt the Serco or will you end up sideing with the Itani?

No Borb, we wouldn't. We help Serco all the time, ask around, ask Lin eh? Unless the Serco was a known pirate we wouldn't get in the fight. Don't let this one alliance blind you. Some Vipers don't even like Itani very much... Our guilds call ascends beyond our mortal failings.

The situation you describe has occured numerous times and we have already proven ourselves to be fair and neutral. This is not a hypothetical debate. Vipers have no stake in CtC, don't care about, not interested. We want pirates, Itani, Serco, UIT, don't care which.

Spellcast, Vipers make no distinction between privateers and pirates. We would have the same issue with an IA privateer as we would a BL pirate.

I know the viper stand hoax. i was asking for clarification from the IA in this particular instance.

VPR is a group that I trust.

Ok Hoax. I will let the pro-Itani VPR thing rest for now. But I will be watching. (When I'm not getting shot at :p )

Smittens- Character crimes were all I was speaking of.

Shapenaji-It is good to hear you are choosing to return to your peaceful ways. We can only hope that your cohorts follow your enlightened example.

Tramshed- Perhaps you need more fiber in your diet.

Spellcast- Last time I checked, the Serco were pursuing a war against the Itani disregarding any of our atempts to negotiate a peace. The Itani Aliance will deal with non-hostile Serco on a case by case basis.

Any other questions?

nuthouse... thats a very interesting evasion you just used. I particularly like the attempt to switch the blame for any attacks you might make onto the serco nation.
I also find it odd that you claim we have disregarded all attempts to make peace, when it was not that many years ago that itani assasins interfered with "the duel", an event that had been brought about by one of OUR leaders.

However from your evasions and sidestepping I have concluded what your answer really is. You have no compunctions about attacking serco vessels that are engaged in peaceful commerce, and if you are caught doing so you will simply retreat behind a claim of "war".

The Itani have been at war with the Serco ever since your ancestors ambushed our actions towards a peace agreement, which was conditional to the outcome of an entirely honourable duel!

While we would never consider attacking UIT trade lanes, we initially regard Serco contacts as suspicious (regardless of activity) as a direct ramification of thousands of years of hostility. However a sanction or a truce could be negotiated, and non-hostile Serco will therefore be dealt with on 'a case by case basis'.

----------

Can I just clarify the point that is causing so much confusion -- While IA and VPR are allied, this does not mean we share the same values or foreign relations outlook.
At its simplest this alliance means only: IA and VPR will not attack each other. How this actually manifests in a combat situation is up to the individual players, their respective guild's guidelines, and the reputations of players and pirates involved.

**hugs shape** "Welcome to our commune!"

/me continues to sleep with one eye open... :P

[IA] Infinite_Skillz

My name is Shape, and I'm an addict...

Great! This alliance now serves as an excuse for an itani with good standing to defend the serco convoy. Invulnerable defender! Brilliant...