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I think spider is right for the most part. I do think that the warthog is a decent ship but I wont deny that it could use some improvement.
@Paedric: The comment Softy was refferring to is just above his reference. (use the find command when you cant locate something).
@Paedric: The comment Softy was refferring to is just above his reference. (use the find command when you cant locate something).
ctishman, if you think those rails will primarily have an effect on an SC, try a rail MkI today and fight a few SC battles. try it. please. do. then fight some other ships, like Warthogs or Rev Cs. those rails won't hurt the SC in any way compared to what it'll do to other ships.
anyone who believes it's _easy_ to own an SC with rails obviously hasn't tried this. it's a _lot_ easier to take down a warthog than an SC. eating the Aggresso is a walk in the park compared to the SC. the Prom MkII before the slight nerf in a good pilots hands was hard enough. heck, I had less problems taking down Valks.
Spellcast has come up with ideas on how to make Vendetta at least viable as a game where picking a ship becomes a matter of flying style, I'm amazed that people refuse to see this. how many people did what BL people did when the new prom came out? lots and lots of battles with different pilots in different ships and different layouts. who else has spent this amount of time to see what is the _real_ effect of ships are?
how many people here have taken on SCs constantly for a week using rails, fighting around 10 different pilots, gaining around 80 deaths in doing so (to those of you who let me go at 20% sine you felt the testing was relevant, thanks, you know who you are), to see just how rails actually work? how many of the people going "the current prom is okay" have fought it systematically to see what effect the ship has on combat?
look, I'm not a great PvP player. but you know what? I've lost _ONE_ SkyCommand. _ONE_. and I lost it to the Cap ship. it's silly, _I_ am not that good. no, I don't duel much in the SC, I actually refuse to do so, but I fly anywhere with absolutly no fear at all.
like Yoda said "not you too" when he saw me in a SC. well, duh. visit B8 some day, take a ship count of what you see people bring in to fight in. you want to fight? take a SkyCommand. it's the only viable option today. there are rare reasons to take other ships, but they've become extremly special purpose. a purpose that has very little to do with the subject tram chose for this thread.
anyone who believes it's _easy_ to own an SC with rails obviously hasn't tried this. it's a _lot_ easier to take down a warthog than an SC. eating the Aggresso is a walk in the park compared to the SC. the Prom MkII before the slight nerf in a good pilots hands was hard enough. heck, I had less problems taking down Valks.
Spellcast has come up with ideas on how to make Vendetta at least viable as a game where picking a ship becomes a matter of flying style, I'm amazed that people refuse to see this. how many people did what BL people did when the new prom came out? lots and lots of battles with different pilots in different ships and different layouts. who else has spent this amount of time to see what is the _real_ effect of ships are?
how many people here have taken on SCs constantly for a week using rails, fighting around 10 different pilots, gaining around 80 deaths in doing so (to those of you who let me go at 20% sine you felt the testing was relevant, thanks, you know who you are), to see just how rails actually work? how many of the people going "the current prom is okay" have fought it systematically to see what effect the ship has on combat?
look, I'm not a great PvP player. but you know what? I've lost _ONE_ SkyCommand. _ONE_. and I lost it to the Cap ship. it's silly, _I_ am not that good. no, I don't duel much in the SC, I actually refuse to do so, but I fly anywhere with absolutly no fear at all.
like Yoda said "not you too" when he saw me in a SC. well, duh. visit B8 some day, take a ship count of what you see people bring in to fight in. you want to fight? take a SkyCommand. it's the only viable option today. there are rare reasons to take other ships, but they've become extremly special purpose. a purpose that has very little to do with the subject tram chose for this thread.
