[Deleted, I was pissed off]

The current situation of combat in vendetta is in bad shape. You have two options, get a skycommand with a gt and rockets, or die. This is about as engaging as watching paint dry. Im sure theres lots of you who will respond with various things, saying I have to adapt, or saying I have to fly a heavy ship, whatever. To be perfectly honest i want the uber valk/n3 era back. It was immensely more entertaining, as you actually had to aim. As it is its just grab a prom, turbo towards them, fire, reload, repeat. Why would anyone use anything other that rockets and an agt anymore? Take the agt, nice damage, high rate of fire, insane autoaim, and its weight doesnt effect the ships its normally on. Then add in the flares, etc, no energy usage, huge damage, promiximity, and quite fast. There should be no possible way of getting a one hit kill in my opinion. And all this autoaim and proximity crap needs to go, including gauss.

To add injury to insult, most proms are now triflare. The little aiming that was left to do with AGT is now gone. Its now turbo, ram, run, repair, repeat. Unfortunately, the prom also still has insane thrust and top spead, and there is no chance to ever catch it either. Someone will bring up how great flares are against heavy ships, but unfortunately my valk weighs 6000kg with 3 flares and its about as agile as a centaur.

I'm somewhat inclined to agree...it's awfully difficult to beat an agt prom with a light ship now (at least for an average pvp-er like me). A vult, say, can be kept at a distance of about 195-230m by the agts, at which distance it's terribly hard to be accurate with a weapon like a neut or a posi. On the rare occasion that one is able to get close enough to get a few good hits, it barely puts a dent in the prom's armor AND you become exposed to the flares, which wipe out a vult pretty quickly. But I don't really think any changes need to be made, besides perhaps slowing the prom down a bit.

In the end, it all comes down to ability and weapon choice, and I personally have the feeling that a good pilot using rails in a light ship might be able to make quick work of such a prom, as it is a big target and a rail fighter can operate well out of the agts' killing range.

if you want to beat a prom, don't take it head on, if you look around there are skilled players who don't engage the proms, which is frustrating because the agt is useless at medium range, but the N3s are plenty good for whittling down health, Look you got the prom stats reduced, I've been beaten, I've seen other proms beaten, its dooable, now go figure it out. Obviously attacking a large ship at close range when its got bigger guns is a bad idea, so don't, you have speed use it, else stop crying please.

Im gonna have to back up tramshed here. A good pilot in a prom is currently near unbeatable. The only times i've killed good pilots in proms are when we've ganged up on them. And even then one or two of us are usually destroyed before the prom. Now whats even scarier are two good pilots in proms. Virtually unbeatable by anything short of overwhelming them. I would agree with Spellcast's post in the suggestion forums suggesting a slight decrease in thrust of the prom to make it a bit less manuverable and more vulnerable to long range fire. That and the valk needs quite a thrust increase, but that's not the topic of this thread. All things considered though, im sure the devs arent done with the prom quite yet, and im confident they'll set things right in due time.

The issue that is that there arent enough viable tactics for the latrge ships to use.

I can't deny that the ship is rather fast for its size. However the ship is easy to hit and rockets are dogeable.

Besides not to long ago the game was set up where you had to fly a fast light ship. Now it is either fly a fast ship with guass or fly a heavy ship with rockets and/or an AGT.

The balance won't be in the ships but rather the weapons. Eventually we will get anti-missle equipment as well as more weapons to target faster ships.

As it currently stands the Cent Rev C and the IBG are barely within visible limits when flown at full capacity when you consider the frame rates and such so ships need to be able to move at a high enough rate of speed to help keep them visible. There are also people who willhave trouble allowing their eyes to focus to veiw the ship properly.

So the people who fly fast ships will complain about the heavy ships and the people who fly the heavy ships will typically complain about light ships.

The AGT is nice weapon that requires almost no aiming. This is another weapon built to deal with the fast ships. I am not a fan of it but it is nice to have when fighting light ships.

IMO the mass of all ships should be increased and then the gauss and AGT should be removed rockets would need a slight damage decrease since things are less mobile. The Plasma Devastator should stay though. No an issue will be that the railgun will become used a lot since targets will be easier to hit. So... This would mean that people will shout for the nerfing of the railgun. An energy increase would be the best option but a damage decrease and a large version would likely solve the issue as well.

1 hit kills should be possible against the barely armored light ships with enough firepower. As it stands the rocket technique requires skill to use. W/o the rocket method it would be AGT only since the Dev moves a bit to slow to hit the faster ships.

Also I did say that the thread title wouldnt help the idea. This title is much better.

