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Seriously, the VPR claims about Pirates asking for money just don't hold up. The truth is, pirates are your best friend in grey space, as long as you treat em right.
Bah. I didn't want to post here again, but whatever.
If you pay off CHRN, what's going stop someone from CLM from pirating you? Paying CHRN won't protect you from FusionBurn, Blood Thirsty, k'metreq, or Vskye. You going to pay them all off, just in case? Also, when you pay pirates, you're promoting piracy. You're doing what they want, making it more appealing to be a rat, and indirectly making it more likely that others will be pirated. If we all just did whatever was easiest, we'd all likely engage in piracy and griefing, but some of us find it fun to have principles that we play the game by. We don't just think about our own enjoyment and what's easiest for us at a given moment. We think about other people and the long-term big picture.
I'm not saying that there shouldn't be piracy (obviously). The game would be boring without it. I think piracy is great and an important part of VO, but not all of us are going to go along with it and just make this "Piracy Online". There has to be balance. Some of us chose an opposing role, to fight it, either by actively hunting rats and escorting traders, or by simply not paying rats or cooperating with them. To suggest that everyone should just cooperate with the rats is ridiculous.
And Ryan, I didn't take it "so personally", although you did put my guild right in your thread title and you didn't really need to make your point by talking about "VPR wreckage in B-8", which is honestly a bit irrelevant to the effectiveness of escorts. How exactly was I supposed to react to this thread? Or would you have preferred I remain silent so people could just hear your opinion? It appeared that you were not just trying to support CHRN and the merits of paying off rats, but also taking a shot at VPR, as usual. That being said, the anti-pirate groups have been defeating the pirate groups for the last couple of nights. I'd put the VPR combat vets up against the CHRN ones any day. Yes, we have several new recruits and members who are still learning, but they will be dangerous soon enough. But again, this is irrelevant to the actual topic here.
I'm just offering a rebuttal to your suggestion that we should all be paying CHRN. If Vipers are online and available in your area, we're happy to escort you and it won't cost a dime. Other players other than Vipers may also offer these services as well. I imagine a lot of traders will prefer that option to paying the pirates, but that's their choice to make, not your's or mine.
If you pay off CHRN, what's going stop someone from CLM from pirating you? Paying CHRN won't protect you from FusionBurn, Blood Thirsty, k'metreq, or Vskye. You going to pay them all off, just in case? Also, when you pay pirates, you're promoting piracy. You're doing what they want, making it more appealing to be a rat, and indirectly making it more likely that others will be pirated. If we all just did whatever was easiest, we'd all likely engage in piracy and griefing, but some of us find it fun to have principles that we play the game by. We don't just think about our own enjoyment and what's easiest for us at a given moment. We think about other people and the long-term big picture.
I'm not saying that there shouldn't be piracy (obviously). The game would be boring without it. I think piracy is great and an important part of VO, but not all of us are going to go along with it and just make this "Piracy Online". There has to be balance. Some of us chose an opposing role, to fight it, either by actively hunting rats and escorting traders, or by simply not paying rats or cooperating with them. To suggest that everyone should just cooperate with the rats is ridiculous.
And Ryan, I didn't take it "so personally", although you did put my guild right in your thread title and you didn't really need to make your point by talking about "VPR wreckage in B-8", which is honestly a bit irrelevant to the effectiveness of escorts. How exactly was I supposed to react to this thread? Or would you have preferred I remain silent so people could just hear your opinion? It appeared that you were not just trying to support CHRN and the merits of paying off rats, but also taking a shot at VPR, as usual. That being said, the anti-pirate groups have been defeating the pirate groups for the last couple of nights. I'd put the VPR combat vets up against the CHRN ones any day. Yes, we have several new recruits and members who are still learning, but they will be dangerous soon enough. But again, this is irrelevant to the actual topic here.
I'm just offering a rebuttal to your suggestion that we should all be paying CHRN. If Vipers are online and available in your area, we're happy to escort you and it won't cost a dime. Other players other than Vipers may also offer these services as well. I imagine a lot of traders will prefer that option to paying the pirates, but that's their choice to make, not your's or mine.
Oh, heavens, if I thought this might actually get the majority of traders to start paying us, I'd stop arguing for it right now. The truth is, I'm glad that there are people with "principles" who don't believe in the Taoist lessons of the supple reed, otherwise I might not get to chase people.
