Forums » Role Playing
Yoda... the problem is NOT that someone fired first, it's that he continually disrupted the War.
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can't be bothered.
can't be bothered.
i volunteer to stay on his ass for the duration of the next nation war.
and i'll bring some friends, too.
when's the next one?
and i'll bring some friends, too.
when's the next one?
There's a Midweek War Wednesday at 20:00 GMT (I think) and a normal one on Sunday at the same time.
That's 1:00pm for me - no can do.
Make it late at night PST, then I can commit. Yes, I know there are fewer people on - but that's the time I have to offer.
Make it late at night PST, then I can commit. Yes, I know there are fewer people on - but that's the time I have to offer.
This situation could have ended much differently in my opinon, if both BG and Omega had been booted instead of just BG. Just my opinion on the situation after hearing both sides. Two wrongs dont make a right and in this case there were three wrongs:
1.Omega fired on BG for being in the roid
2.BG came back shooting at Omega
3. When booting someone for breaking the rules, only one offender was booted.
Im not saying BG was right, I AM saying booting one and not the other was wrong. Most any of us would have been furious too under these circumstances. And I said as much when I logged on shortly after this happened.
1.Omega fired on BG for being in the roid
2.BG came back shooting at Omega
3. When booting someone for breaking the rules, only one offender was booted.
Im not saying BG was right, I AM saying booting one and not the other was wrong. Most any of us would have been furious too under these circumstances. And I said as much when I logged on shortly after this happened.
Booting is up to the organizer. Ecka choose to boot BG but not Omega.
What every seems to forget is that Ecka ordered BG to leave the roid. Omega wasn't acting agaist rules. He was trying to help the moderator out. BG took it to far. He might have left the roid before NW started but he might not have. He is the reason for the rule that says u can't hide in roids. He's abused roids before. While I've been there. If he just left the roid when ordered too none of this would have happened.
Now i wasn't in the sector but i was in game for the whole sorted incident and i know what was reported on chan 100 by Ecka and all the other players.
What every seems to forget is that Ecka ordered BG to leave the roid. Omega wasn't acting agaist rules. He was trying to help the moderator out. BG took it to far. He might have left the roid before NW started but he might not have. He is the reason for the rule that says u can't hide in roids. He's abused roids before. While I've been there. If he just left the roid when ordered too none of this would have happened.
Now i wasn't in the sector but i was in game for the whole sorted incident and i know what was reported on chan 100 by Ecka and all the other players.
Basically, what we've learned here is that the rules of nation war aren't consistently enforced, the rules of VO are, and that there's a damn good reason only circle-jerking newbs take part in the nation wars in the first place.
PS:
http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/1/16764?page=2#211599
PS:
http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/1/16764?page=2#211599
looks to me like both omega and BG should have been booted from the event, I'm not suprised BG came back to hassle omega, hell I woudl have probably done the same, just not for an extended period of time. also did bg say anything to ecka immediatley about omega being allowd to continue in the event?
Ecka has presented his position on this issue. BG has not presented formal challenge to Ecka's position, and until he does so, I believe that we have little choice but to accept Ecka's decisions in this matter as final.
Thanks for the link, genka, I appreciate you quoting the words of the shop owner. In this context, it's very appropriate, and basically confirms my provocative, wicked twisting of Whistler's words.
Guild Software apparently either/or 1) doesn't bother to, 2) doesn't know how to, 3) doesn't intend to, provide a system-generated, interesting, exciting challenge for users. This game is "light on content", and we should just deal with it.
To avoid "awesome boredom" for lack of targets, it tolerates and incentivates players who make an ass out of themselves, playing the role of villains, event disrupters, general nuisance, pirates, and pains-in-the-ass.
It's not a shock, much less unexpected. I'm just glad that it was finally set forth as the formal law of the land. So, be free to ruin everyone's else fun. There are no consequences. You will even be welcome to do so. Welcome to Vendetta Online.
Guild Software apparently either/or 1) doesn't bother to, 2) doesn't know how to, 3) doesn't intend to, provide a system-generated, interesting, exciting challenge for users. This game is "light on content", and we should just deal with it.
To avoid "awesome boredom" for lack of targets, it tolerates and incentivates players who make an ass out of themselves, playing the role of villains, event disrupters, general nuisance, pirates, and pains-in-the-ass.
It's not a shock, much less unexpected. I'm just glad that it was finally set forth as the formal law of the land. So, be free to ruin everyone's else fun. There are no consequences. You will even be welcome to do so. Welcome to Vendetta Online.