Oh and as it has been said before... Stay out of the 1vs1 balance concept. Ships weren't designed to be fully effective against another type of ship.

then why bother flying anything else? if you can be easily beaten by a heavy ship in a light ship, why bother with the light ship? If we are going the route where this ship is inherently better than all the others, and this weapon combo is inherently better than all the others, why even have ship and weapon variants at all? Linear progression in this game will kill it.
Also Ive flown the other heavy ships against the prom, and thier armor lets them last a bit longer, but without the same weapons loadout, they really have no chance, since none of them are near as manueverable as the prom, and because of that, cant dodge the agt or the rockets. Dual gauss is truly no match for a flareagt prom either.

so perhaps the agt could have its autoaim radius reduced or do less damage!

Maybe the current small, middle big ships isnt where it ends, what about when player controlled cap ship starts, are we all going to cry nerf it. yes, no matter what is supposed best, there is always this cry, deal with it.

What we need is a better faction system, so everyone cannot fly a prom/valk/cent/centaur/whateverisuberatthetime

Stop crying nerf!

[edit]

An albiet *skilled* pilot (you know who you are) took my 2x flare + AGT prom from me in a valk(I think he was 2x nt3 + flare), why cant you?

Ok I had enough of patiently waiting for the devs to fix it before talking about the prom.

There are enough threads about the proms in this forums to tell you something is really really wrong. People play this game to *have fun*. And clearly people are not having fun right now. Please don't ask them to stop whining, because if they don't how does the devs KNOW something is wrong?

DOn't tell me things like "oh the prom is the best ship, but others have its place so the other ships will still be used " : It's a 1 player 1 ship game, people WILL fly the best ship. You need balance to make the ships diverse, not a food chain.

Oh yeah, no anecdotal evidence about "so-so killed my prom in such and such". Do some statistics : get 2 pilots with equal ability and have them fly against each other light ships vs prom (choose your favourite setup), swap ships, do it 5 times. What is the score?

I pay to play this game to have fun, not to be aggravated. And this inbalance is aggravating members of my guild (which is the only reason I am staying and being patient because they are good sports about it so far). and that is getting to me now. But I keep questioning why am I paying 10 bucks to get mad instead of having a good time.

Come on! Isn't it obvious the prom is overpowered? Why are people still defending it?

Cause you suck at pvp yoda :)
j/k i've never even fought u.

Ok, the prom needs a disadvantage. Currently it's a lightfighter with the hitpoints of a tank.

But instead of nerf it how about we "tweak it" (to appease yoda), and improve the rails back to their former glory (obvious sarcasm).

Currently the gun that can actually stay at a distance from the prom and scare it.... wait wait let me rephrase that.
The gun that has the POTENTIAL to scare the prom is the rail. But in order to take down a prom you have to be insanely accurate. I mean 15 ammo???? WHO THOUGHT THAT UP!?!??!? I about cried.

/givemoney Devs 2c

Sorry, im just thinking long term, excuse me.

[Edit]

Look at the back story, the current nation stats, the current lack of serco n00bs, look at the nation description, I actually agree the prom is a little over balanced, we have to have something to encourage players right now to be Serco.

The current faction system (I guess ) is being looked at.

Why Are You Serco?

epadafunk: NO NERFING THE AGT. The prom isn't the only fighter than can mount the AGT, so nerfing that one weapon affects no less than 5 other fighters. Don't forget that the Wraith, Atlas, Centaur, Miner Maud, and my beloved underpowered Warthog can also carry the AGT, so you'd end up screwing those other ships as well.

softy2: I think it's incredibly interesting that we Serco had to put up with the overly uber Valkyrie for months before release, and months after release, but when the Prom is improved, people run out of patience after only what... 1.5 months? Maybe 2?... Please. Stop whining.

And I killed a prom flying a warthog once. They're not completely uber... Although it helped that the guy flying the prom couldn't aim. And yes, people will choose the best ship. Isn't that the reason why 80% of all Itani, plus several Serco were flying Valks in the months after release? You forget that the Valk was so uber (less so with the addition of weapon mass, but ridiculously formidable nonetheless) after release that it was practically suicide to fight it?

Why are people still defending it? Because we know exactly how bad the prom can be (again, this is many months of crappy prom experience talking here), and we'd rather not see it become like it was.

If it's the weak, slow moving, handles-like-a-pregnant-brick Prom that you want, I'm sorry. The game can't just be easy for those hunting the prom. Face it. The Prom has teeth now, so prepare to be bitten.

Perhaps instead of nerfing everything in sight, wouldn't it be a good idea to first bring one or two other ships up to its level first? Balance other fighters so two pilots of equal skill will generally have a 50/50 win/loss ratio against any of them?

