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See biretak, you're playing dumb. You can't possibly forget how you caused a big controversy for TGFT. You eventually resigned from the council. Remember???
Here's a little something to jog your memory, in case you need it.
https://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/14/30042?page=4#359877
Those other guilds with soft targets are simply smart enough to not piss off the wrong people while also getting what they need/want. That's how they stay out of wars. Simple, huh?
Here's a little something to jog your memory, in case you need it.
https://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/14/30042?page=4#359877
Those other guilds with soft targets are simply smart enough to not piss off the wrong people while also getting what they need/want. That's how they stay out of wars. Simple, huh?
He's not playing dumb. He just has an uncompromising worldview and a strong sense of entitlement. If you read his posts, it's pretty clear that he views compromise as submission, and that he thinks being neutral means that everybody should just give him access to their private property. If they don't, he thinks he has the right to take their property from them and then continue claiming to be neutral.
He's really just a pirate in denial. Not that this is news. :)
He's really just a pirate in denial. Not that this is news. :)
biretak, what do you think of pizza's assessment above?
Your guild is known for the "our way, or the highway" attitude, not negotiating until a compromise is reached that makes all involved parties happy.
I would like to point out that the nationalist guilds who are at odds with TGFT take the exact same stance. Any time some more moderate person within any nationalist guild suggests a toning-down of aggression to non-hostiles, the more extremist members throw a fit and move to destroy any attempt to figure out a solution.
I would like to point out that the nationalist guilds who are at odds with TGFT take the exact same stance. Any time some more moderate person within any nationalist guild suggests a toning-down of aggression to non-hostiles, the more extremist members throw a fit and move to destroy any attempt to figure out a solution.
Pizzasgood neglected to consider that I am shot at first and I need to defend myself both proactively and reactively to protect and access my goods/profits. If certain nationalists and their assets didn't shoot at me, I wouldn't have any reason to get involved in all the violence that goes on around the universe.
Wow, pizza is right on nose. In that last post, you demonstrated absurd sense of entitlement. It's this very shit that gets you into conflicts and wars. Nothing wrong with that, but do you see the silliness of complaining that people won't treat you like a neutral trader?
These same neutrality issues were going on long before the conquerable stations arrived. Neutrality should not necessarily mean passivity.
I'm not going to second guess decisions made by the guild here. As a individual player, I have no problem paying for access to the conq stations. From a guild level and role play perspective I find myself straddling the fence, but leaning in favor of the TGFT position. Though I would not object to a change in guild position, I'm certainly not going to advocate for one. I would much rather see from a role play perspective, this conflict be between FAMY and TGFT or TRI and TGFT or some other grey / UIT guild and TGFT. That would make better sense to me. I think the Serco / Itani conflict should primarily be over Deneb, with a splattering in Grey with adequate local resources for each to accommodate their manufacturing. But alas, VO does not have sufficient population to justify that, so it's best to leave the primary manufacturing in Grey.
Over the years, I've seen TGFT struggle to balance its neutral stance within the immediate climate. I am personally satisfied with the decisions that have been made overall. I'm not saying that there may not have been what I think might have been missteps. I do believe that overall, TGFT has tried diplomacy first with what I consider a fair offer. If that offer is refused, then the guild is obliged to both suffer the consequences as well as look out for it's own interests as best it is able at any given time.
That said, there is a long history that many here are familiar with that have shaped the TGFT perspective. History that long predates those silly manufacturing stations and give some insight into TGFT's self defense behaviors.
I'm not going to second guess decisions made by the guild here. As a individual player, I have no problem paying for access to the conq stations. From a guild level and role play perspective I find myself straddling the fence, but leaning in favor of the TGFT position. Though I would not object to a change in guild position, I'm certainly not going to advocate for one. I would much rather see from a role play perspective, this conflict be between FAMY and TGFT or TRI and TGFT or some other grey / UIT guild and TGFT. That would make better sense to me. I think the Serco / Itani conflict should primarily be over Deneb, with a splattering in Grey with adequate local resources for each to accommodate their manufacturing. But alas, VO does not have sufficient population to justify that, so it's best to leave the primary manufacturing in Grey.
Over the years, I've seen TGFT struggle to balance its neutral stance within the immediate climate. I am personally satisfied with the decisions that have been made overall. I'm not saying that there may not have been what I think might have been missteps. I do believe that overall, TGFT has tried diplomacy first with what I consider a fair offer. If that offer is refused, then the guild is obliged to both suffer the consequences as well as look out for it's own interests as best it is able at any given time.
That said, there is a long history that many here are familiar with that have shaped the TGFT perspective. History that long predates those silly manufacturing stations and give some insight into TGFT's self defense behaviors.
Joylessjoker, I looked at my posts and I didn't see any complaint. I also don't feel entitled. I like to think I make myself useful to those who share resources with me.
The way I look at it, TGFT can only be as neutral as the nationalist guilds are willing to permit. As a simple, neutral trader, I also find that frustrating.
... As a simple, neutral trader, I also find that frustrating.
... I also find that frustrating.
... frustrating.
You expressed negative feelings about the state of things explicitly. Can you elaborate how that is not "complaining"?
As for the entitlement thing, it matters very little how you feel. What matters is the outside perception of you.
... As a simple, neutral trader, I also find that frustrating.
... I also find that frustrating.
... frustrating.
You expressed negative feelings about the state of things explicitly. Can you elaborate how that is not "complaining"?
As for the entitlement thing, it matters very little how you feel. What matters is the outside perception of you.
it matters very little how you feel. What matters is the outside perception of you.
Wow.
Wow.