Syylk, I'm sure I'm going to give Whistler a headache posting this...but...
Go to hell.
If you don't have some kind of constructive comments to provide, then don't post.
Go to hell.
If you don't have some kind of constructive comments to provide, then don't post.
I wasnt there so can only go on what ive read. What did BG DO sit in a roid! was he planning on taking part? He was shot first was he not, And yes i would hold grudge - vendetta is it not.
Its a player run event, not an actual part of the game content. Yes BG may have been bending the rules of NW but not of the game, and likewise so was omega by shooting. It should have been down to ecka to sort as he was running it, and both should have been booted. Unless the all clear was given to kill BG. Then this wouldnt be against NW rules or the games (not very clearly explained but i know what i mean :P )
If you want more control over player based content then we need to role play it with more intensity. Keep the location secret, throw out decoys, vet group memebers, hire bouncers etc etc or even see about making a mission string for it and get the devs to shove it in.
Ive been in NW before and delays are damn annoying and can ruin the fun, but it is a player run event - so lets not get annoyed when another player IS playing the game and not our in house mini-game.
And as mentioned before more guide presence in game overall would be good, just a presence could have made the situation less heated and offered a neutral opinion, so maybe we could get more guides appointed? But i do think as it is a player run event we can solve it ourselves just by increasing some role play elements, and maybe even think about changing NW formats with arrival of new players in VO.
But lets just remember its a role playing PvP game called vendetta, so lets not hold a grudge against someone for playing the game their way eh, Be Nice.
Its a player run event, not an actual part of the game content. Yes BG may have been bending the rules of NW but not of the game, and likewise so was omega by shooting. It should have been down to ecka to sort as he was running it, and both should have been booted. Unless the all clear was given to kill BG. Then this wouldnt be against NW rules or the games (not very clearly explained but i know what i mean :P )
If you want more control over player based content then we need to role play it with more intensity. Keep the location secret, throw out decoys, vet group memebers, hire bouncers etc etc or even see about making a mission string for it and get the devs to shove it in.
Ive been in NW before and delays are damn annoying and can ruin the fun, but it is a player run event - so lets not get annoyed when another player IS playing the game and not our in house mini-game.
And as mentioned before more guide presence in game overall would be good, just a presence could have made the situation less heated and offered a neutral opinion, so maybe we could get more guides appointed? But i do think as it is a player run event we can solve it ourselves just by increasing some role play elements, and maybe even think about changing NW formats with arrival of new players in VO.
But lets just remember its a role playing PvP game called vendetta, so lets not hold a grudge against someone for playing the game their way eh, Be Nice.
I've kinda been trying to stay out of this as I was neither present ingame for the war nor at the computer to watch the chatter about it from IRC at the time it occurred, but I think I need to say this:
Hiding within the collision mesh of another solid object (station, capship or asteroid, generally) is an exploit, and has been labeled as such since the alpha period. BG in particular has been known in the past (and apparently also in the present, too) to be one of the (ab)users of this particular exploit.
Because hiding inside other solid objects is an exploit, BG wasn't bending only the rules of the Nation War, but he was also "bending" (more accurately, "breaking") the rules of the game. Omega was well within his rights to attack BG for having done the exploit in the nation war sector and refusing to leave the asteroid when asked the first time. It might have been a pre-emptive move, but think about it--several people, including a Guide, have said that this is "just BG's thing" or that this "was not the first event that [BG] has disrupted."
On these grounds, Omega had every reason to attack BG, and kicking BG from the Nation War was perfectly legit--if BG has done this kind of thing frequently in the past in the presence of other players, even if in this particular case he wasn't doing it during the combat, who could really say for certain that he wouldn't do it during the actual event?
BG has been around for several years. I would have thought that he'd know better than to do something like that by now, but apparently not. It's common sense: if you're caught exploiting, and you're told to stop, STOP.
For some people, the player-run events are really the only thing that VO has to offer in terms of content at the moment. Disrupting these events doesn't help the community at all, especially not with all these new players around who we've been telling that despite the lack of content, the community is VO's selling point. In fact, it works directly against that claim.
Whistler and Incarnate may be right that it is somewhat our "duty" as players to police ourselves, but as soon as someone starts exploiting the game, the gloves need to come off and a guide or dev needs to step in. Especially when the exploit involved has the potential to prevent the other players from dealing with/countering it. All BG would have to do is find a roid large enough to avoid rocket splash damage and he'd be effectively untouchable.
My support in this case is with Ecka and company.