I never said nerf the prom. But the imbalance is ridiculous and Id like to see things evened out, whether its by nerfing some things, or by making some others better I dont really care. And really im not reffering to just the prom, but the fact that there seems to always be an uber ship/weapon combo and everytime one happens, the same group of people who use and abuse it claim theres nothing wrong, and that those of us saying there is should "stop whining" "learn to adapt" "fly the said combo" etc. If this is how things are going to continue, then fine, I'll stop playing. Most of BL is fed up with these uber combos, and we do more experimenting with weapon ship setups than most being a primarily combat oriented guild, yet it seems everytime we say something is wrong, we just get told to shut up.
ctishman: Queenbuster = Mega Positron Blaster. The more powerful L-port positron that still has normal auto-aiming, which means that even in a Warthog with only that gun, you still only can manage a few hits against only the largest targets cuz no ship mounting an L port is maneuverable enough to hit anything smaller. Heck, I can't even hit a Prom with the damn thing in my hog. Eldrad almost started laughing at me for that one. Even after he killed me, he couldn't believe that I actually tried. The Flechette in the S port didn't help my case either.
Homing Missile Suggestions:
http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/9080
I finally got around to bookmarking it so I don't have to go digging through dozens of topics. It'd involve quite a bit of reworking to the missiles, but they'd be a hell of a lot more viable than they are now. And there's enough differentiation between them that I tend to think that we'd see all of the missile types used.
Aaanyway...
terjekv: of course it's a lot easier to take down a warthog than an SCP. Given that the warthog has less than half the armor (heck, it has less armor than some valkyries... which I think is kinda wrong), its thrust is disproportionately lower than the prom's, so adding weapons has a much more obvious affect on its maneuverability.
People laugh at me now when they see me come onto the battlefield. Course then again, they've always laughed at me flying a hog (maybe it's the "Mineral Extractor" preceding "Warthog" when they target me... I dunno). Until I killed them. Then they didn't laugh so much. Then a lot of people started flying hogs... So I killed them too. So they all went back to IBGs, and now Proms... and I am a lot less successful killing them.
Yea, I flew the prom for a while, but people would either just run away before I could fire, or they'd complain that I was being cheap or whatever. And that was just in the Prom II... Which really isn't that great of a prom. I dunno. I still think the other fighters should be balanced rather than the Prom getting nerfed. To me, nerfing the prom is too much like taking one step forward and then two back.
Homing Missile Suggestions:
http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/9080
I finally got around to bookmarking it so I don't have to go digging through dozens of topics. It'd involve quite a bit of reworking to the missiles, but they'd be a hell of a lot more viable than they are now. And there's enough differentiation between them that I tend to think that we'd see all of the missile types used.
Aaanyway...
terjekv: of course it's a lot easier to take down a warthog than an SCP. Given that the warthog has less than half the armor (heck, it has less armor than some valkyries... which I think is kinda wrong), its thrust is disproportionately lower than the prom's, so adding weapons has a much more obvious affect on its maneuverability.
People laugh at me now when they see me come onto the battlefield. Course then again, they've always laughed at me flying a hog (maybe it's the "Mineral Extractor" preceding "Warthog" when they target me... I dunno). Until I killed them. Then they didn't laugh so much. Then a lot of people started flying hogs... So I killed them too. So they all went back to IBGs, and now Proms... and I am a lot less successful killing them.
Yea, I flew the prom for a while, but people would either just run away before I could fire, or they'd complain that I was being cheap or whatever. And that was just in the Prom II... Which really isn't that great of a prom. I dunno. I still think the other fighters should be balanced rather than the Prom getting nerfed. To me, nerfing the prom is too much like taking one step forward and then two back.
We already know that if you modify a weapon to become a counter to a specific ship, you end up with problems. Un-nerfing the rail guns will not solve the problem, the prom will be able to carry the improved rail-guns just as easily as the vulture/centurion/valk.
I believe the problem with the prom lies in its maneuverability. At present, the Skycommand prom flies like a medium/light fighter, but is still armored like a heavy. Other ship variants sacrifice something for their advantages; the Valk Rune can carry more cargo, but is slower, less maneuverable, and has less hull than the Vengeance and IDF. The Vengeance and IDF are faster and more maneuverable, but can carry next to no cargo. The Centurion is fast and insanely maneuverable, but has a tissue-paper thin hull. The Corvus vulture is very fast, but has a massive drain. No such give and take exists in the current prom. I would like to see the versions of the prom tweaked to fall more in line with specific roles.