I would like to point out that the nationalist guilds who are at odds with TGFT take the exact same stance. Any time some more moderate person within any nationalist guild suggests a toning-down of aggression to non-hostiles, the more extremist members throw a fit and move to destroy any attempt to figure out a solution.
You're wrong!
A) We gave a number of options to TGFT in our private negotiations with them all of which they rejected and then they failed to offer up ANY ALTERNATIVE at ANY POINT IN TIME IN THE HISTORY OF NEGOTIATIONS WITH THEM.
B) We are very nice to our members in RED, and I know from being in other nationalist guilds that we have frank discussions about these matters and everyone's opinions are welcome. You are trying to suggest that we have a culture of tyranny when it's not the case at all. I've heard internal guild conversations in ONE, SKV and even Itan and TGFT. On the Serco side the conversations are ALWAYS more civil.
You're wrong!
A) We gave a number of options to TGFT in our private negotiations with them all of which they rejected and then they failed to offer up ANY ALTERNATIVE at ANY POINT IN TIME IN THE HISTORY OF NEGOTIATIONS WITH THEM.
B) We are very nice to our members in RED, and I know from being in other nationalist guilds that we have frank discussions about these matters and everyone's opinions are welcome. You are trying to suggest that we have a culture of tyranny when it's not the case at all. I've heard internal guild conversations in ONE, SKV and even Itan and TGFT. On the Serco side the conversations are ALWAYS more civil.
A) my understanding is things went differently, but I'll leave it at that
B) your guild conversations are more civil than TGFTs? how is that possible?
B) your guild conversations are more civil than TGFTs? how is that possible?
A) They offered up no alternatives to our proposals or to their singular proposal (i.e. their way or the highway)
B) The presumption that just because we are war guilds we fight amongst ourselves as well is ridiculous. But of course you haven't explained why you find it to be unbelievable so please outline why you say it is hard to believe.
B) The presumption that just because we are war guilds we fight amongst ourselves as well is ridiculous. But of course you haven't explained why you find it to be unbelievable so please outline why you say it is hard to believe.
Joylessjoker, I don't really consider that a complaint because there's nothing that can be done about it. It's just the way some nationalist pilots are... they like to blow things up like pirates because they can get away with it. If TGFT disappeared, they'd pick the next largest group to shoot at.
theredspy, like greenwall said, it's easy to have peace with TGFT. TGFT is the nicest bunch of pilots in VO. It's as easy as two guilds just agreeing not to shoot at each other, as a start, and holding their members accountable. But, nationalist guilds tend to let their members shoot whoever they like when the pilot gets the whim instead of working things out through diplomatic channels.
theredspy, like greenwall said, it's easy to have peace with TGFT. TGFT is the nicest bunch of pilots in VO. It's as easy as two guilds just agreeing not to shoot at each other, as a start, and holding their members accountable. But, nationalist guilds tend to let their members shoot whoever they like when the pilot gets the whim instead of working things out through diplomatic channels.
Biretak, lets look up merrian-webster and see what "complain" means:
com·plain
kəmˈplān
verb
express dissatisfaction or annoyance about a state of affairs or an event
Would you agree that you were expressing an annoyance/dissatisfication about nationalists? Your word choice of "frustrating" certainly does sound like it.
What does "nothing can be done about it" have anything to do with the definition of complaining?
com·plain
kəmˈplān
verb
express dissatisfaction or annoyance about a state of affairs or an event
Would you agree that you were expressing an annoyance/dissatisfication about nationalists? Your word choice of "frustrating" certainly does sound like it.
What does "nothing can be done about it" have anything to do with the definition of complaining?
@TRS
Well I'm aware of several occasions with RED, ONE and ITAN (not SKV though!) where there were members who wanted to lessen hostilities but they were met with strong opposition that resulted, at least in some cases, with their being removed from their positions and/or the guilds themselves. I didn't mean to imply that RED was not able to have civil discussions. I merely was befuddled that you'd claim that RED's discussions were more civil than TGFT's discussions, many of which I have been privy to and can attest to their utmost level of civility.
As far as your proposals to TGFT, again I won't get into it here in any detail, but I still understand things went differently. If any TGFT leader wants to speak up about this, they can feel free. Otherwise we can just agree to disagree.
Well I'm aware of several occasions with RED, ONE and ITAN (not SKV though!) where there were members who wanted to lessen hostilities but they were met with strong opposition that resulted, at least in some cases, with their being removed from their positions and/or the guilds themselves. I didn't mean to imply that RED was not able to have civil discussions. I merely was befuddled that you'd claim that RED's discussions were more civil than TGFT's discussions, many of which I have been privy to and can attest to their utmost level of civility.
As far as your proposals to TGFT, again I won't get into it here in any detail, but I still understand things went differently. If any TGFT leader wants to speak up about this, they can feel free. Otherwise we can just agree to disagree.
relations in vo go like this.
Yes kyle, its easy to have peace with TGFT if you just give them whatever they want like station keys for free which they won't help you defend at all. In fact they will not only not defend stations for you, but if your enemy comes along they will occasionally assist them by giving them repairs in tridents or giving them trade route data or providing your location to them via their alts and if you complain about it ecka tells you to 'feck off'.
Well, everyone's figured out this finally (only took you like 4 years longer than me, good job everyone!) and now we've told TGFT to feck off, so..
Cro, Kenny and greenwall, feck you and feck off TGFT, phone us when you matter cherubs!
Well, everyone's figured out this finally (only took you like 4 years longer than me, good job everyone!) and now we've told TGFT to feck off, so..
Cro, Kenny and greenwall, feck you and feck off TGFT, phone us when you matter cherubs!
(off topicness removed)