Hiding within the collision mesh of another solid object (station, capship or asteroid, generally) is an exploit, and has been labeled as such since the alpha period. BG in particular has been known in the past (and apparently also in the present, too) to be one of the (ab)users of this particular exploit.
Because hiding inside other solid objects is an exploit, BG wasn't bending only the rules of the Nation War, but he was also "bending" (more accurately, "breaking") the rules of the game. Omega was well within his rights to attack BG for having done the exploit in the nation war sector and refusing to leave the asteroid when asked the first time. It might have been a pre-emptive move, but think about it--several people, including a Guide, have said that this is "just BG's thing" or that this "was not the first event that [BG] has disrupted."
On these grounds, Omega had every reason to attack BG, and kicking BG from the Nation War was perfectly legit--if BG has done this kind of thing frequently in the past in the presence of other players, even if in this particular case he wasn't doing it during the combat, who could really say for certain that he wouldn't do it during the actual event?
BG has been around for several years. I would have thought that he'd know better than to do something like that by now, but apparently not. It's common sense: if you're caught exploiting, and you're told to stop, STOP.
For some people, the player-run events are really the only thing that VO has to offer in terms of content at the moment. Disrupting these events doesn't help the community at all, especially not with all these new players around who we've been telling that despite the lack of content, the community is VO's selling point. In fact, it works directly against that claim.
Whistler and Incarnate may be right that it is somewhat our "duty" as players to police ourselves, but as soon as someone starts exploiting the game, the gloves need to come off and a guide or dev needs to step in. Especially when the exploit involved has the potential to prevent the other players from dealing with/countering it. All BG would have to do is find a roid large enough to avoid rocket splash damage and he'd be effectively untouchable.
My support in this case is with Ecka and company.
Suggestion for next time: relocate to another sector. Sedina D-2 is not the only sector applicable for a nation war, now is it.
I'm sorry, at this point I might be taking this thread back to a topic most people have moved beyond, but I'm kinda short on time, so I didn't bother reading the long newb-a-rades.
Anyway,
Syylk, how could you POSSIBLY see this as a bad thing?
I don't know, maybe I've watched too much law and order, but I am sincerely confused over here. Help me out.
Anyway,
Syylk, how could you POSSIBLY see this as a bad thing?
I don't know, maybe I've watched too much law and order, but I am sincerely confused over here. Help me out.
Genka, actually I didn't say (nor think) it's bad! :)
I just see it as a basic failure of the system to provide any alternative to self appointed villains; but if the rule is "no rules" (see Miha's description of bug exploiting), then I will simply deal with it, and accept that everyone (me included) can plant chaos at will without consequences. Simple as that.
I just see it as a basic failure of the system to provide any alternative to self appointed villains; but if the rule is "no rules" (see Miha's description of bug exploiting), then I will simply deal with it, and accept that everyone (me included) can plant chaos at will without consequences. Simple as that.
We are all free to do as we want to. No rules. Wild wild west here we come :)
Ah, well alright then! Sorry to have misunderstood.
It's always been my understanding that we can do in game whatever we want, outside of exploiting bugs in the game code. Flaws in the game design like say law farming or taking BP without a mission enter into a grey area. Simply flying around blasting the crap out of whatever you come across, well within the spirit of the game.
Some like Syylk seem to prefer this game become care bear land, with no non-consensual PVP whatsoever; no piracy, no bounty hunting, no killing ctc participants, only dueling. If I have misundersood you please let me know because if that's what you want then please find a different game because that's not how this game is. Non-consensual PVP is an integral part of this game, the Developers have said that many times over. If somebody wants to try and disrupt your event they are violating no game rules doing so. That doesn't mean they aren't being an asshole doing so, it only means there is no consequences outside of what the game mechanics allow the players to do.
Finally a suggestion, try hiring a few people to station camp anybody who tries to interfere with the event, It's well within what you are allowed to do in the game, 3 good shooters with quad rails should be able to do the job for a reasonable price.
Some like Syylk seem to prefer this game become care bear land, with no non-consensual PVP whatsoever; no piracy, no bounty hunting, no killing ctc participants, only dueling. If I have misundersood you please let me know because if that's what you want then please find a different game because that's not how this game is. Non-consensual PVP is an integral part of this game, the Developers have said that many times over. If somebody wants to try and disrupt your event they are violating no game rules doing so. That doesn't mean they aren't being an asshole doing so, it only means there is no consequences outside of what the game mechanics allow the players to do.
Finally a suggestion, try hiring a few people to station camp anybody who tries to interfere with the event, It's well within what you are allowed to do in the game, 3 good shooters with quad rails should be able to do the job for a reasonable price.