The Skycommand should stay as maneuverable as it is, but it should have a greatly reduced cargo capacity and hull. It should be an escort ship or a heavy fighter.
Another version should sacrifice maneuverability for increased amour. This is the 'tank' version, it can take a pounding, but can't fly toe-to-toe with a light fighter.
Another version should sacrifice maneuverability and amour for increased cargo space.
I believe the problem with the prom lies in its maneuverability. At present, the Skycommand prom flies like a medium/light fighter, but is still armored like a heavy. Other ship variants sacrifice something for their advantages; the Valk Rune can carry more cargo, but is slower, less maneuverable, and has less hull than the Vengeance and IDF. The Vengeance and IDF are faster and more maneuverable, but can carry next to no cargo. The Centurion is fast and insanely maneuverable, but has a tissue-paper thin hull. The Corvus vulture is very fast, but has a massive drain. No such give and take exists in the current prom. I would like to see the versions of the prom tweaked to fall more in line with specific roles.
The Skycommand should stay as maneuverable as it is, but it should have a greatly reduced cargo capacity and hull. It should be an escort ship or a heavy fighter.
Another version should sacrifice maneuverability for increased amour. This is the 'tank' version, it can take a pounding, but can't fly toe-to-toe with a light fighter.
Another version should sacrifice maneuverability and amour for increased cargo space.
CP, I know really well why it's easier to hit a Hog, my point is more that it's insane that a 21K armored ship is a lot harder to hit than one that has barely 10K armor. armor is there to offset agility. and going after a prom with a queenie-gun? man you have balls. I thought I was mad using rails against a rev C. :-)
and for the rest of it, tram says it well, we're always dealing with one ship. and not a ship that's slightly better than the rest, but we seem to always end up with one ship that is pretty much unbeatable. I personally don't really care if it's called a Valk, a Prom, or a Furie, but I do care about it when I cease going into combat when I see a ship, no matter the pilot. today I'll even fight an SVG with rails, I have a chance. against the SC? no, I don't. and yes, I've tried this against the same pilot. over and over and over again.
some people have actually tried this over and over again and seen the difference ships make. telling us to shut up isn't helping. listen to Spellcast, he had some very good ideas. make ships usable, all of them, make them have roles and reasons for being there. all of them. make them fear something, and eat something, all of them. that's what combat is about. not "todays ship and layout".
and for the rest of it, tram says it well, we're always dealing with one ship. and not a ship that's slightly better than the rest, but we seem to always end up with one ship that is pretty much unbeatable. I personally don't really care if it's called a Valk, a Prom, or a Furie, but I do care about it when I cease going into combat when I see a ship, no matter the pilot. today I'll even fight an SVG with rails, I have a chance. against the SC? no, I don't. and yes, I've tried this against the same pilot. over and over and over again.
some people have actually tried this over and over again and seen the difference ships make. telling us to shut up isn't helping. listen to Spellcast, he had some very good ideas. make ships usable, all of them, make them have roles and reasons for being there. all of them. make them fear something, and eat something, all of them. that's what combat is about. not "todays ship and layout".
/me sacrifices amour to simondearsley
Actually, I think this is a good idea. Also, give the variants names like the Valk's variants have.
Hydra Prometheus: (MKIV):
Lowered hull, lowered maneuver, 3L, 0S ports.
SkyCommand Prometheus (MKIII):
decreased hull (by 3000 or so)
Triumvirate Prometheus (MKII):
Lowered maneuver, increased hull (by 2000)
Dominion Prometheus (MKI):
Lowered hull, lowered maneuver, increased cargo.
Actually, I think this is a good idea. Also, give the variants names like the Valk's variants have.
Hydra Prometheus: (MKIV):
Lowered hull, lowered maneuver, 3L, 0S ports.