The saying goes, "When the strong wind blows, the stiff reed breaks"
Or perhaps more literal, from Sun Tzu:
"If the smaller side is stubborn, it becomes the captive of the larger side"
The saying goes, "When the strong wind blows, the stiff reed breaks"
Or perhaps more literal, from Sun Tzu:
"If the smaller side is stubborn, it becomes the captive of the larger side"
"People who show that they are willing to cooperate get discounts, escorts, and occasionally even a free pass."
I once got a free pass that lasted nearly 30 days because I showed one of VOs most notorious pirates a picture of a cute little kitten... or maybe it was a video of something piratey... I dont recall!
I once got a free pass that lasted nearly 30 days because I showed one of VOs most notorious pirates a picture of a cute little kitten... or maybe it was a video of something piratey... I dont recall!
Once again....
/me AINT a Pirate!
/me is a beautiful flower : )
I've never charged anyone for safe passage, i just invited some players to dinner :]
That's call being on top of the food chain : )
Put this between yer ears Strat : p
/me AINT a Pirate!
/me is a beautiful flower : )
I've never charged anyone for safe passage, i just invited some players to dinner :]
That's call being on top of the food chain : )
Put this between yer ears Strat : p
strat does have one point, paying chrn doesn't necessarily protect you from clm, when we are active. that being said, paying works, on very rare occasion have i killed players that paid me, but, accidents do happen, and money can be refunded. And flag, going on the attack aginst a pirate while in a loaded moth, isn't always suicide, on probably a dozen occasions now ive killed some form of anti pirate while picking up loot with a moth.
Excerpts from last night's fun.
======================================
*Strat* thats not true, but okay.
*Strat* and even if it was, it's not OUR JOB to do anything
->Strat: by definition, would you say you are an antipirate guild?
->Strat: ahem
*Strat* read our website, joining the vipers thread.
*Strat* rather than me explaining it to you
*Strat* please
->Strat: well... i've been pirating people all day while vprs duel eachother :P
*Strat* we go after you if we feel like it. period.
*Strat* if not, its not our problem
========================================
this was PM, and it may be a little shifty of me to post it publicly, but i felt it relevant.
Call upon the vipers. If they feel like it, they'll help you.
Silverwolfe: (i don't even know if he checks the forums) yesterday when i attacked you in dau, and you reported me on 4357, how many of those dueling vipers came to your rescue?
it was 0/4 wasn't it?!
oh noes!
really it didn't matter much, because i was already down to 2% from turret fire, but it's the thought that counts!
CHRN escort > VPR escort
hur hur hur
======================================
*Strat* thats not true, but okay.
*Strat* and even if it was, it's not OUR JOB to do anything
->Strat: by definition, would you say you are an antipirate guild?
->Strat: ahem
*Strat* read our website, joining the vipers thread.
*Strat* rather than me explaining it to you
*Strat* please
->Strat: well... i've been pirating people all day while vprs duel eachother :P
*Strat* we go after you if we feel like it. period.
*Strat* if not, its not our problem
========================================
this was PM, and it may be a little shifty of me to post it publicly, but i felt it relevant.
Call upon the vipers. If they feel like it, they'll help you.
Silverwolfe: (i don't even know if he checks the forums) yesterday when i attacked you in dau, and you reported me on 4357, how many of those dueling vipers came to your rescue?
it was 0/4 wasn't it?!
oh noes!
really it didn't matter much, because i was already down to 2% from turret fire, but it's the thought that counts!
CHRN escort > VPR escort
hur hur hur
CHRN escort > VPR escort
You get what ye pay for ; )
You get what ye pay for ; )
Oh, and to respond to Strat's question about what to do if you paid CHRN and CLM comes cruising by? Well, if you paid for an escort, the CLM member, will, in general, respect the CHRN member's escort. CLM and CHRN get along well, so I don't see why it would be a problem.
I have no problem being quoted. I stated common knowledge that is clearly displayed publicly on our website.
http://www.viperguild.com/cgi/simpleforum_pro.cgi?fid=03&topic_id=1194886129
The Vipers aren't responsible for every trader's safety in VO. Every time a pirate kills a random trader, it isn't some sort of failure for VPR (even though the rats like to think it is). That would be dumb. If we receive a request for escort and accept (which we usually do), then we are taking temporary responsibility for that one trader's safety for that specific period of time. It also isn't our job or responsibility to go after every single pirate that's online at a given time. Usually we feel like it, so we do it, but if we feel like trading, PvP'ing, mining, or discussing fine wine, we'll do that instead. Vipers aren't obligated to do anything they don't want to do.