I think that the solution to this 'prometheus problem' of which you speak is the un-nerfing of the Railgun. It should be a high-level weapon designed specifically for use on extremely light ships. I'm thinking about the following changes:

Rail MKI
7/7/-/-/-
250Kg
30 shots
900 Damage
(27000 potential damage/magazine)

Rail MKII
9/9/-/-/-
250Kg.
20 shots
1700 Damage
(34000 potential damage/magazine)

Rail MKIII
11/11/-/-/-
150Kg.
20 Shots
2300 Damage
(46000 potential damage/magazine)

Rail Advanced
13/13/-/-/- and 100 PKs
250Kg.
20 Shots
2500 Damage
(50000 potential damage/magazine)

There. I've made it so that a half-decent pilot in a light can completely own any heavy out there again, no matter what they do. Happy?

Oh, and Softy, if you're already fed up with waiting for a fix after less than a month, we've got about eleven months on you for the Guinness Frustrated Waiting record.

Ctishman :

>Oh, and Softy, if you're already fed up with waiting for a fix after less than a month, we've got about eleven months on you for the Guinness Frustrated Waiting record.

Yeah : how many months of those you are paying for it? I am surprised you are/were a moderator for this forums, flaming here.

And, for those who says "quit whining" to me. You are more aggravating than the proms.

Where is this flame of ctishman's that are you refering to softy2? Please point it out because I'm not seeing it.

I am being told to shut up, paedric. So I will shut up now.

hmm. I think the current problem with the Prom is more visible due to the complete imbalance of lighter fighters and the unavaiability of other weaponry.

There is a single energyweapon that is viable for the L port ships, and that is the GT. All others require you to move your ship -as if they were a light fighter- .

The rockets are now somewhat usable again, or at least coming there. They are still imbalanced if you put them on a lighter ship (Warthog fex. ) which means that they still need work.

Currently, I wish the whining would stop about the prometheus, and focus more about the smaller ships and getting them into a fighting situation where they stand against eachother. Right now the Warthog and the Hornet are more or less dead weight.

The hornet is a paperweight. Its weaponry requires quick turning and moving, but it cannot.

The warthog works, with a single neutron. Add more to it, and its poor Spin Torque means that any lighter ship will go in circles around it.

The Vulture still cannot carry the heavier S port weapons, which would be required if it is to stand against the lighter, peskier, centurions.

(I think that might be solved by making the cents slightly lighter (300kg ?) and cutting their thrust and spin torque down to match, while adding 500kg to the vulture, and upping its thrust and spin to match.)

This might put them up as equal against eachother. The Warthog? frankly, it needs more torque. Might do well with a bit more non-turbo thrust as well, but mostly it needs to be able to turn around easily.

After this, we can look at the piss-poor avaiability of weapons for the L-port. Missiles/Swarms? What, they aren't a -weapon- in that sense. Not for combat really.

The Gatling? come on.
Rockets? See the upper "I just get rammmed, Whine whine whine"
Queenbuster? What, its an S port weapon in an L port. It requires that you fly as if it was a small ship, and thats what you folks all -WHINE- about. Stuff that somewhere!
Plasma Devastator? See above.

That leaves the Gatling turret, which you whine because its actually a viable weapon for the L port? oh save us from the weapons!

Adding a bit more artillery for the L port that is actually -useful- will go a -LONG- way to remove the whole "All i see is GT/Flares" . Of course all you see is GT/Flares, Its the only weapons that are viable!

Try it yourself, s port weapons don't match when they require you to track a centurion and dart like it, the pepperguns are -still- a joke at the face of the game. Gauss might do it, but they still require you to move fast and turn.
That leaves rockets or homers. Or perhaps rails, oh wha wha wha. as if that is useful on a prom in the current setup?

And homers, well. How many of you can even say the homers for the S port would do you harm?
... oh. none?

So, before the rockets became useful, people in proms ran with the s ports empty, because adding guns there was more a liability than not having anything there. Now that the sunflares have actually made themselves more useful, people whine about that.

Oh golly.

So, Before you start whining on "nerf the prom" "nerf the GT" look at your frigging -arguments- beforehand.

Once the light ships are useful other than Centurions and Valks, then it might be a time to look at the weaponry for the L port in order to decide wether its just an effect of something, or a real problem.

Currently, there is a single weapon that seems to work for the L port. Crippleds suggestions about homers would make those a good alternative for the L port weapons, and might actually change how heavy ships fly quite a bit. Others ideas about an L port railgun (erm. right. ) or scatterfire missiles seem to also bear some weight, however, what is there right now, seems to clearly -not- cut it.

Suggested improvment for the Gatling Cannon:

Velocity 210m/s
Damage: 600
Larger radius of spread (0.07 instead of 0.03 ? I don't remember the constant that a1k0n posted. )

No softy2, you are being told to be patient. Vendetta is a work in progress. The game is in flux and we all have to be patient and give constructive critisisms, not rants.

Spider's got a point there, although I still don't know what a Queenbuster is.

Can you point me to Crippled's homer suggestion? I want to read it.