SkyCommand Prometheus (MKIII):
decreased hull (by 3000 or so)
Triumvirate Prometheus (MKII):
Lowered maneuver, increased hull (by 2000)
Dominion Prometheus (MKI):
Lowered hull, lowered maneuver, increased cargo.
id say knock the skycommand down to 15000, but other than that I agree. I say 15000 to bring it more in line with the fighters its on par with manuevering against. Currently, the next fighter ship in line with that armor is the orion hornet with 13000 (which is worthless anyways) after that i think you have a valk thats over 10000 (not sure im not itani) and the one vulture with 9800
Prom looks like a heavy but has the armament of a medium... which in itself promotes the problem... it is so big that without the armor and moderate agility it will not survive since its possible weaponslayout is very beneath optimal powerstandards.
I have not yet flown a prom so I do not know how it flies(bit to low in licencelevels). But please whatever you do do not nerf it back down to the target it was. It took a very talented or crazy pilot to escape even from the simplest of ships. Beef up the hornet so that it 4 small ports can be geared towards fihting the prom. Once that is done, look at how the hornet is able to beat a regular prom and how the special hornet is able to beat the skycommand prom. With these characteristics in the back of your mind tune down the prom somewhat in moderate steps. Please for the love of god don't make it into a hit with the big nerfstick... Since that happened once already, and seeing that happen again will be frustrating. Then look at how the light fighters are able to take down a hornet... it is a big target and should be easier to hit. Maybe the rail can be used very effectively for these ships... rendering a light ship as a counter for the medium ship rendering it as a counter for the heavy while these render a counter for the light. which forms a nice cycle.
And please do not get rid of the gauss and the agt, they are one of the only real options on a medium or heavy ship. Make it however have a big influence on the light ships, so that they can't fly circles around all the other ships...
And please, decide on the valk. Either it will be a weaponsplatform like the hornet but then you can not expect the agility to be on par with the agility of a cent. but rather a bit better then the agility of a quad rocket layout hornet and a tiny bit worse then a double flare serco guardian. If you want to see it as being an agile dogfighter then running 1 rocket and the rest simple energyweapons, it should have the same if not a slightly better agility as the vulture(1 rocket + 1 energy) but worse then a energy or rocket cent. But don't expect it to fly like a cent with 3 rockets, since that would be unlogical.
<rant>
PS: or add a 3th porttype called the mediumports and change the small port rocket and small port autoaimweapons and the gatling cannon (!= AGT) to this porttype. Then give the cent 1 small, the vult 1 small 1 medium, the valk 1 med 2 small, the special cent 2 small (orion-ibg) and create a cent with 1 med as another special,. the wraith as a small+ med + large. the atlas 1 med + 1 large, the warthog as a small + large, the prom as 2 med + 1 large. the centaur 1 med + 2 large. the rag as 3 med + 2 large And the hornet as 2 small + 2 med or maybe even 1 small and 3 med. Since really autoaim + proximity weapons are from an entire different class then any of the other normal(contact) weapons. But this is probably more work then it is worth, so let's just forget about this and go on in small increments trying to balance each loadout.
</rant>
cheers
I have not yet flown a prom so I do not know how it flies(bit to low in licencelevels). But please whatever you do do not nerf it back down to the target it was. It took a very talented or crazy pilot to escape even from the simplest of ships. Beef up the hornet so that it 4 small ports can be geared towards fihting the prom. Once that is done, look at how the hornet is able to beat a regular prom and how the special hornet is able to beat the skycommand prom. With these characteristics in the back of your mind tune down the prom somewhat in moderate steps. Please for the love of god don't make it into a hit with the big nerfstick... Since that happened once already, and seeing that happen again will be frustrating. Then look at how the light fighters are able to take down a hornet... it is a big target and should be easier to hit. Maybe the rail can be used very effectively for these ships... rendering a light ship as a counter for the medium ship rendering it as a counter for the heavy while these render a counter for the light. which forms a nice cycle.