http://www.viperguild.com/cgi/simpleforum_pro.cgi?fid=03&topic_id=1194886129
The Vipers aren't responsible for every trader's safety in VO. Every time a pirate kills a random trader, it isn't some sort of failure for VPR (even though the rats like to think it is). That would be dumb. If we receive a request for escort and accept (which we usually do), then we are taking temporary responsibility for that one trader's safety for that specific period of time. It also isn't our job or responsibility to go after every single pirate that's online at a given time. Usually we feel like it, so we do it, but if we feel like trading, PvP'ing, mining, or discussing fine wine, we'll do that instead. Vipers aren't obligated to do anything they don't want to do.
Except strat, you expect them to listen to you and then bail on them when they do. I killed 14 traders last night and several said "strat said to never pay a pirate." so they died, some more than once, lost their cargo, and in almost all cases would have gotten of cheaper by paying.
You can't preach constantly to not pay and then leave them to their doom. If you wield an influence you have to take responsibility for it.
You can't preach constantly to not pay and then leave them to their doom. If you wield an influence you have to take responsibility for it.
Nowhere in this thread did I say that no one should ever pay a pirate.
[VPR] lack the intellect, to say nothing of the spirit, to discuss fine wine.
A rousing debate about your prefered brand of by-the-box white zinfandel doesn't count, Strat.
A rousing debate about your prefered brand of by-the-box white zinfandel doesn't count, Strat.
Strat said: "If you pay off CHRN, what's going stop someone from CLM from pirating you? Paying CHRN won't protect you from FusionBurn, Blood Thirsty, k'metreq, or Vskye. You going to pay them all off, just in case? Also, when you pay pirates, you're promoting piracy. You're doing what they want, making it more appealing to be a rat, and indirectly making it more likely that others will be pirated."
I'm just offering a rebuttal to your suggestion that we should all be paying CHRN."
I could go through logs and quote you and other Vipers on 100 saying "Never pay pirates" but you know you and Viper say it all the time.
I'm just offering a rebuttal to your suggestion that we should all be paying CHRN."
I could go through logs and quote you and other Vipers on 100 saying "Never pay pirates" but you know you and Viper say it all the time.
Well about the quality of VPR escorts, i think its good. had some escorts today with rats encounter and anything went fine,
and paying a pirate is for me only a last resort when im carrying something like lawneuts,
and heck im glad there is finaly some real action between pirates and VPR and other players, let the fire burn!
and paying a pirate is for me only a last resort when im carrying something like lawneuts,
and heck im glad there is finaly some real action between pirates and VPR and other players, let the fire burn!
paying a pirate is for me only a last resort when im carrying something like lawneuts
It is apparent to me that traders have become both sloppy and arrogant due to the relatively low level of skilled pirate activity in past years. While [CHRN] is clearly giving these dears a proper introduction to Grey, there are only so many of them to go around.
As for [VPR], they, too, have declined markedly. Nerde Verde was a worthy opponent, but Strat? He's come a long way from his first engagements--and innumerable deaths--in B8, but still isn't up to the old [VPR] standard. Given the length of time he's been in game, I am forced to conclude that it's a lack of raw talent and not practice that is now the limiting factor.
I look forward to returning soon.
It is apparent to me that traders have become both sloppy and arrogant due to the relatively low level of skilled pirate activity in past years. While [CHRN] is clearly giving these dears a proper introduction to Grey, there are only so many of them to go around.
As for [VPR], they, too, have declined markedly. Nerde Verde was a worthy opponent, but Strat? He's come a long way from his first engagements--and innumerable deaths--in B8, but still isn't up to the old [VPR] standard. Given the length of time he's been in game, I am forced to conclude that it's a lack of raw talent and not practice that is now the limiting factor.
I look forward to returning soon.
Lecter stop complaining and come in the fragging game
Lecter stop complaining and come in the fragging game
I second that.
I second that.
Strat said: Nowhere in this thread did I say that no one should ever pay a pirate.
Okay, I'll say it: No one should EVER pay a pirate. Ever ever ever never never never. Trust me, they LOVE it when you run. It only makes their job more enjoyable.
Okay, I'll say it: No one should EVER pay a pirate. Ever ever ever never never never. Trust me, they LOVE it when you run. It only makes their job more enjoyable.
Lecter stop complaining and come in the fragging game
Thirded.
-Chaakin Tockoa
Thirded.
-Chaakin Tockoa