And please do not get rid of the gauss and the agt, they are one of the only real options on a medium or heavy ship. Make it however have a big influence on the light ships, so that they can't fly circles around all the other ships...
And please, decide on the valk. Either it will be a weaponsplatform like the hornet but then you can not expect the agility to be on par with the agility of a cent. but rather a bit better then the agility of a quad rocket layout hornet and a tiny bit worse then a double flare serco guardian. If you want to see it as being an agile dogfighter then running 1 rocket and the rest simple energyweapons, it should have the same if not a slightly better agility as the vulture(1 rocket + 1 energy) but worse then a energy or rocket cent. But don't expect it to fly like a cent with 3 rockets, since that would be unlogical.
<rant>
PS: or add a 3th porttype called the mediumports and change the small port rocket and small port autoaimweapons and the gatling cannon (!= AGT) to this porttype. Then give the cent 1 small, the vult 1 small 1 medium, the valk 1 med 2 small, the special cent 2 small (orion-ibg) and create a cent with 1 med as another special,. the wraith as a small+ med + large. the atlas 1 med + 1 large, the warthog as a small + large, the prom as 2 med + 1 large. the centaur 1 med + 2 large. the rag as 3 med + 2 large And the hornet as 2 small + 2 med or maybe even 1 small and 3 med. Since really autoaim + proximity weapons are from an entire different class then any of the other normal(contact) weapons. But this is probably more work then it is worth, so let's just forget about this and go on in small increments trying to balance each loadout.
</rant>
cheers
with Valkyries, you get the Vengance with 11600 armor and the Vigilant with 11000 armor.
http://www.vo-gate.com/mediawiki/index.php/Ships:Valkyrie
http://www.vo-gate.com/mediawiki/index.php/Ships:Valkyrie
Renagade, please refrain from posting your 'ideas' when you have no direct experience with the topic at hand.
IMHO the Valk and its variants are already well balanced against the other light fighters. I see more variation in light combat ships now than I ever have before. Once the factions are properly integrated, I think we will have the light fighters well sorted.
All that remains are the medium and heavies.
IMHO the Valk and its variants are already well balanced against the other light fighters. I see more variation in light combat ships now than I ever have before. Once the factions are properly integrated, I think we will have the light fighters well sorted.
All that remains are the medium and heavies.
I gotta agree with the guys that are saying we need to create niches for each ship to fit into, and trim each ship to fit that niche. Each ship has to have its strengths and its vulnerabilities. Renegade's last post put it pretty well...
Anybody ever see the cover art on the box for Battlefield 1942? On the back of it, they've got this circle of various weaponry & vehicles... what each one takes out. Thing is, it's circular... e.g.: the fighter takes out the bomber, the bomber takes out the tank, the tank takes out the anti-aircraft guns, the AA guns take out the fighter. This isn't to say that this should be the case *every* time (I can see the fighter making a strafing run on the AA guns), but it sure ought to be skewed towards one side winning.
Anybody ever see the cover art on the box for Battlefield 1942? On the back of it, they've got this circle of various weaponry & vehicles... what each one takes out. Thing is, it's circular... e.g.: the fighter takes out the bomber, the bomber takes out the tank, the tank takes out the anti-aircraft guns, the AA guns take out the fighter. This isn't to say that this should be the case *every* time (I can see the fighter making a strafing run on the AA guns), but it sure ought to be skewed towards one side winning.
Paedric :
I have made a suggestion in my original post. Did ctishman read it and comment on it?
I have made a suggestion in my original post. Did ctishman read it and comment on it?
Fearing I'd missed something big, I went back and re-read your original post. The only suggestion I could glean was:
"You need balance to make the ships diverse, not a food chain."
While true, it's hardly specific enough to call a suggestion. If that's not the suggestion you had in mind, by all means point me to the correct one.
"You need balance to make the ships diverse, not a food chain."
While true, it's hardly specific enough to call a suggestion. If that's not the suggestion you had in mind, by all means point me to the correct one.
I dunno... I think food chain means that one fighter can beat the next, and that fighter can beat the next, and the last fighter in the line can beat the first. I dunno. That's not really how Vendetta works in the first place.
Daikaze: I knew what passage softy2 was referring to so please leave off with the "use the search feature" comments. What I was asking softy2 to explain was how this constituted a flame. IMO ctishman did not flame softy2. He(?) was simply requesting that softy2 be patient. If you see a flame there, you are reading more into it than there is.
Maybe I made that a little too cut and dry, CrippledPidgeon. I had elaborated, realized I was ranting and raving a little too much, and trimmed the post. Apparently I trimmed it too much.
That food chain isn't set in stone... in other words, player skill (and luck, for that matter) comes into play. To continue my analogy, that fighter can strafe the AA emplacement, and take out the guns. The AA guns could (technically) fire at the tank, and either catch the tank commander sticking his head out, or a lucky round might make it in the driver's sight, ricochet around, and take out the driver.
I think the same concept (can be)/(should be) applied to VO. Take the Prom, for example. Supposed to be a heavy fighter/bomber, right? It's probably shouldn't be maneuverable, so a lighter fighter should be able to dance around it. On the other hand, a light fighter isn't going to want to get in front of it, where a heavy fighter's going to be able to bring it's relatively overwhelming ordinace to bear on it. The skill & strategy of each pilot will determine whether that'll happen or not... whether it's a multiship fight, etc.
For another example, take my TPG Atlas X that I'm so fond of. It's pretty obviously built for speed & cargo. I won't be fighting off pirates in it, however. Not saying that I couldn't, if I was good enough, but I'm not... my skill isn't great enough to overcome the deficiencies.
Understand what I'm saying now?
P.S.: I'm not saying this is easy to set up, either... it's a delicate balance. I'm fairly confident the dev's will find a balance, so I'm willing to wait around for them to do so. If it was easy, we wouldn't be having this discussion. ;o)
That food chain isn't set in stone... in other words, player skill (and luck, for that matter) comes into play. To continue my analogy, that fighter can strafe the AA emplacement, and take out the guns. The AA guns could (technically) fire at the tank, and either catch the tank commander sticking his head out, or a lucky round might make it in the driver's sight, ricochet around, and take out the driver.
I think the same concept (can be)/(should be) applied to VO. Take the Prom, for example. Supposed to be a heavy fighter/bomber, right? It's probably shouldn't be maneuverable, so a lighter fighter should be able to dance around it. On the other hand, a light fighter isn't going to want to get in front of it, where a heavy fighter's going to be able to bring it's relatively overwhelming ordinace to bear on it. The skill & strategy of each pilot will determine whether that'll happen or not... whether it's a multiship fight, etc.
For another example, take my TPG Atlas X that I'm so fond of. It's pretty obviously built for speed & cargo. I won't be fighting off pirates in it, however. Not saying that I couldn't, if I was good enough, but I'm not... my skill isn't great enough to overcome the deficiencies.
Understand what I'm saying now?
P.S.: I'm not saying this is easy to set up, either... it's a delicate balance. I'm fairly confident the dev's will find a balance, so I'm willing to wait around for them to do so. If it was easy, we wouldn't be having this discussion. ;o)
Many analogies have been made between a tank and the prom.
Lets be clear, a tank is nowhere near as multi-dimensional as the prom is.
And its frustrating that I either have to choose specialized ships to beat a prom, or get another prom, while the prom meets just about every role (note that with the resurgence of rockets it currently makes a fine pirate ship)
Martin and I tried testing the SVG against the prom (using N3's, N2's, Gausses on the SVG, and AGT+flares on the prom). We performed softy's experiment, switching between light fighter and prom. Each playing each role twice. We then had
a few SVG-SVG and Prom-Prom matches.
The results were very interesting.
The AGT-flares prom never lost, nor did it ever drop below 75%, it simply charged, and finished off the SVG. (I tried many strategies to evade this, but he and I were able to dodge N3's easily at any distance. The only way to make use of the prom's size is to flank it at close range, which is nearly suicidal, though its possible to get lucky and drop them 8-9%)
In the SVG-SVG matches I won, and in the Prom-Prom matches, I also won.
So clearly, something is up here. The percentages at the end of the SVG-Prom fights were so predictable, that I don't think player skill even entered into it.
The Prom allows one to both "aim" AGT and aim flares at the same time, requiring 2 forms of dodging, which are not easily combinable.
Dodging AGT is a matter of changing direction a lot, but against flares, if you try to dodge the AGT, you make yourself a target.
To compare this to the valk, N3+flares, it requires 2 forms of aiming, that do not mesh. You can't fire N3's at your target AND fire a flare. You have to use 1 or the other.
The prom is, simply, too versatile, while requiring so little skill of the user as to make it ruin a skillbased game.
EDIT: it also just occurred to me, that Incarnate mentioned that the balance testing for the new flares was in no small degree based on his battles with a1k0n.
While I greatly respect their opinions, I am a little disturbed that based on these battles the weapons were considered balanced.
Not insulting your ability guys, just wondering how much you've gotten to PvP against the player population recently.
Lets be clear, a tank is nowhere near as multi-dimensional as the prom is.
And its frustrating that I either have to choose specialized ships to beat a prom, or get another prom, while the prom meets just about every role (note that with the resurgence of rockets it currently makes a fine pirate ship)
Martin and I tried testing the SVG against the prom (using N3's, N2's, Gausses on the SVG, and AGT+flares on the prom). We performed softy's experiment, switching between light fighter and prom. Each playing each role twice. We then had
a few SVG-SVG and Prom-Prom matches.
The results were very interesting.
The AGT-flares prom never lost, nor did it ever drop below 75%, it simply charged, and finished off the SVG. (I tried many strategies to evade this, but he and I were able to dodge N3's easily at any distance. The only way to make use of the prom's size is to flank it at close range, which is nearly suicidal, though its possible to get lucky and drop them 8-9%)
In the SVG-SVG matches I won, and in the Prom-Prom matches, I also won.
So clearly, something is up here. The percentages at the end of the SVG-Prom fights were so predictable, that I don't think player skill even entered into it.
The Prom allows one to both "aim" AGT and aim flares at the same time, requiring 2 forms of dodging, which are not easily combinable.
Dodging AGT is a matter of changing direction a lot, but against flares, if you try to dodge the AGT, you make yourself a target.
To compare this to the valk, N3+flares, it requires 2 forms of aiming, that do not mesh. You can't fire N3's at your target AND fire a flare. You have to use 1 or the other.
The prom is, simply, too versatile, while requiring so little skill of the user as to make it ruin a skillbased game.
EDIT: it also just occurred to me, that Incarnate mentioned that the balance testing for the new flares was in no small degree based on his battles with a1k0n.
While I greatly respect their opinions, I am a little disturbed that based on these battles the weapons were considered balanced.
Not insulting your ability guys, just wondering how much you've gotten to PvP against the player population recently.
simon where was I wrong with the assessment of the situation?
tell me and I can make a more informed statement.
Besides I think we should just leave the idea of levels giving you something better. They give you something different, which can be used in a different manner to spice it a bit up. Since if you really want to make it leveldependenat then you should actually make it so that for every level you have a light- medium - heavy that is well balanced with each other but unbalanced agaisnt the ones above and beneath. Ack I just don't know :(
tell me and I can make a more informed statement.
Besides I think we should just leave the idea of levels giving you something better. They give you something different, which can be used in a different manner to spice it a bit up. Since if you really want to make it leveldependenat then you should actually make it so that for every level you have a light- medium - heavy that is well balanced with each other but unbalanced agaisnt the ones above and beneath. Ack I just don't know :(
Ctishman :
Read shape's post. I advocated an experiment to show the prom is overpowered. YOu must have missed it completely.
Read shape's post. I advocated an experiment to show the prom is overpowered. YOu must have missed it completely.